Subject: Re: [Fot] Synchros

From: Bill Dentinger via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 15:34:07 -0400

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I too agree that Scott Barr has a grasp and understands what goes on.
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One of my favorites is, "Well, I had to upgrade my brakes, and add disc in =
the rear.  You know.  For safety!"
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Bill Dentinger
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-----Original Message-----
From: Barr, Scott via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: fot <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Mar 31, 2015 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Synchros

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WARNING:  What follows on the present thread is the annual =E2=80=9CGearbox=
es=E2=80=9D discussion.  Allow me to paraphrase and summarize:
=20
 [Please, please, please read this in the fondly amused spirit in which it =
was offered.  I can=E2=80=99t put in enough winky-faces to assure you all t=
hat this is not intended to be snotty or divisive=E2=80=A6]
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[poster #1]  Hey, my stock gearboxes stink and they blow up all the time.  =
What do you guys know about installing a [Datsun/Toyota/Hewland/Allison] tr=
ansmission in place of the cranky old stock stuff?
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[poster #2]  Well, we know they work better, but might be in violation of t=
he rules of your sanctioning body, and are not really in the vintage spirit=
.
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[poster #1]  Yeah, but my gearbox is always broken, and sitting on the trai=
ler is not really in the vintage spirit either. =20
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[poster #2]  Well maybe you shouldn=E2=80=99t have installed that [high-com=
pression head/weber carbs/supercharger/turbo/nitrous] and giant brakes on y=
our obvious cheater-mobile.
  =20
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[Joe Alexander]  Hey guys, why can=E2=80=99t we all just get along.  We=E2=
=80=99re all having fun in our own ways and who the heck cares if someone e=
lse enjoys making their car faster than it was when it was new.  Isn=E2=80=
=99t that arguably as legitimate a pursuit as the piloting of an era-correc=
t car as fast as it can go in its era-correct state?
  =20
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[poster #1 and poster #2]  Yeah, I suppose that=E2=80=99s right.  There=E2=
=80=99s room for everyone in this sport, from the person who likes to run t=
heir era-correct car and replace the trans every weekend, to the person who=
 just likes to see how fast they can make these old crocks go, using everyt=
hing that=E2=80=99s been made and learned over the last 60 years.  [hugs al=
l around]
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Scott B. (unless you think I=E2=80=99m being snotty and divisive, in which =
case, my name is Philbin Potsticker, and I drive an MG TC.  In Ecuador.)
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From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Scott Janzen via=
 Fot
 Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 11:58 AM
 To: Jason Ostrowski
 Cc: FOT
 Subject: Re: [Fot] Synchros
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I agree with Jason - spending the $1,000 +/- for an expert rebuild has resu=
lted in the same survival rate (not long) as the $50-$100 used ones.
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The real cost is in the lost race weekends when the thing blows up on a ver=
y regular basis.
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I run a TR6 box.
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Marty, if you are using this for a Spitfire upgrade you are probably more t=
han fine, but for a GT6 with a developed engine, my advice is give up and m=
ove on, or be prepared to make a paddock swap every other weekend.
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On Mar 31, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Jason Ostrowski via Fot wrote:
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If you must for some reason use a GT6 gearbox:
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If it looks good and everything seems in order I would use it without doubt=
.
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For whatever reason, by comparison I have gotten the most miles out of good=
 old "barn find" unworked gt6 transmissions.
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I've had many of them built by "the best".
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Although It seems contrary to our greater "never be beaten by equipment" ph=
ilosophy...
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The unworked original crappy ones have gone longer (for me) than the "profe=
ssionally serviced" new gear (usuallyTR7) and sychro ones.
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In my own program, since I have to take them out after every race (Third ge=
ar is usually all but toasted), I stopped spending the $ money on the gearb=
ox rebuilds and focused more on finding and using several good older ones.
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I can use the gearbox for the same amount of time for much less $.
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Since I am struggling to survive in this sport of wealthy kings...
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Its nice to SOMETIMES find the cheap way works.
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Note: Friendly Ghost Racing is not responsible for recommending these risky=
 and absurd transmission choices of using a "barn find" unit. We only do th=
ese things because the trans will break soon anyway.
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Cheers!
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Jason Ostrowski
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Friendly Ghost Racing =20
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On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:50 AM, marty via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
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I have a GT6 transmission of unknown history. Visually it looks in really g=
ood shape internally. Am considering doing a refresh with new bearings and =
synchros. I did some reading on the archives and while most of the post are=
 from a while ago I get the impression that the synchros made now (or then =
anyhow) were of poor quality and that the original were much better and if =
you didn't need to change them it was best to leave the old one in place.  =
Thoughts?=20
 =20
 Thanks,
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 Marty
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 _______________________________________________
 [email-masked]
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_______________________________________________
 [email-masked]
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 http://www.fot-racing.com
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_______________________________________________
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Donate:
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<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"background-color:=
 transparent;">I too agree that Scott Barr has a grasp and understands what=
 goes on.</font></div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>One of my favorites is, "Well, I had to upgrade my brakes, and add dis=
c in the rear.&nbsp; You know.&nbsp; For safety!"</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>Bill Dentinger</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div style=3D"color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;"=
>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Barr, Scott via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Mar 31, 2015 1:26 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Synchros<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1.2_51fc354f-9273-4aab-8ce2-2e97f4dd3756">
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;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1F497D;} .aolReplacedBody .MsoChpDefault =
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on1 {page:WordSection1;}</style>

<div class=3D"aolReplacedBody" lang=3D"EN-US">=20
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">=20
 =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>WARNING:&nbsp; What follows on t=
he present thread is the annual =E2=80=9CGearboxes=E2=80=9D discussion.&nbs=
p; Allow me to paraphrase and summarize:<br>
 <br>
 [Please, please, please read this in the fondly amused spirit in which it =
was offered.&nbsp; I can=E2=80=99t put in enough winky-faces to assure you =
all that this is not intended to be snotty or divisive=E2=80=A6]</span></di=
v>
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 =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp; </span></div>
=20
 =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>[poster #1] &nbsp;Hey, my stock =
gearboxes stink and they blow up all the time.&nbsp; What do you guys know =
about installing a [Datsun/Toyota/Hewland/Allison] transmission in place of=
 the cranky old stock stuff?</span></div>
=20
 =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>[poster #2] &nbsp;Well, we know =
they work better, but might be in violation of the rules of your sanctionin=
g body, and are not really in the vintage spirit.</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>[poster #1]&nbsp; Yeah, but my g=
earbox is always broken, and sitting on the trailer is not really in the vi=
ntage spirit either.&nbsp; <br>
 <br>
 </span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>[poster #2]&nbsp; Well maybe you=
 shouldn=E2=80=99t have installed that [high-compression head/weber carbs/s=
upercharger/turbo/nitrous] and giant brakes on your obvious cheater-mobile.=
</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>[Joe Alexander]&nbsp; Hey guys, =
why can=E2=80=99t we all just get along.&nbsp; We=E2=80=99re all having fun=
 in our own ways and who the heck cares if someone else enjoys making their=
 car faster than it was when it was new.&nbsp; Isn=E2=80=99t that arguably =
as legitimate a pursuit as the piloting of an era-correct car as fast as it=
 can go in its era-correct state?</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp; </span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>[poster #1 and poster #2]&nbsp; =
Yeah, I suppose that=E2=80=99s right.&nbsp; There=E2=80=99s room for everyo=
ne in this sport, from the person who likes to run their era-correct car an=
d replace the trans every weekend, to the person who just likes to see how =
fast they can make these old crocks go, using everything that=E2=80=99s bee=
n made and learned over the last 60 years.&nbsp; [hugs all around]</span></=
div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>Scott B. (unless you think I=E2=
=80=99m being snotty and divisive, in which case, my name is Philbin Potsti=
cker, and I drive an MG TC.&nbsp; In Ecuador.)</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'>&nbsp;</span></div>
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<div>=20
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<div style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none non=
e; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt=
 0in 0in;">=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D'font-family: "Calibri",sans-seri=
f; font-size: 11pt;'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-family: "Calibri",=
sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'> Fot [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net?">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Ja=
nzen via Fot<br>
 <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 31, 2015 11:58 AM<br>
 <b>To:</b> Jason Ostrowski<br>
 <b>Cc:</b> FOT<br>
 <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Synchros</span></div>
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   </div>
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  </div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with Jason - spending the $1,000 +/- for a=
n expert rebuild has resulted in the same survival rate (not long) as the $=
50-$100 used ones.</div>
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<div>=20
  =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal">The real cost is in the lost race weekends when th=
e thing blows up on a very regular basis.</div>
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  </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">I run a TR6 box.</div>
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  </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Marty, if you are using this for a Spitfire upgrad=
e you are probably more than fine, but for a GT6 with a developed engine, m=
y advice is give up and move on, or be prepared to make a paddock swap ever=
y other weekend.</div>
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  </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>
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<div>=20
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mar 31, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Jason Ostrowski via =
Fot wrote:</div>
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    </div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>
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<div>=20
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">If you must for some reason use a GT6 gearbox:</di=
v>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">If it looks good and everything seems in order I w=
ould use it without doubt.</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">For whatever reason, by comparison I have gotten t=
he most miles out of good old "barn find" unworked gt6 transmissions.</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">I've had many of them built by "the best".</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Although It seems contrary to our greater "never b=
e beaten by equipment" philosophy...</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">The unworked original crappy ones have gone longer=
 (for me) than the "professionally serviced" new gear (usuallyTR7)&nbsp;and=
 sychro ones.</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
     =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal">In my own program, since I have to take them out a=
fter every race (Third gear is usually all but toasted), I stopped spending=
 the $ money on the gearbox rebuilds and focused more on finding and using =
several good older ones.</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">I can use the gearbox for the same amount of time =
for much less $.</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Since I am struggling to survive in this sport of =
wealthy kings...</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Its nice to SOMETIMES find the cheap way works.</d=
iv>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Note: Friendly Ghost Racing is not responsible for=
 recommending these risky and absurd transmission choices of using a "barn =
find"&nbsp;unit. We only do these things because the trans will break soon =
anyway.</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers!</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Jason Ostrowski</div>
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     </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Friendly Ghost Racing&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
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     </div>
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    </div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 7:50 AM, marty via Fot &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
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      <blockquote style=3D"border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; border-s=
tyle: none none none solid; border-color: currentColor currentColor current=
Color rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-right: 0in; marg=
in-left: 4.8pt;">=20
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<div>=20
       =20
<div>=20
        =20
<div class=3D"MsoNormal">I have a GT6 transmission of unknown history. Visu=
ally it looks in really good shape internally. Am considering&nbsp;doing a =
refresh with new bearings and synchros. I did some reading on the archives =
and while most of the post are from a while ago I get the impression that t=
he synchros made now (or then anyhow) were of poor quality and that the ori=
ginal were much better and if you didn't need to change them it was best to=
 leave&nbsp;the old one in place.&nbsp; Thoughts?&nbsp;<br>
 &nbsp;<br>
 Thanks,<span style=3D"color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
 <span class=3D"hoenzb">&nbsp;</span><br>
 <span class=3D"hoenzb">Marty</span></span></div>
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        </div>
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       </div>
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
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cing.com</a><br>
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