Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 cam help

From: Larry Young via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 17:58:39 -0600

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Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I had computer problems most of last 
week. I have a page on this and an Excel spreadsheet you can download 
(http://tildentechnologies.com/Cams/Tip_DegreeCam.html) It is not 
difficult to do the measurements as Duncan describes.  A Cam Doctor does 
the same thing, but with more accuracy than you need for your purposes.  
You should be able to compare the duration, lift and lobe separation to 
other cams to give a good idea of how it will perform. I think you 
should do this on any cam you install.  I have been surprised by the 
number of screwed up cams I've run across and some of them were from big 
name companies.
  - Larry

On 1/26/2015 8:50 AM, Duncan Charlton via Fot wrote:
> I've obtained cam specs with a dial indicator and a degree wheel, 
> entering the data into Excel.  It's time consuming but not that 
> difficult when theamshaft is in the engine or chucked in a lathe -- 
> after seeing Larry Young's garage setup I realized I could do this 
> manually.  I haven't gotten around to calculating valve train 
> acceleration yet but I was able to plot the curves of an unknown 
> DeLong grind in a Ford 1500 engine and determine how much valve lash 
> to use, which was the goal at the time.  Larry's writings on the 
> Tilden Technologies website are highly useful.
>
> However, these measurements did not tell me "which" DeLong cam I had, 
> ie: its part number, so knowing "which cam" I had (and perhaps 
> therefore whether it was judged by the manufacturer to be better or 
> worse than some other grind) was not going to happen (not to mention 
> that DeLong is long out of business).  But plotting the curve against 
> a Crane cam with a name that put it in the same ballpark ("300 degree" 
> or somesuch) I could see where the differences were -- the Crane cam 
> had greater lift, but the DeLong cam, with less total lift, had more 
> acceleration, opening the valve to a greater degree early on in the 
> curve, so the area under the curve could be close or perhaps even better.
>
> Duncan
>
>
> On 1/26/15 7:35 AM, EDWARD BARNARD via Fot wrote:
>> I would think that someone with a Cam Doctor (Larry Young) could run 
>> them and retrieve the specs for a nominal fee. I bought a Cam Doctor 
>> a few years back but didn't have a computer to dedicate to run it on; 
>> it needed MSDOS. I resold it on Ebay and recovered my cost.
>> -Ed-
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 26, 2015 6:54 AM, Bob Kramer via Fot 
>> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I got some Cams with the #67 car t hat were brand new but unknown 
>> grinds. They were custom grinds and came in Crane Cam boxes/ I sent 
>> them to Crane to run the specs for me; they charges $60.00 each to do 
>> that. They could find no record of the cams in their extensive files. 
>> I don't know what to do with them now that I did that (:
>> Bob Kramer
>>
>> ---- Greg And Alison Blake via Fot <[email-masked] 
>> > I came across a cam with some crazy looking profiles on it today in 
>> a box of spares that came with a TR4a dad and I purchased. It has the 
>> following stamped on it:
>> > C-2781
>> > C285-2
>> > C290-2x6
>> >
>> > Anyone know what this might be?  Profile on the lobes looks 
>> interesting but it also looks like the grinder took a lot of metal 
>> out of the cam to create this grind. It is a very small diameter 
>> shaft now.
>> >
>> > Also in the spares was a Kastner F cam. Anyone run one of these 
>> that can send me the characteristics?  The nose on the lobes of the F 
>> look really broad and rounded.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Greg
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > http://www.fot-racing.com/
>> >
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
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>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> [email-masked]
>
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>

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    Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I had computer problems most of
    last week. I have a page on this and an Excel spreadsheet you can
    download (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tildentechnologies.com/Cams/Tip_DegreeCam.html">http://tildentechnologies.com/Cams/Tip_DegreeCam.html</a>) It
    is not difficult to do the measurements as Duncan describes.  A Cam
    Doctor does the same thing, but with more accuracy than you need for
    your purposes.  You should be able to compare the duration, lift and
    lobe separation to other cams to give a good idea of how it will
    perform. I think you should do this on any cam you install.  I have
    been surprised by the number of screwed up cams I've run across and
    some of them were from big name companies.<br>
     - Larry<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/26/2015 8:50 AM, Duncan Charlton
      via Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:[email-masked]" type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
        http-equiv="Content-Type">
      I've obtained cam specs with a dial indicator and a degree wheel,
      entering the data into Excel.  It's time consuming but not that
      difficult when theamshaft is in the engine or chucked in a lathe
      -- after seeing Larry Young's garage setup I realized I could do
      this manually.  I haven't gotten around to calculating valve train
      acceleration yet but I was able to plot the curves of an unknown
      DeLong grind in a Ford 1500 engine and determine how much valve
      lash to use, which was the goal at the time.  Larry's writings on
      the Tilden Technologies website are highly useful.<br>
      <br>
      However, these measurements did not tell me "which" DeLong cam I
      had, ie: its part number, so knowing "which cam" I had (and
      perhaps therefore whether it was judged by the manufacturer to be
      better or worse than some other grind) was not going to happen
      (not to mention that DeLong is long out of business).  But
      plotting the curve against a Crane cam with a name that put it in
      the same ballpark ("300 degree" or somesuch) I could see where the
      differences were -- the Crane cam had greater lift, but the DeLong
      cam, with less total lift, had more acceleration, opening the
      valve to a greater degree early on in the curve, so the area under
      the curve could be close or perhaps even better.<br>
      <br>
      Duncan<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/26/15 7:35 AM, EDWARD BARNARD
        via Fot wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:[email-masked]"
        type="cite">
        <div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
          font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
          Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px">
          <div><span>I would think that someone with a Cam Doctor (Larry
              Young) could run them and retrieve the specs for a nominal
              fee. I bought a Cam Doctor a few years back but didn't
              have a computer to dedicate to run it on; it needed MSDOS.
              I resold it on Ebay and recovered my cost.</span></div>
          <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue,
            Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;
            font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; background-color:
            transparent;"><span>-Ed-</span></div>
          <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;">
            <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
              Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size:
              16px;">
              <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
                Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size:
                16px;">
                <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday,
                    January 26, 2015 6:54 AM, Bob Kramer via Fot <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                      href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>
                    wrote:<br>
                  </font> </div>
                <br>
                <br>
                <div class="y_msg_container">I got some Cams with the
                  #67 car t hat were brand new but unknown grinds. They
                  were custom grinds and came in Crane Cam boxes/ I sent
                  them to Crane to run the specs for me; they charges
                  $60.00 each to do that. They could find no record of
                  the cams in their extensive files. I don't know what
                  to do with them now that I did that (: <br
                    clear="none">
                  Bob Kramer<br clear="none">
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:[email-masked]" shape="rect"
                    ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br
                    clear="none">
                  <br clear="none">
                  ---- Greg And Alison Blake via Fot &lt;<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:[email-masked]" shape="rect"
                    ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;

                  wrote: <br clear="none">
                  &gt; I came across a cam with some crazy looking
                  profiles on it today in a box of spares that came with
                  a TR4a dad and I purchased. It has the following
                  stamped on it:<br clear="none">
                  &gt; C-2781<br clear="none">
                  &gt; C285-2<br clear="none">
                  &gt; C290-2x6<br clear="none">
                  &gt; <br clear="none">
                  &gt; Anyone know what this might be?  Profile on the
                  lobes looks interesting but it also looks like the
                  grinder took a lot of metal out of the cam to create
                  this grind. It is a very small diameter shaft now.<br
                    clear="none">
                  &gt; <br clear="none">
                  &gt; Also in the spares was a Kastner F cam. Anyone
                  run one of these that can send me the
                  characteristics?  The nose on the lobes of the F look
                  really broad and rounded. <br clear="none">
                  &gt; <br clear="none">
                  &gt; Thanks,<br clear="none">
                  &gt; <br clear="none">
                  &gt; Greg<br clear="none">
                  &gt; <br clear="none">
                  &gt; _______________________________________________<br
                    clear="none">
                  &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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