Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Rear Main Oil Seal Options --- UPDATE ---

From: Dan Cronin via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 16:42:03 -0500

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TO ALL WHO RESPONDED AND those who may have had similar thoughts but had =
some one on the list beat them to a response and to those who may =
benefit from the discussion.

I received (on and off lists) around 15 responses to my original query =
concerning trying to re-create the archimedes rear crank scroll on my =
virgin Crower billet steel (4340 chrome moly  that had the scroll area =
ground to 2.500" which was the "standard" in the instructions of the day =
(back in 2007---later revised to 2.525 but too late for me!).  Nearly =
95% of respondents cautioned against applying weld (to include spray =
welding) to accomplish this proposal which would have required a build =
up of a bit over 5/16" in order to machine back the scroll.  When I =
visited the local crankshaft technician he was concerned that the =
hardness of the 4340 CM steel would not allow for proper initial bedding =
/ adhesion.  When I checked with Crower's tech dept. later in the day he =
agreed and indicated that they also applied a low temp. nitride =
treatment to a depth of 3/4 mil. which further hardened the wear =
surfaces of the crank.

 Most replies just suggested I abandon the proposed use of the Viton =
seal and use the original (Nitril) Rover based lip seal, just be very =
careful in it's fitting.  If it is a bit loose, perhaps snip slightly =
one of the seal mating surfaces and make sure the spring is 8" or a hair =
under in connected length and follow the tips in Uncle Jack's Engine =
Building Tips write up with Tonys addendum.
 =20
One interesting suggestion from Don E was to look into Hard Chroming =
that area to get to the desired 2.525" diameter.  The Cower tech. =
thought that a good suggestion but cautioned that who ever did it needed =
to be "good" at it, as getting it applied evenly was the key so as to =
avoid having to apply too much then grind it back down.  I and my =
mechanic continue to look into this option.=20
=20
Another suggestion came from Marcel VM to look into Moss Europe, whom he =
indicated offered the "old lip seal" in both Nitril material and the =
newer Viton material.  I have placed a query to Moss Europe regarding =
this option as the Viton material is somewhat superior long term.  Since =
starting (and stopping) this email I have received from Moss Europe a =
response to my query indicating that they do indeed have both types of =
lip seals available.  Part no. TT1032S is the original Nitril material =
and TT1032SX is the later Viton material.  I have asked for confirmation =
that these seals are for the "scroll-less" kits and for pricing =
information which is yet to arrive back.   Those of you who are in the =
same boat as I (and many others)  may find this a good replacement =
option when you next re-build your motors.

So, if the "X" Viton seal from Moss Europe (wonder if Moss USA could =
import a bunch to make purchase easier?) does work with the (shall I =
call it the intermediate kits) modified crank (without scroll)  and seal =
then that is what I will do.  I may consider having the former scroll =
area hard chromed to the 2.525" diameter as well if it can be done in =
the Detroit Metro Area.

Thanks to all who contributed to this exercise.
Dan C.

On Feb 20, 2015, at 10:40 PM, Dan via Fot <[email-masked] =

2/20
Good Evening All
I Am reaching out to all TR owners for your thoughts and advice =
concerning a decision I will soon need to confront.

Several years ago I went in on a "pool purchase" led by Mordy D and have =
a beautiful billet steel Cower crank---built without the rear scroll and =
to the 2.50" dia. that was used at the time for the then new and =
improved "Lip Seal"  I was planning on using.=20

Fast forward to today and the really new Viton rear seal kit which I =
have purchased and would really like to use now that the engine is =
finally getting built. =20

I am meeting with a couple of crankshaft specialists here in the Detroit =
Metro Area the first of the week to see if they think they can build up =
(with weld) the area that the scroll would have occupied and machine it =
back to match the stock crank configuration in order to use the Viton =
Seal.  This leads me to ask two questions:
1)	Has anyone had this done or heard of it being done and if so any =
cautions or suggestions or lessons learned?

2)	Has anyone tried to use the Viton Seal on a crank that has had =
the scroll machined off and what has been the end result of this =
experiment, or would it be better to just use the now old "lip seal" and =
tighten up the carrier and lip seal and shorten the spring a bit to try =
and grip the 2.50 diameter surface a bit closer.?

Any thoughts, cautions, theories, etc any of you have or could share =
(either via the list or privately) will be most appreciated.  I have a =
lot of cool things going into this motor build and really do not want to =
screw it up doing something I do not fully understand.

Thanks,=20
Dan Cronin
[email-masked] =

http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>

<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive <http://www.team.net/archive>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]>

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html=
 charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" =
content=3D"text/html charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=3Dus-ascii" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#263e0f" class=3D"">TO ALL WHO RESPONDED AND those who may have =
had similar thoughts but had some one on the list beat them to a =
response and to those who may benefit from the =
discussion.</font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#4f7a28" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">I received (on and off =
lists) around 15 responses to my original query concerning trying to =
re-create the archimedes rear crank scroll on my virgin Crower billet =
steel (4340 chrome&nbsp;moly&nbsp; that had the scroll area ground to =
2.500" which was the "standard" in the&nbsp;instructions&nbsp;of the day =
(back in 2007---later revised to 2.525 but too late for me!). =
&nbsp;Nearly 95% of&nbsp;respondents&nbsp;cautioned against applying =
weld (to include spray welding) to accomplish this proposal which would =
have required a build up of a bit over 5/16" in order to machine =
back&nbsp;the scroll. &nbsp;When I visited the local crankshaft =
technician he was concerned that the hardness of the 4340 CM steel would =
not allow for proper initial bedding / adhesion. &nbsp;When I checked =
with Crower's tech dept. later in the day he agreed and indicated that =
they also applied a low temp. nitride treatment to a depth of 3/4 mil. =
which further hardened the wear surfaces of the crank.</font></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;<font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D"">Most&nbsp;replies&nbsp;just suggested I abandon the proposed =
use of the Viton seal and use the original (Nitril) Rover based lip =
seal, just be very careful in it's fitting. &nbsp;If it is a bit loose, =
perhaps snip slightly one of the seal mating surfaces and make sure the =
spring is 8" or a hair under in&nbsp;connected&nbsp;length and follow =
the tips in Uncle Jack's Engine Building Tips write up with =
Tonys&nbsp;addendum.</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">One interesting suggestion from Don E was =
to look into Hard Chroming that area to get to the desired 2.525" =
diameter. &nbsp;The Cower tech. thought that a good suggestion but =
cautioned that who ever did it needed to be "good" at it, as getting it =
applied evenly was the key so as to&nbsp;avoid&nbsp;having to apply too =
much then grind it back down. &nbsp;I and my mechanic continue to look =
into this option.&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">Another suggestion came from Marcel VM to =
look into Moss Europe, whom he indicated offered the "old lip seal" in =
both Nitril material and the newer Viton material. &nbsp;I have placed a =
query to Moss Europe regarding this option as the Viton material is =
somewhat superior long term. &nbsp;Since starting (and stopping) this =
email I have received from Moss Europe a response to my query indicating =
that they do indeed have both types of lip seals available. &nbsp;Part =
no. TT1032S is the original Nitril material and TT1032SX is the later =
Viton material. &nbsp;I have asked for confirmation that these seals are =
for the "scroll-less" kits and for pricing information which is yet to =
arrive back. &nbsp; Those of you who are in the same boat as I (and many =
others) &nbsp;may find this a good replacement option when you next =
re-build your motors.</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">So, if the "X" Viton seal from Moss Europe =
(wonder if Moss USA could&nbsp;import&nbsp;a bunch to make purchase =
easier?) does work with the (shall I call it the intermediate kits) =
modified crank (without scroll) &nbsp;and seal then that is what I will =
do. &nbsp;I may consider having the former scroll area hard chromed to =
the 2.525" diameter as well if it can be done in the Detroit Metro =
Area.</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D"">Thanks to all who contributed to =
this&nbsp;exercise.</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D"">Dan C.<br class=3D""></font><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Feb 20, 2015, at 10:40 PM, Dan via Fot =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=3Dus-ascii" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><font =
class=3D"">2/20</font><div class=3D""><font class=3D"">Good Evening =
All</font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D"">I Am reaching out to =
all TR owners for your thoughts and advice concerning a decision I will =
soon need to confront.</font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D"">Several years =
ago I went in on a "pool purchase" led by Mordy D and have a beautiful =
billet steel Cower crank---built without the rear scroll and to the =
2.50" dia. that was used at the time for the then new and improved "Lip =
Seal" &nbsp;I was planning on using.&nbsp;</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D"">Fast forward to today and the really new =
Viton rear seal kit which I have purchased and would really like to use =
now that the engine is finally getting built. &nbsp;</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D"">I am meeting with a couple of crankshaft =
specialists here in the Detroit Metro Area the first of the week to see =
if they think they can build up (with weld) the area that the scroll =
would have occupied and machine it back to match the stock crank =
configuration in order to use the Viton Seal. &nbsp;This leads me to ask =
two questions:</font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D"">1)<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Has =
anyone had this done or heard of it being done and if so any cautions or =
suggestions or lessons learned?</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
class=3D"">2)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Has anyone tried to use the Viton Seal on a crank that has had =
the scroll machined off and what has been the end result of this =
experiment, or would it be better to just use the now old "lip seal" and =
tighten up the carrier and lip seal and shorten the spring a bit to try =
and grip the 2.50 diameter surface a bit closer.?</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font class=3D"">Any thoughts, cautions, theories, etc any of =
you have or could share (either via the list or privately) will be most =
appreciated. &nbsp;I have a lot of cool things going into this motor =
build and really do not want to screw it up doing something I do not =
fully understand.</font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
class=3D"">Thanks,&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D""><font class=3D"">Dan =
Cronin</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a></font></div></div>______________________=
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