Subject: [Fot] Rear Main Oil Seal Options

From: Dan via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 22:40:04 -0500

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2/20
Good Evening All
I Am reaching out to all TR owners for your thoughts and advice =
concerning a decision I will soon need to confront.

Several years ago I went in on a "pool purchase" led by Mordy D and have =
a beautiful billet steel Cower crank---built without the rear scroll and =
to the 2.50" dia. that was used at the time for the then new and =
improved "Lip Seal"  I was planning on using.=20

Fast forward to today and the really new Viton rear seal kit which I =
have purchased and would really like to use now that the engine is =
finally getting built. =20

I am meeting with a couple of crankshaft specialists here in the Detroit =
Metro Area the first of the week to see if they think they can build up =
(with weld) the area that the scroll would have occupied and machine it =
back to match the stock crank configuration in order to use the Viton =
Seal.  This leads me to ask two questions:
1)	Has anyone had this done or heard of it being done and if so any =
cautions or suggestions or lessons learned?

2)	Has anyone tried to use the Viton Seal on a crank that has had =
the scroll machined off and what has been the end result of this =
experiment, or would it be better to just use the now old "lip seal" and =
tighten up the carrier and lip seal and shorten the spring a bit to try =
and grip the 2.50 diameter surface a bit closer.?

Any thoughts, cautions, theories, etc any of you have or could share =
(either via the list or privately) will be most appreciated.  I have a =
lot of cool things going into this motor build and really do not want to =
screw it up doing something I do not fully understand.

Thanks,=20
Dan Cronin
[email-masked]=

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class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">2/20</font><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">Good Evening =
All</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">I Am =
reaching out to all TR owners for your thoughts and advice concerning a =
decision I will soon need to confront.</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">Several years ago I went =
in on a "pool purchase" led by Mordy D and have a beautiful billet steel =
Cower crank---built without the rear scroll and to the 2.50" dia. that =
was used at the time for the then new and improved "Lip Seal" &nbsp;I =
was planning on using.&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">Fast forward to today and =
the really new Viton rear seal kit which I have purchased and would =
really like to use now that the engine is finally getting built. =
&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D"">I am meeting with a couple of crankshaft specialists here in =
the Detroit Metro Area the first of the week to see if they think they =
can build up (with weld) the area that the scroll would have occupied =
and machine it back to match the stock crank configuration in order to =
use the Viton Seal. &nbsp;This leads me to ask two =
questions:</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D"">1)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Has anyone had this done or heard of it being done and if so any =
cautions or suggestions or lessons learned?</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D"">2)<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Has anyone tried to use the Viton Seal on a crank that has had =
the scroll machined off and what has been the end result of this =
experiment, or would it be better to just use the now old "lip seal" and =
tighten up the carrier and lip seal and shorten the spring a bit to try =
and grip the 2.50 diameter surface a bit closer.?</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D"">Any thoughts, cautions, theories, etc any of you have or =
could share (either via the list or privately) will be most appreciated. =
&nbsp;I have a lot of cool things going into this motor build and really =
do not want to screw it up doing something I do not fully =
understand.</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">Thanks,&nbsp;</font></div><div =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D"">Dan =
Cronin</font></div><div class=3D""><font color=3D"#38571a" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a></font></div></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: [email-masked] via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 07:08:06 -0500

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From: [email-masked] via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 07:09:05 -0500

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From: MadMarx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 13:34:15 +0100

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Hi,

=20

I wouldn=E2=80=99t invest into changing the crank to make the new seal =
version fit.

In your case it would be wise to stay with the lip seal which does fit =
at once.

=20

Cheers

Chris (the inventor of the new seal solution)

=20

Von: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] Im Auftrag von =
[email-masked] via Fot
Gesendet: Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 13:08
An: Dan via Fot
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Rear Main Oil Seal Options

=20

How about  a Speedi Sleeve?

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----
Date: Fri, Feb 20, 2015 10:40 pm
Subject: [Fot] Rear Main Oil Seal Options
[email-masked]>

2/20

Good Evening All

=20

=20

=20

1)         Has anyone had this done or heard of it being done and if so =
any cautions or suggestions or lessons learned?

=20

2)         Has anyone tried to use the Viton Seal on a crank that has =
had the scroll machined off and what has been the end result of this =
experiment, or would it be better to just use the now old "lip seal" and =
tighten up the carrier and lip seal and shorten the spring a bit to try =
and grip the 2.50 diameter surface a bit closer.?

=20

=20

Thanks,=20

Dan Cronin

[email-masked]

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I wouldn=E2=80=99t invest into changing the crank to make the new =
seal version fit.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In your case it would be wise to stay with the lip seal which does =
fit at once.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Chris (the inventor of the new seal solution)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Von:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>Im Auftrag von =
</b>[email-masked] via Fot<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 21. Februar 2015 =
13:08<br><b>An:</b> Dan via Fot<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Rear Main =
Oil Seal Options<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>How about &nbsp;a Speedi =
Sleeve?<br><br>Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from =
Sprint!<o:p></o:p></p><div id=3D"htc_header"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>----- Reply message =
-----<br>From: &quot;Dan via Fot&quot; &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>[email-masked]</span></a><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<br>Date: Fri, Feb 20, 2015 10:40 pm<br>Subject: [Fot] =
Rear Main Oil Seal Options<br>To: &quot;FOT List Triumph&quot; =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>[email-masked]</span></a><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<br>Cc: =
&quot;Triumph List&quot; &lt;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><span =
lang=3DEN-US>[email-masked]</span></a><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#38571A'>2/20</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#38571A'>Good Evening =
All</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#38571A'>I Am reaching out to all TR owners for your =
thoughts and advice concerning a decision I will soon need to =
confront.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#38571A'>Several years ago I went =
in on a &quot;pool purchase&quot; led by Mordy D and have a beautiful =
billet steel Cower crank---built without the rear scroll and to the =
2.50&quot; dia. that was used at the time for the then new and improved =
&quot;Lip Seal&quot; &nbsp;I was planning on =
using.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#38571A'>Fast forward to today =
and the really new Viton rear seal kit which I have purchased and would =
really like to use now that the engine is finally getting built. =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#38571A'>I am meeting with a =
couple of crankshaft specialists here in the Detroit Metro Area the =
first of the week to see if they think they can build up (with weld) the =
area that the scroll would have occupied and machine it back to match =
the stock crank configuration in order to use the Viton Seal. &nbsp;This =
leads me to ask two questions:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#38571A'>1)<span =
class=3Dapple-tab-span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
</span>Has anyone had this done or heard of it being done and if so any =
cautions or suggestions or lessons =
learned?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#38571A'>2)<span =
class=3Dapple-tab-span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
</span>Has anyone tried to use the Viton Seal on a crank that has had =
the scroll machined off and what has been the end result of this =
experiment, or would it be better to just use the now old &quot;lip =
seal&quot; and tighten up the carrier and lip seal and shorten the =
spring a bit to try and grip the 2.50 diameter surface a bit =
closer.?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#38571A'>Any thoughts, cautions, =
theories, etc any of you have or could share (either via the list or =
privately) will be most appreciated. &nbsp;I have a lot of cool things =
going into this motor build and really do not want to screw it up doing =
something I do not fully understand.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#38571A'>Thanks,&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#38571A'>Dan =
Cronin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#38571A'><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><o:p></o:=
p></p></div></div></body></html>
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From: Bob Kramer via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 23:26:00 +0000

So that's how you guys get perfectly sealed engines. I just install them with all the fiddle I can fettle and keep my fingers crossed.

Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

---- fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> The split seals (series Land Rover) work as intended.
Problems are usually resultant from any one or combination of poor quality seals, machining +/- on the 2-piece housing, and lack of concentricity between the housing and housing bore in the block (especially if the block has been align-bored).
The book would say "some degree of fitting may be required". It's a fussy operation, it's easy to screw up the installation but they do work.
Also when I'm done, I fill the cavity behind the rear main with oil, with the block inverted, to check for leaks. It's a lot better to find it on the bench before it goes in the car

Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg And Alison Blake via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: Duncan Charlton <[email-masked]>
Cc: FOT List Triumph <[email-masked]>; Dan <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 23, 2015 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Rear Main Oil Seal Options

I clean followed by smearing top side with RTV. Does not leak but I may have gotten lucky. 

On Feb 21, 2015, at 8:50 PM, Duncan Charlton via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

Have you tried degreasing followed by green (penetrating grade) Loc-Tite?

Ir how about expanding the ends with a hammer and a ball bearing slightly larger than the bore of the tube?
Duncan
(Texas)

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 21, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Tony Drews via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

I agree with Chris on this.  Don't bother welding it, just run theseal that fits it.  I am running that crankshaft in my race TR-4 anduse the Lip Seal that fits it.  If it leaks, it doesn't leak much -I have worse leaks elsewhere so it's a little hard to tell.  Dodrill the extra holes through the rear main parallel to the existingdrain hole to allow more oil to drain back from between the bearing andthe seal.

That reminds me - anyone have any great tips on getting the pushrod tubesin the head to not leak?

Cheers, Tony Drews

At 09:40 PM 2/20/2015, Dan via Fot wrote:

2/20
Good Evening All
I Am reaching out to all TR owners for your thoughts and adviceconcerning a decision I will soon need to confront.

Several years ago I went in on a "pool purchase" led by Mordy Dand have a beautiful billet steel Cower crank---built without the rearscroll and to the 2.50" dia. that was used at the time for the thennew and improved "Lip Seal"  I was planning on using.

Fast forward to today and the really new Viton rear seal kit which I havepurchased and would really like to use now that the engine is finallygetting built.  

I am meeting with a couple of crankshaft specialists here in the DetroitMetro Area the first of the week to see if they think they can build up(with weld) the area that the scroll would have occupied and machine itback to match the stock crank configuration in order to use the VitonSeal.  This leads me to ask two questions:
1)Has anyone had this done or heard of it being done and if so anycautions or suggestions or lessons learned?

2)Has anyone tried to use the Viton Seal on a crank that has had thescroll machined off and what has been the end result of this experiment,or would it be better to just use the now old "lip seal" andtighten up the carrier and lip seal and shorten the spring a bit to tryand grip the 2.50 diameter surface a bit closer.?

Any thoughts, cautions, theories, etc any of you have or could share(either via the list or privately) will be most appreciated.  I havea lot of cool things going into this motor build and really do not wantto screw it up doing something I do not fully understand.

Thanks, 
Dan Cronin
[email-masked]

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From: Yellow04 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 11:15:10 -0500

My first attempt with the split seal leaked a bit, then Ken Gillanders advised to use grease, not RTV in the housing groove that the seal rides in. Never had another issue. Heck, I have even reused the seal over a couple of rebuilds. 

I really like Glen's idea of checking for leaks on the bench, I will be doing that on future TRactor engines I build. Because the puddle of oil under the engine stand is not big enough now...

Henry

> Problems are usually resultant from any one or combination of poor quality
> seals, machining +/- on the 2-piece housing, and lack of concentricity
> between the housing and housing bore in the block (especially if the block
> has been align-bored).
> The book would say "some degree of fitting may be required". It's a fussy
> operation, it's easy to screw up the installation but they do work.
> Also when I'm done, I fill the cavity behind the rear main with oil, with the
> block inverted, to check for leaks. It's a lot better to find it on the bench
> before it goes in the car
> 
> Glen