Subject: Re: [Fot] Do hillclimb conditions increase or decrease TR6 squat?

From: sherry robyn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:21:31 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Bob,
I do have camber adjustment on the rear and that is what I thought I
might adjust for a hillclimb where more weight is on the rear.  I have stiffer
springs (normal height) all the way around, rear sway bar, Koni shocks on rear
(tied into the roll cage), and currently zero degrees rear camber.  I just
wondered if I should set the rear camber for something like one degree
positive for a hillclimb.
 
Jim

________________________________
 From:
Robert M. Lang <[email-masked]>
To: sherry robyn <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Do hillclimb
conditions increase or decrease TR6 squat?

Hi,

I doubt that a hillclimb
would add more squat on acceleration.

The squat on the TR6 is more or less a
feature.

You cannot dial it out with just springs. Well, you can (by running
stupidly stiff springs), but then the car won't handle.

The best thing you
can do is either completely replace the suspension with a better design, like
a Miata rear or maybe a BMW 3-series (or even TVR 2500 / Jag) OR run a better
shock setup that allows you to control the weight transfer...

Or you can live
with the squat. To that end, you SHOULD pay attention to whether you're
hitting the bump stops or not. If so, you def. need either stiffer springs /
bars or you need to learn to NOT "throw" the car around.

regards,
rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Triumph TR6!!            |  This space for rent
Former
NER Solo Chair                          |
Voice:617-253-7438                 
           |  Cell: 339-927-4489
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---

From: sherry robyn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 16:44:21 -0700 (PDT)

Thanks Scott, that's a good thought; I'll give it a try.  The way I picture
it, the TR6 squat is a dynamic thing and not a static thing.  I believe what
you are saying is that if the static camber is, say, one degree more negative
at a prescribed incline, then that would be one more degree in the wrong
direction.  That being said, it still might end up with the same negative
camber over the same period of time even with the weight bias more on the
rear.  That I wouldn't know by the static test.  Jim
________________________________
 From: "Barr, Scott" <[email-masked]>
To: 'sherry robyn' <[email-masked]> 
Cc: 'Robert M. Lang'
<[email-masked]> 
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: [Fot]
Do hillclimb conditions increase or decrease TR6  squat?

Have you tried
jacking the front of the car up to simulate the actual slope of the hills
you'll be racing on to see what it does to the static camber of your car?  I
assume your concern is the weight jacking caused by the slope?

Scott B.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of sherry robyn
Sent: Tuesday,
June 25, 2013 12:22 PM
To: Robert M. Lang
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re:
[Fot] Do hillclimb conditions increase or decrease TR6 squat?

Hi Bob,
I do
have camber adjustment on the rear and that is what I thought I might adjust
for a hillclimb where more weight is on the rear.  I have stiffer springs
(normal height) all the way around, rear sway bar, Koni shocks on rear (tied
into the roll cage), and currently zero degrees rear camber.  I just wondered
if I should set the rear camber for something like one degree positive for a
hillclimb.

Jim

Robert M. Lang
<[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday,
June 25, 2013 10:01 AM
conditions increase or
decrease TR6 squat?

Hi,

I doubt that a hillclimb
would add more squat on
acceleration.

You cannot
dial it out with just springs. Well, you can (by running stupidly stiff
springs), but then the car won't handle.

The best thing you
can do is either
completely replace the suspension with a better design, like a Miata rear or
maybe a BMW 3-series (or even TVR 2500 / Jag) OR run a better shock setup that
allows you to control the weight transfer...

Or you can live
with the squat.
To that end, you SHOULD pay attention to whether you're hitting the bump stops
or not. If so, you def. need either stiffer springs / bars or you need to
learn to NOT "throw" the car around.

regards,
rml
 
         |  Cell: 339-927-4489

Archive:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

---

From: "Robert M. Lang" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:05:08 -0400 (EDT)

Hi,

I wouldn't set the car for less camber just because you're at a hillclimb. 
For this event, I ran autocross settings (1/4" toe out front, about 1.5 
degrees neg. camber front and rear and ZERO toe in the rear.)

The road camber was more important than the alignment settings, IMHO. 
E.G., drive the right line and you're good to go. Get off the proper line 
and there was no road to help and trees/rocks/guardrails calling.

regards,
rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Triumph TR6!!            |  This space for rent
Former NER Solo Chair                          |
Voice:617-253-7438                             |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

---

From: Jack Mc <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 06:49:36 -0400

1/4" toe out?
HolyFlyingGaurdRail Batman! That sounds like a handful for that 4th gear
stretch - was it twitchy?   Seems like it would "hunt" for a straight path at
high speeds - In a way you'd never feel in an Autocross. No? Maybe?
On the other hand, I don't guess I would change it for one weekend.
Nice video, nice drive

Cheers,
Jack Mc

Sent from my iPad

>
> The road camber was more important than the alignment settings, IMHO. E.G.,
drive the right line and you're good to go. Get off the proper line and there
was no road to help and trees/rocks/guardrails calling.
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From: "Robert M. Lang" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 08:59:33 -0400 (EDT)

> 1/4" toe out?

Yep. It turns in GREAT! You just have to remember that you can't toss it 
hard or you're going to pay at the other end.

> stretch - was it twitchy?  Seems like it would "hunt" for a straight 
> path at high speeds - In a way you'd never feel in an Autocross. No? 
> Maybe?

We do see speeds in the 75 MPH range in our region and the car isn't darty 
at all at them. BUT - it's autocross == transistion city.

For that long stretch, the car just went where I pointed it. I do see that 
I am making lots of really, really small corrections on the long section, 
but that's more road defects than anything. I also had a fairly strong 
grip on the wheel.

;-)

> On the other hand, I don't guess I would change it for one weekend.

Ya - I've been driving that setup for a while - like 10 years. I'm sort of 
used to it.

> Nice video, nice drive

TNX... it was lots of fun.

regards,
rml