Subject: [Fot] Steering shaft u-joint TR-4

From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]> {sentby:smtp auth 173.22.113.197 authed with [email-masked]}
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:53:25 -0500

My steering shaft has two u-joints in it.  The lower one is a big 
beefy cast thing that I bought from Moss to replace the big beefy 
cast thing that was there before.  The upper one isn't quite as heavy 
duty looking but does a much better job of actually clamping onto the 
shaft.  I've tightened the sh** out of the lower big beefy one and 
it's still not as tightly clamped as I'd like.

So...  Where can I buy alternate u-joints for the TR-4 steering shaft?

Look forward to the advice.

Tony Drews

PS - article on front suspension swap to TR-6 stuff is still coming.
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From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]> {sentby:smtp auth 173.22.113.197 authed with [email-masked]}
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:47:41 -0500

Let's try this again in plain text:
So here's the issue - I'm running TR-6 U joints.  But the housing on 
one of them is so beefy that the pinch bolt won't actually pinch it 
tight on the steering shaft.  When I rebuilt it last time, I even 
relieved some additional metal out of the "slot" with a cutoff wheel 
to help this.  I can slide the shaft in and out of the u-joint 
slightly.  If I tighten the bolt any more I'll break it.  This makes 
me very nervous.

It appears that there is a Borgeson u-joint that's 9/16" - 36 spline 
on both ends but rather than a pinch bolt it uses a large set 
screw.  If I drill dimples into the pieces it will firmly hold them 
in place.  I've got one coming.

The odd thing is that of the TR-6 u-joints I have two distinct 
styles.  One doesn't have as beefy a pinch area so the pinch bolt can 
actually pinch the darn thing together and make it nice and 
tight.  Ideally I would find another one of those, but the current 
manufacturing doesn't seem to follow that pattern.

I agree that the rag joints aren't a great idea - but that's not the 
problem I have.

Someone mentioned using an MBG u-joint (heresy!) - it appears that 
there are more than one which will fit an MGB - anyone know which one 
is 9*16" x 36 spline?

Thanks, Tony

At 07:48 PM 10/15/2012, [email-masked] wrote:

Here's another vote for the TR6 joints...all metal and a direct bolt 
in.  The units with the "rag joint" are only outdone on the the 
"crummy scale" by the units with eight conical "faucet washers" 
holding it all together.  I do a lot of tech for the local clubs and 
can't even count all of the bad, torn or extremely loose joints I've 
found.  Some were so bad the cars weren't allowed on the track until 
the joints were fixed.

All cars that come thru the shop with any of the rag/taper washer 
setups automatically get the solid joints installed...now that's 
really a "safety upgrade" ...unlike the song and dances I've heard 
for brakes, engines, trannies...oh wait that's a different rant!

Still tryin to keep it vintage...
Nick in Norcal
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
To: fot <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Oct 14, 2012 6:53 pm
Subject: [Fot] Steering shaft u-joint TR-4

Tony Drews

---

From: EDWARD BARNARD <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:32:57 -0700 (PDT)

Tony: This terrible thought of placing MGB bits on a TR4 is true! Moss Motors
P/N 263-090 does fit the TR shaft. They also have a nice Hardy-Spicer
replacement for the OE  under part number 263-265. I built a R&P steering
conversion to a TR3 using said 263-090 P/N. Would you like me to check my
inventory of MGB steering columns tomorrow to see if I have one for you?
-Ed- 

--- On Mon, 10/15/12, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:

From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Steering shaft u-joint TR-4
To: [email-masked]
Date: Monday, October 15, 2012, 8:47 PM

Let's try this again in plain text:
So here's the issue - I'm running TR-6 U joints.  But the housing on one of
them is so beefy that the pinch bolt won't actually pinch it tight on the
steering shaft.  When I rebuilt it last time, I even relieved some additional
metal out of the "slot" with a cutoff wheel to help this.  I can slide the
shaft in and out of the u-joint slightly.  If I tighten the bolt any more I'll
break it.  This makes me very nervous.

It appears that there is a Borgeson u-joint that's 9/16" - 36 spline on both
ends but rather than a pinch bolt it uses a large set screw.  If I drill
dimples into the pieces it will firmly hold them in place.  I've got one
coming.

The odd thing is that of the TR-6 u-joints I have two distinct styles.  One
doesn't have as beefy a pinch area so the pinch bolt can actually pinch the
darn thing together and make it nice and tight.  Ideally I would find another
one of those, but the current manufacturing doesn't seem to follow that
pattern.

I agree that the rag joints aren't a great idea - but that's not the problem I
have.

Someone mentioned using an MBG u-joint (heresy!) - it appears that there are
more than one which will fit an MGB - anyone know which one is 9*16" x 36
spline?

Thanks, Tony

Here's another vote for the TR6 joints...all metal and a direct bolt in.  The
units with the "rag joint" are only outdone on the the "crummy scale" by the
units with eight conical "faucet washers" holding it all together.  I do a lot
of tech for the local clubs and can't even count all of the bad, torn or
extremely loose joints I've found.  Some were so bad the cars weren't allowed
on the track until the joints were fixed.

All cars that come thru the shop with any of the rag/taper washer setups
automatically get the solid joints installed...now that's really a "safety
upgrade" ...unlike the song and dances I've heard for brakes, engines,
trannies...oh wait that's a different rant!

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
To: fot <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Oct 14, 2012 6:53 pm
Subject: [Fot] Steering shaft u-joint TR-4

Tony Drews

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From: Bill Babcock <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:13:07 -0700

The borgeson joints actually have two set screws. The shaft they are supposed
to screw into is hollow. You drill a hole through one side of the hollow shaft
and run the screw through to the other side. the second set screw goes into a
dimple you drill. Both set screws are locked with a locknut. This is a pretty
positive locking arrangement. Kind of what you might want your steering to
use.

the TR6 joints are designed for splined shafts with a flat ground into them.
You pinch the housing onto the spline, but it's really the bolt passing by the
flat that locks the assembly in. And yes, they are kind of cludgy compared to
modern practice. They don't lock down well and there's some wiggle in the
resulting system from the loose fit on the splines. It took quite a bit of
grinding and some good, hard flange bolts the actually get it all locked down
for my street car. If it wiggles a tiny bit I'm tossing it all on top of my
pile of lucas distributors and replacing it with Borgeson stuff--which works
flawlessly.

>
> I agree that the rag joints aren't a great idea - but that's not the problem
I have.
> Here's another vote for the TR6 joints...all metal and a direct bolt in.
The units with the "rag joint" are only outdone on the the "crummy scale" by
the units with eight conical "faucet washers" holding it all together.  I do a
lot of tech for the local clubs and can't even count all of the bad, torn or
extremely loose joints I've found.  Some were so bad the cars weren't allowed
on the track until the joints were fixed.
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

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From: "Jim Gray" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:40:48 -0600

That MGB U-joint looks pretty nifty but looks heavy. Are they available in
titanium ?
jg

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Bill Babcock
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 10:05 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Fot] Steering shaft u-joint TR-4

Seiously guys, the TR6 joints are crap too. I used them on my street TR3
rack
and pinion conversion, but they're not much compared to the modern stuff.
It's
not a competitive advantage, just pure safety. SAE considers 5/8" shafts to
be
marginal and 3/4" to be appropriate. For the same price of the original
stuff
you can get 3/4" double d with hefty universals that have needle bearings
twice the size of the TR6 stuff. Your choice, your butt.

> Here's another vote for the TR6 joints...all metal and a direct bolt in.
The

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