Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing a Triumph TRANSMISSIONS

From: Bill Babcock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:58:30 -0700

Most of the Jaguar automatics I have experience with are hideous. I think they
were originally Borg-Warner. Had one in a 420 I owned briefly that I sold as a
parts car. Adapting a modern five or six speed automatic would not be all that
tough and could be VERY cool. If I were going to do it I'd get Tony Garmey to
do the fabrication.

No, it won't fit in the TR3 case. Does ANYONE really use TR3 transmissions? If
they do I have three or four they can have. I consider them useless.

On Oct 12, 2012, at 1:48 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

> Amici...
>
> With all of this talk about transmissions, and my serious hip/knee
> arthritis issues, what would really interest me is an automatic.  Anyone
know of any
> options open to me there?  I tend to be a Purist, so hopefully it should
> fit in the original TR3 tranny case.
>
> Bill (Damdinger)
>
> PS  Actually, I don't know about over here, but back in the day over in
> Europe, they did run some automatic transmissions in race cars.  The way I
> understand it, David Hobbs family built automatic transmissions.  I am not
sure
> what they went into, but I am going to guess Jaguar as the Tornado Cars
> Works racing logs we have talk about racing against the 'Hobbs Jag'.
> _______________________________________________
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From: michael cook <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:00:20 -0400

>From the internet: Hobbs, Howard Frederick (19021982)by G. H. Brooks	Howard
Frederick Hobbs (1902-1982), inventor, was born on 21 September 1902 at East
Marden, Adelaide, fifth of six surviving children of South Australian-born
parents James Harris Hobbs, fruit-grower, and his wife Mary Eliza, nie Pitt.
Educated at Prince Alfred College, as a boy Howard showed an aptitude for
things mechanical. At 14 he built a full-size aeroplane (without wings) that
was taxied around the familys garden, powered by a motorcycle engine. On
leaving school he worked at his fathers orchard and market garden at
Paradise. He married Phyllis Dorothy Reid, a schoolteacher, at Payneham
Methodist Church on 12 May 1925. Next year he applied for his first patent, an
improved appliance for the grading of fruit. 	Driving motorcars and lorries
from an early age, Hobbs cherished an ambition to eliminate the need for gear
changing. After many experiments he had a light car fitted with the `Hobbs
gearless drive ready for testing; Professors (Sir) Robert Chapman and (Sir)
Kerr Grant of the University of Adelaide found it satisfactory and simple to
operate. Hobbs Gearless Drive Ltd was formed in 1931 to market the device and
to administer the patent rights. In June 1931 Hobbs, with his wife and
daughter, sailed for Britain, where he also took out patents. For the next
thirty-five years the family were to live at Leamington Spa, Warwickshire; two
sons were born. Hobbs was unable to persuade car manufacturers to use the
`gearless drive: based on rotating weights, it incorporated a free-wheel
clutch, or ratchet, which was probably the weakness in the device. Other
inventors with similar ideas also failed to attract interest in their
mechanisms. 	After engaging in war work, in 1946 Hobbs was helped by a wealthy
industrialist to form Hobbs Transmission Ltd. He discarded the gearless drive
and developed the `Mechamatic transmission. The new automatic gearbox was
more complicated, with epicyclic gears and hydraulically operated friction
clutches. Mechamatic, with four forward gears, unusual at that time, was
lightweight and suitable for small cars. Many well-known makers built
prototypes but the only one to reach production was the Lanchester Sprite,
produced in 1955 by the Birmingham Small Arms Co. Ltd. For financial reasons
BSA soon abandoned the project. 	Westinghouse Brake & Signal Co. Ltd bought
BSAs shares in Hobbs Transmission and, anticipating its use in the Ford
Cortina, built a factory at Manchester to manufacture the Mechamatic. When
Ford decided not to proceed, Hobbs Transmission went into liquidation. In the
1960s Hobbss son David successfully drove a Lotus Elite fitted with the
Mechamatic gearbox in international motor races. The family moved to Napton,
near Rugby, about 1965 and Hobbs and his son John set up a workshop. They went
back to the original concept of the infinitely variable drive, but this time
hydraulic, not mechanical. Hobbs took out an Australian patent in the name of
Variable Kinetic Drives Ltd, but like its predecessors this also failed
commercially. In 1977 Hobbs was invited to participate in the British Genius
Exhibition at Battersea.
 > From: [email-masked]
> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:48:46 -0400
> To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> CC: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing a Triumph     TRANSMISSIONS
>
> Amici...
>
know of any
sure
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

---

From: "MadMarx" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 23:07:54 +0200

I can shift my dogbox without clutch.

-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] Im
Auftrag von [email-masked]
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Oktober 2012 22:49
An: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Racing a Triumph TRANSMISSIONS

Amici...

With all of this talk about transmissions, and my serious hip/knee arthritis
issues, what would really interest me is an automatic.  Anyone know of any
options open to me there?  I tend to be a Purist, so hopefully it should fit
in the original TR3 tranny case.

Bill (Damdinger)

sure what they went into, but I am going to guess Jaguar as the Tornado Cars

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From: Bill Babcock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:10:49 -0700

Wait a minute, I thought you were blessed with fine stock parts. When did they
build TRs with Dog Boxes. And YES, I shift mone without the clutch 50% of the
time.

> With all of this talk about transmissions, and my serious hip/knee
arthritis
> options open to me there?  I tend to be a Purist, so hopefully it should
fit

---

From: Yahoo <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:11:49 -0600

Is a dog box allowed by the sanctioning body?  Just kidding!

Ty

Sent from my iPhone

'63 Triumph TR4 DP Racecar
'62 Triumph TR4 RestoMod (Project)
++++

arthritis
fit
> Works racing logs we have talk about racing against the 'Hobbs Jag'.
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________
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---

From: "MadMarx" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 23:38:19 +0200

I run a stock housing with J-OD and some dogs inside.
Straight cut also. Almost stock.

-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bill Babcock [mailto:[email-masked]]
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Oktober 2012 23:11
An: MadMarx
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked];
[email-masked]

Wait a minute, I thought you were blessed with fine stock parts. When did
they build TRs with Dog Boxes. And YES, I shift mone without the clutch 50%
of the time.

On Oct 12, 2012, at 2:07 PM, "MadMarx" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> arthritis issues, what would really interest me is an automatic.
> Anyone know of any options open to me there?  I tend to be a Purist,
> so hopefully it should fit in the original TR3 tranny case.
>
> Bill (Damdinger)
>
> PS  Actually, I don't know about over here, but back in the day over
> in Europe, they did run some automatic transmissions in race cars.
> The way I understand it, David Hobbs family built automatic
> transmissions.  I am not sure what they went into, but I am going to
> guess Jaguar as the Tornado Cars Works racing logs we have talk about
racing against the 'Hobbs Jag'.

---

From: "MadMarx" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 23:43:14 +0200

Not German Shepards, German Bastucks :-)

-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:[email-masked]]
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Oktober 2012 23:42
An: MadMarx
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Racing a Triumph TRANSMISSIONS

What kind of dogs? German Shepards?
On Oct 12, 2012, at 4:38 PM, MadMarx wrote:

> Wait a minute, I thought you were blessed with fine stock parts. When
> did they build TRs with Dog Boxes. And YES, I shift mone without the
> clutch 50% of the time.
>
>> Von: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
>> Im Auftrag von [email-masked]
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

---

From: Bill Babcock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 15:33:09 -0700

That's my story too. It's almost stock. Ignore that straight cut gear howl.
They were all like that.

Sent from my iPhone

---

From: Charles WATSON <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 18:57:10 -0400

I think I started all this muckracking, so a question to help me out based on
what I'm hearing:

"Facts"
- The GT6 trans was good when new, but really unreliable now after 40 years
- Suitable alternatives are TR 3/4/6, T9 or various Toyota
- I have a typical spec GT6 4-spd with overdrive

Questions:
- Am I better off swapping the base unit out during the build or giving it a
chance?
- Is OD of any use?
- From my read of regs, a five speed is allowed as an alternative when
replacing a 4spd OD unit, as long as 5th gear is < a 1.1 ratio.  If so, what's
my best option?

Thanks,

Chuck Watson

---

From: John Hasty <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 20:50:11 -0400

By God Bill there's the answer. Autos shucks it worked for Lance  why not for
us ?

Sent from my iPhone

know of any
sure
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

---

From: John Hasty <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 20:56:17 -0400

Being near  Alsace I expect they are French Poodles

Sent from my iPhone

---

From: John Hasty <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 20:58:36 -0400

Gee, in still use a 3 close ratio with A  O D

Sent from my iPhone

---

From: Bobby Whitehead <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:13:15 -0700 (PDT)

that's another can of worms... but , really , if a Spridget guy wants to spend 
$6000 for a dogbox set of gears, it is still a reliability issue, with some 
potential for a gain in speed....
just no 'cruise control' , that's where I would draw the line....

great discussions on the thread btw..... thanks to you friends of Triumph!

Bobby

________________________________
From: MadMarx <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: Fri, October 12, 2012 4:08:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing a Triumph     TRANSMISSIONS

-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht-----

Amici...

Bill (Damdinger)

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---

From: Bobby Whitehead <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:17:58 -0700 (PDT)

sometimes mine shifts itself into "B" .... broke....

Bobby

________________________________
From: Bill Babcock <[email-masked]>
To: MadMarx <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Sent: Fri, October 12, 2012 4:18:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing a Triumph     TRANSMISSIONS

arthritis
fit

---

From: "Bill Tobin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:26:27 -0400

Just got back from the Glen; pretty nippy but nice.

re: transmissions: SVRA's  Jack Whoerle (sp) told us a couple years ago that 
because OD's were used in the day, we can use a 5 speed gearbox, but 5th has 
to be less than 1:1. Other organizations will tell you the same thing.

I've used the same gearbox for 6 years now with no problems. Yes, I run 
towards the back of the pack, but always have someone to dice with. And I'm 
having a great time. And not spending a fortune doing it.

The "Redhead" has had a total of 2 DNF's in the 6 years of driving it, and 
they were in the first 2 races I ever did. Not bad.
My $.02 worth.
Cheers, Bill
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charles WATSON" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "FOT List" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing a Triumph TRANSMISSIONS GT6 REBUILD

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]