Re: [Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in ZB <zmagnette@autox.team.net> <zmagnette.autox.team.net>

["Steve C." <laverda@aol.com>]

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I believe Higear has a replacment lever set up that will move it to the 
standard position.
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

charles durning <durningcharles@gmail.com> wrote:

David,

 

I've been offered a used Hi-gear conversion from a wrecked MGB.  I did some 
crude measurements and it looks like the shift lever will end up back by the 
parking brake handle.  What did you do to resolve that problem? 

 

Charlie Durning

 

If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is watching.

 



On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 7:09 PM, David Halliday <davidh@egopharm.com> wrote:

I can wholeheartedly recommend the Hi Gear conversion with the Ford type 9 
gearbox.  It is a great conversion.  It fits easily, with very little in the 
way of mods and looks stock from the interior.


I just drove my original and standard ZB yesterday.  I really miss that 5th 
gear and syncro on 1st and 2nd!


Kind regards,

David



On 30 November 2013 02:49, Wayne & Isabel Hardy <gwhardy@suddenlink.net> wrote:

Just a short comment on Rivergate kits again..I have experience with a 210 
tranny in a Midget. Neat little installation, requires only a couple stout 
smacks on the tunnel side so as to allow removal of the side located tranny oil 
check plug. You could if you wanted also use a hole saw clear through and check 
the level through the side from the inside of the cockpit but donâ??t need to. 
Gear selector comes out pretty much exactly where the old one did, and gears 
1-3 are almost exactly the same as the Midget box, 4th is direct drive 1 : 1 
ratio, and 5th is ease it on down the road gear for freeway use...especially if 
you have already gone to a 3.9 : 1 rear as I did. It gets about 45 mpg in 5th 
overdrive at 70 MPH, at about 2300 rpm; and 1st syncro is sure nice too. Very 
nice kit.

 

Wombat

 

From: Allen Bachelder 

Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:40 PM

To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America 

Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in ZB

 

Mike and Charles, 

 

Yeah,  I can imagine that a 3.9 on a 1500 would present quite a challenge on 
Lombard Hill!  I guess my consideration of rear gears presumed the 1800 was 
already in the picture. 

 

I forgot to point this out but in the third picture I sent, you can see I've 
moved the handbrake back about 1.5". This is not difficult at all - there's 
plenty of room to take up that much slack in the cable.  Also note that I 
tilted the lever up a bit on it's front bracket.  It clears the tower nicely. 
Regarding the 200SX or 240SX transmissions, the 280Z was Rivergate's choice and 
their kit will not fit the others. They liked the extreme durability of the 
280Z - as it was designed to handle the six-cylinder engine.  They do have kits 
designed to fit the 210 five-speed to "A block" engines. Designed for 
Spridgets, I believe they also adapt well in Morris Minors. I keep my eye out 
for these on occasion and have dreams of my own MM 4-door with a 1275, a 
Rivergate/210 five-speed, a Spridget 3.9 diff, and Spridget discs up front.  
The trick is to FiND a 210 5-speed. And for that matter, the 280Z 5-speeds are 
drying up also.  BTW, there is some activity in the BW T5 bull pen.  We 
 may
have another option before long.  Hopefully somebody who knows more than I will 
speak to this.

 

I still hold with the opinion that the non-od MGB 4-synch would be more trouble 
to install than a Hi-Gear or a Datsun and give you very little return for your 
money and effort.  It would be nice to capitalize on that free one you have - 
except bear in mind that your freeby is the 2nd-most worthless part on an MGB, 
the most worthless part on an MGB being a 3sync non-od transmission.  If you 
advertised to MGB guys that you were currently accepting 4-sync non-od 
drop-offs, your front yard would be full by morning. Keeping one or two and 
tearing them down for parts makes some sense as the internals can be used in 
rebuilding od boxes.  I gave away four of them about two years ago. I have one 
"spare" 4-sync od box that I'll will to one of my kids someday. The other kid 
will get the house and everything that's in the bank. 

 

Regarding shifter location, I think that problem can be solved pretty easily - 
since the Rivergate/Datsun brings it's shifter up right in the MGB 4-sync 
opening. Ergo, if the Rivergate/Datsun shifter requires about a 2" rearward 
expansion in the Magnette tunnel, the 4-sync MGB shifter would require about 
the same. I'm pretty sure it would be doable. ' Wonder if anybody's tried this 
with a Triumph TR6 box.  After all, a Triumph has to be good for something...  
;-)  ;-)  ;-) 

 

Cheers,

Allen

**************************************************************** 

Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs

'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT

North Street, MI 48049, USA

http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs 

****************************************************************

 

On Nov 27, 2013, at 2:22 PM, charles durning wrote:


Allen,

 

Thanks for the response.  I'm not intending on using a MGB OD transmission just 
the NON OD trans that came with the engine.  My concern was with the location 
of the shifter.  I'm thinking that with a little fabrication I can relocate the 
shift lever in the opening for the remote control.  I might even be able to 
adapt the Magnette lever there.  I'll compare the 2 when I get it out sometime 
in the future.

 

A friend has a used Ford Sierra trans and the adaptor parts he removed from a 
wrecked MGB.  It's FREE.  I looked it over and it looks like the sfift lever 
would interfere with the parking brake lever also.  It looks like a major job 
to relocate the shift lever on that trans.  I would use it if I can work out 
relocating the shift lever. 

 

Frankly I would be happy with a 4 speed, that's why I would consider using the 
NON OD MGB 4 synchro trans that came with the engine.  I could keep the 3 
synchro trans it would be easy enough to adapt to the 5 mb engine.  

 

BTW I did some looking around and it looks like the trans from a Datsun 200SX 
or 240SX would put the shifter in the right place. 

 

Charlie Durning

 

If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is watching.

 



On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Allen Bachelder <bachldrs@comcast.net> wrote:

As far as I know, the cheapest way to do this is with the Datsun 280Z 
five-speed (it has a "Z" in it!) and a Rivergate kit.  I've done it on two 
different Magnettes.  The kit is designed for an MGB so there is a bit of 
fabrication necessary - but it isn't rocket science.  The bit in question is 
the transmission mount. The Hi-Gear Ford Sierra kit is available from either 
Moss or Bruce Woodson and I understand there is a purpose-built version for the 
Magnette. 

 

Having done the Datsun/Rivergate option, I can say that it is pretty darn easy. 
 The pictures show the only modifications done to the car.  Bear in mind that 
the PO had converted the car to the Datsun transmission with a kit homemade by 
his mechanic. The second picture shows how much material was removed from the 
back of the shifter opening.  In fact, this is more than necessary, but the 
third picture shows how I dealt with it.  I chose not to weld the new tunnel 
patch in case a future owner wants to reverse the conversion.  In this sense, 
in answer to frequent criticism, by using a Japanese transmission, I actually 
preserved more original MG than I would have with an MG transmission. Another 
advantage to this approach is that the old Magnette drive shaft still fits - 
requiring only that the front U-joint yoke be reamed slightly to fit the Datsun 
U-joint which of course has it's own front yoke and transmission spline.  

 

If I recall correctly, I used an early MGB shift-lever boot.   I did rework the 
flange of the shift-lever tower with a body hammer to fit its new location. The 
PO didn't use a tower at all.

 

One more thought.  If you're undecided about the transmission choice, first try 
replacing your original 4.55 differential gear set with a 4.3, a 4.1 (if you 
can find one), or a 3.9.  This is an easy two-hour job. You might find that 
even with the original gearbox, you're happy with the higher-geared rear end. 
It's interesting that the two ZAs I rode in while visiting the UK were both the 
earliest 4.87 rear-end types, and while we never went on the "M roads" with 
them (equivalent to our interstates), they seemed remarkably unstressed.  For 
awhile there, I started wondering why I had gone to all this effort.  But then 
I get on the I-69 here in Michigan with its 70 mph speed limit and I'm sure 
happy to have my 5th gear, along with the 3.9, giving me 25 mph per 1,000 rpm.

 

FWIW,

Allen

**************************************************************** 

Allen & Florrie Bachelder       =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs

'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT

North Street, MI 48049, USA

http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs 

****************************************************************

 

On Nov 27, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Steve C. wrote:


As Steve K states I installed a 4 syncro overdrive many years ago in my ZA. I 
would not even consider doing so today. The 5 speed kits are so much easier to 
do. The come with everything you need and require almost no modifications to 
the car. To install the late over drive you need to build a rear transmission 
mount, a transmission tunnel, drive shaft, speedo gear box and cable. Then deal 
with the starter hitting the frame and making a clutch hydraulic line. I also 
did some mods to the shift tower, but do not remember exactly what. I think 
that covers it all.
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Steve Kirby <skirby210@cox.net> wrote: 

It is not my place to answer this, and it is further not my place to offer up 
this answer, but I will anyway!  One of my first, of many, mentors, in the 
Magnette World was Steve Carroll . . . he of thee superb header set up many of 
us have purchased.  Steve did put a full late B synchro in his.  I do remember 
Steve describing the various things he had to do.  Steve is a person of immense 
talents, so his pay grade is much higher than mine.  Perhaps Steve will answer, 
now that I've prodded him a bit, or Charlie can contact him directly.

 

#2SteveK

----- Original Message -----

From: LannM@aol.com

To: zmagnette@autox.team.net

Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:29 AM

Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in ZB

 

Shifter location aside, the 4 sync is wider than the 3 sync.  Compare a 3 sync 
MGB with a 4 sync.  The transmission tunnel is noticeably different.  I've put 
a 4 sync in and early MGB and it takes a lot of work with a BIG hammer to move 
sheet metal around.  Even then, its still a tight fit.  I can't imagine a 
Magnette would be any easier.

 

I think Allen is right, a Hi-Gear 5 speed would be quicker, easier, and 
probably cheaper.

 

Lann 

 

In a message dated 11/26/2013 10:19:44 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
durningcharles@gmail.com writes:

Robert,

 

I didn't think that even modifying the remote would work.  It would still be 
too far back, not to mention the height.  I was thinking about eleminating the 
remote and mounting the shifter directly to the opening on the trans where the 
remote attaches.  I still have to get under the car and do some measuring to 
see if that would be close.

 

It would be good if some BMC car used the 4 synchro trans with a direct 
shifter.  That would keep me from having to make something.

 

 

Charlie Durning

 

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:58 AM, <monster@caverock.net.nz> wrote:


http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website%20pages/Dads_Oxford.html

On the above page are some photos and a description of fitting an MGB engine 
and 4-synchro+overdrive 'box to a 1960's Farina Oxford.
It includes a pic of shortening the remote gearlever extension to fit, and a 
new tunnel.

I'd agree that the benefits of non-OD box over all the mods needed for a 
3-synchro box might not be great.
I also love the sound of the non-synchro 1st gear. Bah, musicians, eh? :-)

regards,
-- 
Robert 



On 26.11.2013 15:50, Allen Bachelder wrote:

Charlie,
Even without overdrive, the remote shifter on the MGB 4-sync sits
high and your going to have to substantially reshape the transmission
tunnel to make it fit. That's a ferocious price to pay for a
synchronized first gear. If you're going to that much trouble, you
might as well go five-speed.



 

 

 

 

 


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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html><head><meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" 
http-equiv="Content-Type"></head>I believe Higear has a replacment lever set up 
that will move it to the standard position.<br>
-- <br>
Sent from my Android phone with <a href="http://mail.com";>mail.com</a> Mail. 
Please excuse my brevity.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">charles durning 
&lt;durningcharles@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" 
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); 
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>David,</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>I&#39;ve been offered a used Hi-gear conversion from a wrecked MGB.  I 
did some crude measurements and it looks like the shift lever will end up back 
by the parking brake handle.  What did you do to resolve that problem? <br 
clear="all">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Â </div>
<div>Charlie Durning</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><font size="4">If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is 
watching.</font></div>
<div>Â </div></div></div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 7:09 PM, David Halliday <span 
dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:davidh@egopharm.com"; 
target="_blank">davidh@egopharm.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">I can wholeheartedly recommend the Hi Gear conversion with the 
Ford type 9 gearbox.  It is a great conversion.  It fits easily, with very 
little in the way of mods and looks stock from the interior.<br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">I just drove my original and standard ZB yesterday.  
I really miss that 5th gear and syncro on 1st and 2nd!<br clear="all"></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>Kind regards,<br><br>David<br><br></div></div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 30 November 2013 02:49, Wayne &amp; Isabel Hardy 
<span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:gwhardy@suddenlink.net"; 
target="_blank">gwhardy@suddenlink.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39;;FONT-SIZE:14pt">
<div><font size="4">Just a short comment on Rivergate kits again..I have 
experience with a 210 tranny in a Midget. Neat little installation, requires 
only a couple stout smacks on the tunnel side so as to allow removal of the 
side located tranny oil check plug. You could if you wanted also use a hole saw 
clear through and check the level through the side from the inside of the 
cockpit but donâ??t need to. Gear selector comes out pretty much exactly where 
the old one did, and gears 1-3 are almost exactly the same as the Midget box, 
4th is direct drive 1 : 1 ratio, and 5th is ease it on down the road gear for 
freeway use...especially if you have already gone to a 3.9 : 1 rear as I did. 
It gets about 45 mpg in 5th overdrive at 70 MPH, at about 2300 rpm; and 1st 
syncro is sure nice too. Very nice kit.</font></div>

<div><font size="4"></font>Â </div>
<div><font size="4">Wombat</font></div>
<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39;;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div>Â </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="bachldrs@comcast.net" 
href="mailto:bachldrs@comcast.net"; target="_blank">Allen Bachelder</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:40 PM</div>
<div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="zmagnette@autox.team.net" 
href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net"; target="_blank">List for the Z Magnette 
Group - North America</a> </div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in 
ZB</div></div></div></div></div>
<div>Â </div></div>
<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39;;FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div>
<div>Mike and Charles, 
<div>Â </div>
<div>Yeah,  I can imagine that a 3.9 on a 1500 would present quite a challenge 
on Lombard Hill!  I guess my consideration of rear gears presumed the 1800 was 
already in the picture. </div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>I forgot to point this out but in the third picture I sent, you can see 
I&#39;ve moved the handbrake back about 1.5&quot;. This is not difficult at all 
- there&#39;s plenty of room to take up that much slack in the cable.  Also 
note that I tilted the lever up a bit on it&#39;s front bracket.  It clears 
the tower nicely. Regarding the 200SX or 240SX transmissions, the 280Z was 
Rivergate&#39;s choice and their kit will not fit the others. They liked the 
extreme durability of the 280Z - as it was designed to handle the six-cylinder 
engine.  They do have kits designed to fit the 210 five-speed to &quot;A 
block&quot; engines. Designed for Spridgets, I believe they also adapt well in 
Morris Minors. I keep my eye out for these on occasion and have dreams of my 
own MM 4-door with a 1275, a Rivergate/210 five-speed, a Spridget 3.9 diff, and 
Spridget discs up front.  The trick is to FiND a 210 5-speed. And for that 
matter, the 280Z 5-speeds are drying up also.  BTW, there is 
 some
activity in the BW T5 bull pen.  We may have another option before long.  
Hopefully somebody who knows more than I will speak to this.</div>

<div>Â </div>
<div>I still hold with the opinion that the non-od MGB 4-synch would be more 
trouble to install than a Hi-Gear or a Datsun and give you very little return 
for your money and effort.  It would be nice to capitalize on that free one 
you have - except bear in mind that your freeby is the 2nd-most worthless part 
on an MGB, the most worthless part on an MGB being a 3sync non-od 
transmission.  If you advertised to MGB guys that you were currently accepting 
4-sync non-od drop-offs, your front yard would be full by morning. Keeping one 
or two and tearing them down for parts makes some sense as the internals can be 
used in rebuilding od boxes.  I gave away four of them about two years ago. I 
have one &quot;spare&quot; 4-sync od box that I&#39;ll will to one of my kids 
someday. The other kid will get the house and everything that&#39;s in the 
bank. </div>

<div>Â </div>
<div>Regarding shifter location, I think that problem can be solved pretty 
easily - since the Rivergate/Datsun brings it&#39;s shifter up right in the MGB 
4-sync opening. Ergo, if the Rivergate/Datsun shifter requires about a 2&quot; 
rearward expansion in the Magnette tunnel, the 4-sync MGB shifter would require 
about the same. I&#39;m pretty sure it would be doable. &#39; Wonder if 
anybody&#39;s tried this with a Triumph TR6 box.  After all, a Triumph has to 
be good for something...  ;-)  ;-)  ;-) </div>

<div>Â </div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Allen<br>
<div><span 
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium 
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span 
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<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span 
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium 
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span 
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium 
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span 
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium 
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span 
style="FONT-SIZE:12px"><b><i>****************************************************************</i></b></span><span
 
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<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>Allen
 &amp; Florrie Bachelder       =iii=&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward 
MGs</i></b></div>

<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>&#39;57
 ZB, &#39;65 B, &#39;69 C/GT, &#39;73 B/GT</i></b></div>
<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>North
 Street, MI 48049, 
USA</i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><b><i><span
 style="FONT-SIZE:12px"><a href="http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs"; 
target="_blank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><span
 
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
 
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<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i><span
 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal">****************************************************************</span></i></b></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></div></span></span></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>
<div>On Nov 27, 2013, at 2:22 PM, charles durning wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Allen,</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>Thanks for the response.  I&#39;m not intending on using a MGB OD 
transmission just the NON OD trans that came with the engine.  My concern was 
with the location of the shifter.  I&#39;m thinking that with a little 
fabrication I can relocate the shift lever in the opening for the remote 
control.  I might even be able to adapt the Magnette lever there.  I&#39;ll 
compare the 2 when I get it out sometime in the future.</div>

<div>Â </div>
<div>A friend has a used Ford Sierra trans and the adaptor parts he removed 
from a wrecked MGB.  It&#39;s FREE.  I looked it over and it looks like the 
sfift lever would interfere with the parking brake lever also.  It looks like 
a major job to relocate the shift lever on that trans.  I would use it if I 
can work out relocating the shift lever. </div>

<div>Â </div>
<div>Frankly I would be happy with a 4 speed, that&#39;s why I would consider 
using the NON OD MGB 4 synchro trans that came with the engine.  I could keep 
the 3 synchro trans it would be easy enough to adapt to the 5 mb engine.  
</div>

<div>Â </div>
<div>BTW I did some looking around and it looks like the trans from a Datsun 
200SX or 240SX would put the shifter in the right place. <br clear="all"></div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Â </div>
<div>Charlie Durning</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div><font size="4">If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is 
watching.</font></div>
<div>Â </div></div></div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Allen Bachelder 
<span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:bachldrs@comcast.net"; 
target="_blank">bachldrs@comcast.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">As far as I know, the cheapest way to do this 
is with the Datsun 280Z five-speed (it has a &quot;Z&quot; in it!) and a 
Rivergate kit.  I&#39;ve done it on two different Magnettes.  The kit is 
designed for an MGB so there is a bit of fabrication necessary - but it 
isn&#39;t rocket science.  The bit in question is the transmission mount. The 
Hi-Gear Ford Sierra kit is available from either Moss or Bruce Woodson and I 
understand there is a purpose-built version for the Magnette. 
<div>Â </div>
<div>Having done the Datsun/Rivergate option, I can say that it is pretty darn 
easy.  The pictures show the only modifications done to the car.  Bear in 
mind that the PO had converted the car to the Datsun transmission with a kit 
homemade by his mechanic. The second picture shows how much material was 
removed from the back of the shifter opening.  In fact, this is more than 
necessary, but the third picture shows how I dealt with it.  I chose not to 
weld the new tunnel patch in case a future owner wants to reverse the 
conversion.  In this sense, in answer to frequent criticism, by using a 
Japanese transmission, I actually preserved more original MG than I would have 
with an MG transmission. Another advantage to this approach is that the old 
Magnette drive shaft still fits - requiring only that the front U-joint yoke be 
reamed slightly to fit the Datsun U-joint which of course has it&#39;s own 
front yoke and transmission spline.  </div>

<div>Â </div>
<div>If I recall correctly, I used an early MGB shift-lever boot.   I did 
rework the flange of the shift-lever tower with a body hammer to fit its new 
location. The PO didn&#39;t use a tower at all.</div>
<div>Â </div>
<div>One more thought.  If you&#39;re undecided about the transmission choice, 
first try replacing your original 4.55 differential gear set with a 4.3, a 4.1 
(if you can find one), or a 3.9.  This is an easy two-hour job. You might find 
that even with the original gearbox, you&#39;re happy with the higher-geared 
rear end. It&#39;s interesting that the two ZAs I rode in while visiting the UK 
were both the earliest 4.87 rear-end types, and while we never went on the 
&quot;M roads&quot; with them (equivalent to our interstates), they seemed 
remarkably unstressed.  For awhile there, I started wondering why I had gone 
to all this effort.  But then I get on the I-69 here in Michigan with its 70 
mph speed limit and I&#39;m sure happy to have my 5th gear, along with the 3.9, 
giving me 25 mph per 1,000 rpm.</div>

<div>Â </div>
<div>FWIW,</div>
<div>Allen</div>
<div>
<div><span 
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium 
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span 
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helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
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helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span 
style="FONT-SIZE:12px"><b><i>****************************************************************</i></b></span><span
 
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium 
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<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>Allen
 &amp; Florrie Bachelder       =iii=&lt;<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward 
MGs</i></b></div>
<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>&#39;57
 ZB, &#39;65 B, &#39;69 C/GT, &#39;73 B/GT</i></b></div>
<div 
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>North
 Street, MI 48049, 
USA</i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><b><i><span
 style="FONT-SIZE:12px"><a href="http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs"; 
target="_blank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><span
 
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
 
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<div>Â </div>
<div>
<div>On Nov 27, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Steve C. wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span 
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:arial" bgcolor="#ffffff">As Steve K states I installed 
a 4 syncro overdrive many years ago in my ZA. I would not even consider doing 
so today. The 5 speed kits are so much easier to do. The come with everything 
you need and require almost no modifications to the car. To install the late 
over drive you need to build a rear transmission mount, a transmission tunnel, 
drive shaft, speedo gear box and cable. Then deal with the starter hitting the 
frame and making a clutch hydraulic line. I also did some mods to the shift 
tower, but do not remember exactly what. I think that covers it all.<br>
--<span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </span><br>Sent from my Android phone 
with<span style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </span><a style="FONT-SIZE:10pt" 
href="http://mail.com/"; target="_blank">mail.com</a><span 
style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </span>Mail. Please excuse my brevity.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">Steve Kirby &lt;<a style="FONT-SIZE:10pt" 
href="mailto:skirby210@cox.net"; target="_blank">skirby210@cox.net</a>&gt; 
wrote: 
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0pt 0pt 0pt 
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">It is not my 
place to answer this, and it is further not my place to offer up this answer, 
but I will anyway!  One of my first, of many, mentors, in the Magnette World 
was Steve Carroll . . . he of thee superb header set up many of us have 
purchased.  Steve did put a full late B synchro in his.  I do remember Steve 
describing the various things he had to do.  Steve is a person of immense 
talents, so his pay grade is much higher than mine.  Perhaps Steve will 
answer, now that I&#39;ve prodded him a bit, or Charlie can contact him 
directly.</font></div>

<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt"><font size="3" face="Times New 
Roman"></font>Â </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt"><font size="3" face="Times New 
Roman">#2SteveK</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(0,0,0) 2px 
solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(228,228,228);FONT:10pt 
arial"><b>From:</b><span>Â </span><a title="LannM@aol.com" 
href="mailto:LannM@aol.com"; target="_blank">LannM@aol.com</a></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b><span>Â </span><a 
title="zmagnette@autox.team.net" href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net"; 
target="_blank">zmagnette@autox.team.net</a></div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b><span>Â </span>Tuesday, November 26, 
2013 8:29 AM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b><span>Â </span>Re: [Zmagnette] 4 
synchro MGB trans in ZB</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div><font color="#000000" face="Arial">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Shifter location aside, the 4 sync is wider than 
the 3 sync.  Compare a 3 sync MGB with a 4 sync.  The transmission tunnel is 
noticeably different.  I&#39;ve put a 4 sync in and early MGB and it takes a 
lot of work with a BIG hammer to move sheet metal around.  Even then, its 
still a tight fit.  I can&#39;t imagine a Magnette would be any easier.</div>

<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">I think Allen is right, a Hi-Gear 5 speed would be 
quicker, easier, and probably cheaper.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Lann </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">In a message dated 11/26/2013 10:19:44 A.M. Central 
Standard Time,<span>Â </span><a href="mailto:durningcharles@gmail.com"; 
target="_blank">durningcharles@gmail.com</a><span>Â </span>writes:</div>

<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:blue 2px 
solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px"><font 
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent" color="#000000" face="Arial">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Robert,</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">I didn&#39;t think that even modifying the remote 
would work.  It would still be too far back, not to mention the height.  I 
was thinking about eleminating the remote and mounting the shifter directly to 
the opening on the trans where the remote attaches.  I still have to get under 
the car and do some measuring to see if that would be close.</div>

<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">It would be good if some BMC car used the 4 synchro 
trans with a direct shifter.  That would keep me from having to make 
something.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Charlie Durning</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt">Â </div></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10pt" class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:58 
AM,<span>Â </span><span dir="ltr">&lt;<a title="mailto:monster@caverock.net.nz"; 
href="mailto:monster@caverock.net.nz"; 
target="_blank">monster@caverock.net.nz</a>&gt;</span><span>Â </span>wrote:<br>

<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><br><a 
title="http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website pages/Dads_Oxford.html" 
href="http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website%20pages/Dads_Oxford.html"; 
target="_blank">http://www.beardmorebros.co.<u></u>uk/website%20pages/Dads_<u></u>Oxford.html</a><br>
<br>On the above page are some photos and a description of fitting an MGB 
engine and 4-synchro+overdrive &#39;box to a 1960&#39;s Farina Oxford.<br>It 
includes a pic of shortening the remote gearlever extension to fit, and a new 
tunnel.<br>
<br>I&#39;d agree that the benefits of non-OD box over all the mods needed for 
a 3-synchro box might not be great.<br>I also love the sound of the non-synchro 
1st gear. Bah, musicians, eh? :-)<br><br>regards,<br>--<span>Â </span><br>
Robert 
<div><br><br>On 26.11.2013 15:50, Allen Bachelder wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">Charlie,<br>Even without overdrive, 
the remote shifter on the MGB 4-sync sits<br>high and your going to have to 
substantially reshape the transmission<br>
tunnel to make it fit. That&#39;s a ferocious price to pay for 
a<br>synchronized first gear. If you&#39;re going to that much trouble, 
you<br>might as well go 
five-speed.<br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></font></blockquote>
</div></font></blockquote></blockquote></div><br><br></div></span></blockquote></div></div></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<div></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div></div></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
<div></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div></div></div>
<div>Â </div>
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word">
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