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Hi, Don,
I agree that it wouldnt take a number ten size hat to find an alternative gl=
ue, even that long ago. What you=E2=80=99ve overlooked is the wildcard aka T=
he Purchase Department and its =E2=80=98procedures=E2=80=99. It was purchasi=
ng who were eventually identified as the culprits for screwing up Stag by sp=
ecifying unsuitable aluminium for the cylinder heads, specifying an unsuitab=
le water pump and then specifying an unsuitable radiator - all on the ground=
s of unit cost. Those who ran that department would have made first class ic=
e hockey players as they passed the buck so quickly, no-one knew where it wa=
s hidden. Against that background, two years to find and specify an alternat=
ive glue was pretty quick!=20
Going back to Stag and it=E2=80=99s faults, those responsible were allegedly=
sacked, but curiously two or three key players wound up in the Purchase Dep=
t at BL Austin Morris where they had the latitude and even more scope for sc=
rewing things up in the volume car division of which MG was an integral part=
, while others joined Ford Europe! How did they get there without being suss=
ed? No idea, but they probably drank in the same pub and a lot of BL people w=
ere Freemasons as well, so anything could happen and in my experience, often=
did.
Jonmac
Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut=E2=80=99s tomb
> On 31 Dec 2022, at 15:49, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> John, what another useful recollection!
>=20
> So the process was indeed what it always looked like -- sort of a manual v=
ersion of the molded pulp pieces used in packaging (especially egg cartons).=
=20
>=20
> It's not at all obvious why it took them two years to find an alternative t=
o isinglass (glue made from fish swim bladders). Seems even in those days t=
hat would have been about a week's work given the material choices available=
(casein/milk protein, soya protein, synthetic latex/SBR/PVaC/acrylic, polyv=
inyl alcohol/PVOH, and probably a half dozen more. If they'd come to my lab=
-- even in the late 1970s, when I was starting in polymer science and techn=
ology, this woulda been a doddle.
>=20
> But then, for Prestfibre to be using that process at all indicates that th=
ey weren't a leading-edge-of-change group.
>=20
> Keep those stories coming. And Happy New Year!
>=20
> -- Don
>=20
>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 7:08 AM John Macartney <johnbmacartney@gmx.com> w=
rote:
>>=20
>> I have very vivid memories at age 16 of going with my Dad to a UK company=
called Prestfibre and watching the tunnels and instrument panels for Herald=
and TR being made.=20
>> The solution of mashed paper, cardboard was spread over a male former mad=
e of perforated zinc and then the =E2=80=98goop=E2=80=99 was covered by anot=
her inside shape former to which pressure and heat was applied. Thirty secon=
ds later a sort of tunnel or panel was pulled off the inner former and place=
d in a pile alongside to cool. What stands out most in my memory was the sti=
nk of raw fish as fish glue formed a large part of the =E2=80=98goop=E2=80=99=
mixture. Unfortunately the fish odour lingered around each assembly for man=
y months and made the cars in which they were later fitted to stink of fish a=
s well!
>> It took a very long time - at least two years - for Prestfibre to find an=
alternative glue whi ch didn=E2=80=99t stink of fish and while the cars the=
mselves no longer smelled of fish, the durability of those =E2=80=98goop=E2=80=
=99 fabricated items were by no means as long lasting. I guess that=E2=80=99=
s why y=E2=80=99all are considering alternatives?
>>=20
>> Jonmac
>>=20
>> Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut=E2=80=99s tom=
b
>> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/arch=
ive
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hi=
scock@gmail.com
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi, Don,<div><br></div><div>I agree that it=
wouldnt take a number ten size hat to find an alternative glue, even that l=
ong ago. What you=E2=80=99ve overlooked is the wildcard aka The Purchase Dep=
artment and its =E2=80=98procedures=E2=80=99. It was purchasing who were eve=
ntually identified as the culprits for screwing up Stag by specifying unsuit=
able aluminium for the cylinder heads, specifying an unsuitable water pump a=
nd then specifying an unsuitable radiator - all on the grounds of unit cost.=
Those who ran that department would have made first class ice hockey player=
s as they passed the buck so quickly, no-one knew where it was hidden. Again=
st that background, two years to find and specify an alternative glue was pr=
etty quick! </div><div>Going back to Stag and it=E2=80=99s faults, thos=
e responsible were allegedly sacked, but curiously two or three key players w=
ound up in the Purchase Dept at BL Austin Morris where they had the latitude=
and even more scope for screwing things up in the volume car division of wh=
ich MG was an integral part, while others joined Ford Europe! How did they g=
et there without being sussed? No idea, but they probably drank in the same p=
ub and a lot of BL people were Freemasons as well, so anything could happen a=
nd in my experience, often did.</div><div><br></div><div>Jonmac<br><br><div i=
d=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus=
I found in King Tut=E2=80=99s tomb</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 31 Dec 2022=
, at 15:49, Don Hiscock <<a href=3D"mailto:don.hiscock@gmail.com";>don.his=
cock@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:s=
mall">John, what another useful recollection!</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-size:small">So the process was indeed what it always looked like -- so=
rt of a manual version of the molded pulp pieces used in packaging (especial=
ly egg cartons). </div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small=
">It's not at all obvious why it took them two years to find an alternative&=
nbsp;to isinglass (glue made from fish swim bladders). Seems even in t=
hose days that would have been about a week's work given the material choice=
s available (casein/milk protein, soya protein, synthetic latex/SBR/PVa=
C/acrylic, polyvinyl alcohol/PVOH, and probably a half dozen more. If t=
hey'd come to my lab -- even in the late 1970s, when I was starting in polym=
er science and technology, this woulda been a doddle.</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
style=3D"font-size:small">But then, for Prestfibre to be using that process=
at all indicates that they weren't a leading-edge-of-change group.</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Keep those stories coming. An=
d Happy New Year!</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">-- Don</d=
iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 7:08 AM John Macartney <<a href=3D"mailto:johnb=
macartney@gmx.com">johnbmacartney@gmx.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
I have very vivid memories at age 16 of going with my Dad to a UK company ca=
lled Prestfibre and watching the tunnels and instrument panels for Herald an=
d TR being made. <br>
The solution of mashed paper, cardboard was spread over a male former made o=
f perforated zinc and then the =E2=80=98goop=E2=80=99 was covered by another=
inside shape former to which pressure and heat was applied. Thirty seconds l=
ater a sort of tunnel or panel was pulled off the inner former and placed in=
a pile alongside to cool. What stands out most in my memory was the stink o=
f raw fish as fish glue formed a large part of the =E2=80=98goop=E2=80=99 mi=
xture. Unfortunately the fish odour lingered around each assembly for many m=
onths and made the cars in which they were later fitted to stink of fish as w=
ell!<br>
It took a very long time - at least two years - for Prestfibre to find an al=
ternative glue whi ch didn=E2=80=99t stink of fish and while the cars themse=
lves no longer smelled of fish, the durability of those =E2=80=98goop=E2=80=99=
fabricated items were by no means as long lasting. I guess that=E2=80=99s w=
hy y=E2=80=99all are considering alternatives?<br>
<br>
Jonmac<br>
<br>
Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut=E2=80=99s tomb<b=
r>
** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@aut=
ox.team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/don.hiscock@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock@gmail.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div></body></html>=
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