triumphs
[Top] [All Lists]

[TR] electronic ignition vs CEI, HEI vs CDI - a little technical

To: triumphs@autox.team.net s=q20121106; t=1353935975; bh=oGt4tNRyLG9ZxVZIFmsiaVphhDPU93DjwE5pzaXkFIA=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=HERt3I7lsZFQvEC3bhEsJkhh7/JeDlrVGpu4kWMEhUl0yhkKvfsdodCIlh5NU1Iae Md9cipQ/VN3vlBrjox7f0CZvP4LaHGTctWqiEyz0OunQ5JquAD+j5WZoVBP6CoIvh9 04EIGGua5eM+upVmb7JHkllKxNCL31hFIOHbR8b2g5KyGuUY5+oyyTASGTR5oXzQ5L Kns//vYe95g4zmAjdLXbTGcV22eF/XRERUg+sTERPXSgbXhuDYyQ1V5vqqmDQh6OC+ 1Pfp+I52jkGLCPnWBGCnnvY0qU52Lklidb7BzG1e1I4VoUESHUG5en+btY5AedibcY JorpYlFOLqVng==
Subject: [TR] electronic ignition vs CEI, HEI vs CDI - a little technical
From: spamiam@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:19:35 +0000 (UTC)
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: triumphs@autox.team.net
I have been thinking about adding transistorized ignition to my TR4A. I had 
thought about adding a transistor switching unit. I have a Pertronix right now, 
but I am not at all sure it really adds any real benefits over a good condition 
points system, other than not having points. But with a failure on the road 
it,s a pain in the neck to reinstall the points parts. Plus the push-on magnet 
ring does not fit well on my distributor. I was thinking about going back to 
using points and add a transistor switching unit like the Boyer-Brandsen 
Kit0069. That way if there were a failure, it would be real simple to go back 
to points alone. With the transistor switching unit, the points will not arc 
and the contacts will last essentially forever (maybe not the rubbing block, 
though) 

I have the Delco HEI sysem on my TR7 and I have done a bit of research on it. 
It is a really nice system but requires a special low resistance (and lower 
inductance) than the normal 3 ohm or 1.5 ohm coils. It limits current to 5.5 
amps for the stock HEI unit and adjusts the dwell to JUST get to the current 
limiting state before the ignition fires. This minimizes coil heating so it 
won't burn out at these high currents. 

I thought I might apply the HEI system to the points triggered TR4A 
distributor. But if that is done, then dwell control is lost unless you use 
some fancy electronics to convert points into a reluctor system. But then I saw 
that the Lucas CEI ignition has the GM HEI module at its heart! What coil does 
the CEI system use? I have not found reference to any special HEI-style coil 
being used with the CEI. 

Does the CEI system have a special HEI module that limits current to something 
less than 5.5 amps? Or does it have a special HEI type coil? Or does it lose 
the ability to adjust dwell and current and become a plain transistor unit like 
the Boyer? 

Here, I am going to get a little technical. I was thinking I could make my own 
pseudo-HEI system by making a regular transistor switching unit, but then add a 
current limiter. This would be a "12 volt" system, but would use a 6 volt (1.5 
ohm) coil without a ballast resistor. The current limiter would replace the 
ballast resistor. The current would be limited to that which the coil would get 
at idle RPM with a ballast resistor.This allows the coil to saturate more 
quickly (or at higher revs, just be closer to saturation) and therefore would 
maintain spark energy to higher revs somewhat like what the HEI system does. 
Also, this design would allow more current to get to the coil when battery 
voltage is reduced during cranking, similar to the ballasted systems. From my 
calculations, I think I should be able to have double the spark energy at 
4000-5500 RPM. 

And then there is Capacitive Discharge. I can see that CDI would be a good 
design for very high RPM, like well over 5500. But I am skeptical that it adds 
anything compared to a well maintained Kettering (points or transistor) system 
at the RPMs we would have on the street with a maximum of 5500 RPM. I suspect 
that the very brief spark(s) of the CDI system may not ignite the mixture as 
well as a nice long 2-3 millisecond burn of an inductive system. The other 
reason that I am skeptical is that auto manufacturers continue to use inductive 
systems. They have gone to great lengths to do so, resorting to things like one 
coil per plug, coil-on-plug, etc. If CDI were superior, it seems to me that it 
would have been a LOT cheaper to use CDI than make these complicated inductive 
systems. 

I am looking for people's thoughts on these ignition systems. 

-Tony 

** triumphs@autox.team.net **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>