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Spitfire advance/retard (kinda long)

To: triumphs@Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Spitfire advance/retard (kinda long)
From: "George R. Parker" <gpark@crosslink.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:44:56 -0500
Hey Listers,

In my never-ending quest to get my Spitfire back on the road after a
2-year-long 6-month engine rebuild, I'm now trying to sort out the timing
problems.  It will run, but at low rpms or with timing set to about 10-12
degrees BTDC, the timing seems to bounce around quite a bit.  In fact, it
has a hard time running at that timing.  My Dad sent me the following from
an E-Type list, which seems to imply that mechanical advance only on a
street engine won't really work.  I should say that before the engine
rebuild, it ran fairly well, just no real power.  Idled fine, didn't stall
(after warm-up).  And it always only had mechanical advance (the vacuum
retard was never hooked up).  Here's what he sent:

-----------------

 << Can anyone explain the rationale and the effect
  of vacuum advance Vs vacuum retard? If any of us should be inclined to
  purchase a Mallory unilite, it would be nice to know the differences
  between the vacuum advance and the mechanical advance units that are
  available. >>
 Ok... Ignition 101: class is in session
 
 For every given design of engine, there is an optimum time to fire the spark
 plug. This optimum time produces the most efficient combustion, and the best
 power, while maintaining correct conditions to maximize engine life. (little
 or no engine knock)
 As RPM increases, this optimum point must occur earlier for the combustion to
 reach its full potential. It is a form of inertia in the combustion process.
 A centrifugal, or mechanical advance works strictly by RPM. the faster the
 engine turns, the more the spark is advanced by mechanical means... up to the
 limits built into the advance mechanism. Also, the design and weight of the
 advance flyweights and their springs determine the exact relationship of RPM
 to engine timing. This is called the advance curve.
 This type of advance works great for engines that have a given, fixed load,
 such as race engines, where they run flat out most of the time.
 The problem is that cars driven under normal road conditions see widely
 different loads, at all ranges of rpm. To maximize performance, and also
 economy, a method of optimizing engine spark advance in relationship to load
 as well as rpm is needed. This is where the vacuum advance comes in.
 engine intake manifold vacuum varies directly with engine load. When the
 engine is under full throttle, the carb butterflies are wide open, and as a
 result, manifold vacuum is low. When the car is coasting down a hill, with
 your foot off the gas, the carb butterflies are closed and manifold vacuum is
 high. Under normal cruise conditions, the engine vacuum is somewhere in
 between. Now if we hook up a line to the manifold, and connect that line to
 one side of a rubber diaphragm, and hook the other side of the diaphragm to
 the distributor, we now have a method of varying the advance in relationship
 to engine load. Below is the simplistic explanation of how it all works:
 Light load = high vacuum = more advance = greater economy
 heavy load = low vacuum = less advance = no destructive engine knock
 Now some newer engines use a combination of vacuum advance and vacuum retard,
 mainly for emissions control.
 Some Turbo charged engines use a pressure retard mechanism to retard the
 ignition timing at full manifold boost.
 The aim of all these systems is to have a method of varying ignition timing
 according to load. 
 Modern computer controlled ignition systems measure engine vacuum, throttle
 position, engine rpm, engine and outside temperature and engine knock
 detectors, to then compute the optimum advance to use.
 
 
 To put it briefly, the purpose of mechanical, (centrifugal) is to increase
the
 spark advance as rpm increases. The reason for this is that as rpm increases
 the time that piston spends near top dead center becomes shorter. The speed
of
 the combustion also increases with rpm but not rapidly enough to keep up with
 the faster moving piston. As a result, in order to make sure that maximum
 combustion pressure is developed at about 15 degrees after top dead center,
 the charge must be ignited earlier on the compression stroke. That's what
 centrifugal advance accomplishes.
 
 Vacuum advance compensates for a different combustion phenomenon. At part
 throttle, there is less charge in each cylinder than at full throttle. This
 less dense charge burns more slowly. Therefore, in order to compensate for
 this slower combustion, the spark must also be fired earlier on the
 compression stroke. This advance is achieved with a diaphragm that response
to
 manifold vacuum. Remember that at full throttle there is very little vacuum.
 As you back away from full throttle, intake manifold vacuum increases. This
 increase in vacuum moves the diaphragm and advances the spark to compensate.
 
 Vacuum retard moves the spark int he opposite direction and it was employed
as
 an emissions control device to sacrifice power and efficiency for reduced
 emissions at certain speed-load points.
 
-------------------

Someone not long ago asked about Spitfire advance/retard, but I don't
recall seeing any answer.  Can anyone comment on the above in general, or
my problem specifically (at the top)??

Thanks,

George Parker

George R. Parker          |  THINK -
AHNTECH, Inc.             |  It's good practice for when
(540)663-5936             |  the computer goes down.

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