On Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:57:31 -0500
"Bill Miller" <millerb@netusa1.net>
Wrote Subject: My Toledo Engine.
Thanks to all that replied about my "strange" engine number. I really
do appreciate it.
I'm trying to find out from the prior owner the history of this
engine. I'm really curious about it. However, I have a few questions
that the listers may be able to answer. This engine was made just for
the UK market, right? Does that mean anything to me? Is it designed
for leaded gas? Is it higher compression? Do I need to burn only
high octane gas? Hotter plugs? I have finally got this engine running
and it appears to be strong! (it's amazing what gas and oil will
mutate to when it sits for 8 years) I have never even heard of a
Toledo, I am just curious, was it a sedan, a sports car, or what. If
anybody knows a link to a picture of one, I would be interested in
looking at one.
Bill Miller
78 Spitfire FM73432U with a DM5063ESS engine
******************************************************
Hi Bill,
Despite the fact that I am no particular fan of the early 1970's Toledo per
se,
They ARE Triumphs, therefore I do have some interest!
And as you might imagine, very many Toledo mechanical parts are directly
interchangeable with those on my club's range of cars...ie: Herald, Vitesse,
Spitfire, GT6 etc...also many of our club members run Dolomites & Toledo's &
Triumph 1300's & Triumph 1500 saloons/sedans as other family cars...
I don't expect that many people even over here in the UK now realise that the
Toledo came with both two or four door bodyshells.
The story about the evolution of all these apparently similar Triumph Saloon
models is fairly complex...and came about as a result of mergers in the
British Motor industry throughout the 1960's...
The main variants were:
1)Triumph 1300 Saloon (1965-1970) 1296cc Front-Wheel Drive(Zenith-Stromberg)
(number built: 113,008 cars)
2)Triumph 1300TC Saloon (1967-1970) 1296cc Front-Wheel Drive. (2 x S.U.'s)
(number built: 35,342 cars)
Then with a different bodyshell came the...
3)Triumph 1500 Saloon (1970-1973) 1493cc Front-Wheel Drive (Single S.U.)
(number built: 66,353 cars)
4)Triumph Toledo Saloon (1970-1976) 1296cc Rear-Wheel Drive (Single S.U.)
(from March 1975 the two-door version was dropped)
5)Triumph Dolomite 1300 Saloon (1976-1981 ?) 1296cc Rear-Wheel Drive (S.U.)
(number built: 130,488 cars up to May 1978)
6)Triumph 1500TC Saloon (1973-beginning 1976)
then renamed as
7)Triumph 'Dolomite' 1500TC Saloon (1976-1981 ?) 1493cc (2 x S.U.'s)
(number built: 60,404 cars up to May 1978)
8)Triumph Dolomite 1850HL Saloon (Spring 1976-1981 ?) 1854cc
(2 x Zenith-Stromberg's, until Autumn 1973 when 2 x S.U.'s were fitted)
(number built: 71,405 cars up to May 1978)
9)Triumph Dolomite Sprint Saloon (1973-1981 ?) 1998cc/16-valves (2 x S.U.'s)
(number built: 20,232 cars up to May 1978)
There are still a fair few of these cars around here in the U.K., alas mostly
in scrap yards due to the ravages of rust, and unfortunately although many
families have fond memories of these cars, they are not really considered to
be collectors cars as such...although there is a small club for them.
The Toledo (Two-Door) cost 888 GBP and 15 shillings and threepence (888.76
GBP)
when new, and at that time, back in 1970, Triumph's catchphrase was
"Triumph put in what the others leave out".
(Mind you, I was only 11 years old then, so cannot really remember that!)
It says here: that a Toledo engine has 4-cylinders, 73.7mm x 76mm, 1296cc,
with a compression-ratio of 8.5:1 and one S.U. Carb', developing 58 bhp at
5300 rpm, and max torque of 70lb ft at 3000 rpm.
c/w a 1971 Spitfire Mk.IV (USA version), 1296cc, developing 58 bhp at 5200
rpm, and max torque of 72lb ft at 3000 rpm, with one Zenith-Stromberg Carb.
c/w a 1978 Spitfire 1500 (USA version), 1493cc, with a compression-ratio of
7.5:1, developing 57 bhp at 5000 rpm, and max torque of 74lb ft at 3000 rpm
and with one
Zenith-Stromberg Carb.
So that may be what you have, that is of course, assuming that the factory
didn't fit a Spitfire Camshaft & matching Distributor as your engine was being
fitted to a Spitfire...personally, I think that the original engine in your
car may have been faulty/damaged in some way, and replaced with the one that
you now have fitted to your car...
Personally, in my experience, the 1296cc engine that you have is preferably to
the later 1493cc unit which is renowned to be a less reliable unit due to the
longer stroke and bearing-drag, as well as much heavier flywheel...
Here endeth the history lesson.
Best Wishes
Leon F Guyot
Triumph Sports Six Club
International Liaison Secretary.
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