No, Dave
You weren't talking out of your bum at all! You were providing important
information of which others might have been largely or completely unaware.
I just thought that before everything became cast in bronze and people
started taking things 'as gospel' because they'd read it somewhere, I'd
better put in a few correctors - with the best possible intentions.
I was aware of SS meaning Swallow Sidecar. It also had unfortunate links
with another far more sinister organisation which shared its initials -
Staat Sicherheitspolizei? It was primarily because of this, that William
Lyons (long before being dubbed by His Majesty) undertook a fairly sudden
name change when he found out what the other SS were up to. Jaguar, in
their own museum have two or three just pre-war saloons in which the
radiator winged badge says SS Jaguar or Jaguar SS - I forget the order.
I think that's about all I can contribute to the matter.
John
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From: Dave Massey <105671.471@compuserve.com>
To: INTERNET:jonmac@ndirect.co.uk; TR List <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Subject: Sir John Black, Sir William Lyons, Triumph name transfer etc
Date: 14 March 1998 16:03
There I go again, talking out my bum. Its been years since I read this and
some of the
details are a bit vague. The main point I wanted to make is that Sir John
Black tried to
buy Morgan and after being rebuffed he bought the rights to Triumph. And
the rest is ,
as they say, history.
Dave
P.S. Did you know the SS stands for Swallow Sidecar?
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Dave
If I might interject on your recent thread about the Standard Motor Company
interface with Jaguar - then SS Cars? While I wouldn't challenge you on the
source document you recommended for reading, perhaps I could attempt to
straighten out what might possibly become mis-information over a period of
time.
1. Sir John Black never owned the Standard Motor Company. The original
owner and founder before Black's time was a man called Reginald Maudslay.
It was through him that the company became known as STANDARD because he
wanted to make cars to the highest possible standard. Unfortunately, the
word Standard has different connotations in different parts of the world -
and that is why true Standard Cars when sold in North America (the Eight,
Ten and Pennant) were more usually known as Triumphs, when in fact they
were Standards through and through. Black, a former Army Captain and a
qualified lawyer was brought in by the Main Board before the war to do what
he could to steer the company out of bankruptcy. He succeeded and my own
father was a very close friend and colleague.
Throughout Black's time at Standard, I think I am correct in saying it was
a public company, financially precarious perhaps but nonetheless public.
2. Certainly, there was rivalry between Black and Lyons at Jaguar.
Remember, Lyons when he moved SS to Coventry was selling highly attractive
(for the day) motorcycle side-cars and this business rapidly extended to
building delightful body variations on other manufacturers chassis and
engine/driveline assemblies. It was obviously an attractive proposition for
Lyons to do this because he avoided development costs of his own. Standard
(under Black's direction) not only made their own cars but also sold these
complete running chassis to SS/Jaguar and another local bodybuilder called
Avon. Indeed, the ubiquitous Jaguar six cylinder XK twin cam engine on
which Bill Heynes and his team worked such wondrous miracles, actually
started life as a Standard inline six cylinder side valve of 2.5 litres. It
was Heynes' skills that took that same engine into entirely new stages of
development and performance. As the world knows, Jaguar went its own way
and ............ (now its a Ford)
3. Finally, I must challenge your comment (if I have understood it) that
Triumph came to Standard as a possible challenge to Jaguar. It may well
have done as part of the Black/Lyons rivalry but the real issue is that
Triumph as an entity went bust and Black got to it before Lyons. Indeed
there is a climate of opinion in Coventry to this day that had Jaguar
bought Triumph, the Triumph name might have adversely affected Jaguar's
image and possibly might have led to a two tier Jaguar range - i.e. the
expensive-er and the cheap-er. As things turned out, on the longer term, I
feel that Triumph did better in Black's hands than it might have done in
Lyons's - but what once was, has now gone - for ever and no-one will ever
know.
John Macartney
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