snip> As an immediate suggestion, dump the dual exhaust,
> that's costing you
> power.
Please explain why this is true...
Dave Gebhard
1977 Spit building power on a budget!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Thompson" <epharisto@yahoo.com>
To: <spitfires@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
>
> I don't know about 10,000 hp out of a single over head
> cam four cylinder with about 100 cubic inches of
> displacement, but I'd have to agree with every other
> comment Nolan made.
>
> There's so many options and combinations of parts now
> for spitfire blocks, it's difficult to say what is the
> best set-up. I've been beating my head against a wall
> trying to decide.
>
> Most people choose to work with what they have and
> what is proven by using the Triumph Competition Prep
> Manuals. You'd use existing blocks, heads and cranks
> that are machined for balance, weight reduction and
> flow. And upgrade to over-sized pistons (TR6), sport
> cam, and higher flow carbs.
>
> But if you want to spend some deneiro, there are
> forged and aluminum pistons ($500), chrome-moly
> connecting rods ($700), billet cranks ($3k), titanium
> valves ($400), quad carb setups ($1k) or electronic
> ignition systems ($2k), superchargers ($2k) and
> six-hundred dollar roller-rockers that will work on a
> spitfire engine. And you can spend some good money on
> ceramic coatings (especially if you start coating
> everything including timing chains and roller rockers
> etc.)
>
> First: try and set a limit to what you are willing to
> spend. Then look at all of the options that are out
> there, and decide which ones will fit within your
> budget. (make sure you figure in some buffer for
> incidentals like hardware gaskets etc.)
>
> Then take the list of items that you think will work,
> and ask someone like Mike Lewis of Protius or Ted
> Schumacher of TSI if it's a good plan to put those
> pieces together. Some things are sort of common
> sense...like buying a $2000 super charger and using it
> on a ZS carb and stock cam...probably not the best use
> of your $2000.
>
> You can easily surpass $10,000.00 on parts and
> services alone if you add it all up.
>
> In the least you should have the block and head
> hot-tanked and magnafluxed. And consider shotpeening
> on cylinder walls. Machining the engine as described
> in the competition prep manual is not the cheapest
> thing but does improve upon an already proven engine
> design.
>
> Companies like PAECO will sell you a stage 1,2,3,4
> engine but the stage 1's (pretty stock except for a
> hotter road cam and head porting as well as balancing)
> start around $3,000. The stage 2s are around $5,000
> and the 3's and 4's they don't list because it depends
> on what performance components you choose. The above
> prices also required your old engine as a trade in.
>
> Now for other problems. Let's say you've gone ahead
> and spent $10,000 on your engine and it's built
> producing close to 200 horses. I'd like to start a $1
> pool and see who can guess how long it will take
> before you tear the differential or transmission out
> of your car when you excellerate too fast.
>
> The triumph components are well made, but even the
> works spitfires with their estimated 100 hp, had
> modified TR4 tranny components for more beefiness. In
> the least, such an engine will probably go through
> U-joints at an alarming rate and torsion on other
> components like your drive-shaft and half axles will
> take it's toll. Not to mention that such an engine
> requires lots of care and upkeep beyond that of a
> stock TR. Constant adjustments to roller rockers and
> valves are gaurenteed.
>
> I'm not trying to discourage you. Just that there's a
> whole lot to think about, and no one out there has yet
> been able to say "this is the best combination". I'm
> still (after 4 months) mulling over my twenty thousand
> dollar list of options to decide which items I'm
> willing to take a chance on and which I'm going to
> red-line to bring the whole concept into budget.
>
> I'm actually shooting for a HP range but it's
> difficult to tell what sort of affect/effect (?) these
> parts will have to boost hp. If it's marginal (Eh,
> you'll get another 5 horses out of that $3,000.00
> part) then off list it goes. Especially since everyone
> you talk to has a different opinion about what is good
> hp value for the dollar.
>
> But then the greatest fear is spending several
> thousands of dollars on engine components, then
> getting it bench dyno-tested and instead of your 57
> bhp, you get a 59 hp. Or what is probably even worse
> and more likely, you over-shoot your optimal HP goal
> and your having to crawl everywhere so you don't tear
> out your drive-train. Then there's always the
> possibility that someone didn't torque something right
> and you throw a $250 forged piston head through your
> $2000 ported, polished, titanium valved, ceramic
> coated head (and your recently painted bonnet to
> boot).
>
> -Terry
> "Oh...Those are speed holes. They make the car go
> faster" - Homer Simpson
>
> --- Nolan Penney <npenney@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> > There's an old saying "speed costs money, how fast
> > can you afford to
> > go?" It's as valid today, with you, as it was then.
> > If you've got the
> > money, you can get 10,000 horsepower out of that
> > engine. Gonna cost you
> > upwards of half to a full million dollars, but it
> > can be done. I say
> > that to point out the folly of your question. You
> > need to put some
> > parameters in it. What kind of money do you want to
> > spend? What kind
> > of performance do you want? What about life
> > expectency? These things
> > all sway the modifications. After all, nitros and
> > 40psi of boost are
> > great power increasers, but life expectency is
> > rather short.
> >
> > As far as every trick in the book, pick up every
> > engine book ever
> > written, and study them. Then, you will no most of
> > the tricks in the
> > book for squeezing power out of your engine. And as
> > soon as you've done
> > that, know you're out of date immediately, because
> > in the time it took
> > you to read these words, at least 60 new tricks have
> > been discovered or
> > improved on.
> >
> > As an immediate suggestion, dump the dual exhaust,
> > that's costing you
> > power. Then do some serious tuning (how did you
> > select the needles?
> > what is your advance curve? etc)
>
>
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