Hi Dave,
David Kernberger wrote:
> 1/13/02
>
> Paul, Peter,
>
> Thanks for your responses. Not spring here yet but the first tree
> blossoms usually show up about mid-February.
But the mustard seems to show up in the vineyards early, too and I always loved
that bright yellow early in the season. I had to mow my lawn last Friday. It
was
getting so long I was afraid of lurking tigers in the grass!.
>
>
> 30 years ago, I rebuilt my first Spridget 1100 engine (10CC engine
> number prefix--2" main bearings) to put into my 61 Morris pickup. I had no
> ribcase trannies but had plenty of smoothcase ones. So, in spite of
> warnings of lack of strength, I decided to try using a smoothcase. I
> figured I could always acquire a ribcase unit if the smoothie did not work
> out. I did the same thing for my 61 Van about 3 or 4 years later. Over
> all those years I have not encountered any problems due to transmission
> weakness. They are both still going strong. Engines are stock and I am
> not a hotrodder though I do occasionally wind my way through the gears just
> for the heck of it.
The early 1098's supplied in the Morris used rib case trans with a 948 type
clutch
cover and disc. That way no grinding on the case was needed. Later, when the
rib
cases were used, there was an oval type rubber plug near the top of the rib case
bell housing. This was needed because with the extra space left inside to
accommodate the bulkier 1098 clutch cover, it would sometimes hit the Morris
steering rack. With the oval cut out and the rubber plug, if the rubber hit the
rack, no noise!
>
>
> When setting up the first one, I found need to do a small bit of
> grinding inside the clutch housing to clear the clutch. Also, I determined
> that the clutch throwout arm would have to be bent a small amount but that
> all worked out just fine. The question of shaft length and pilot bearing
> fit never occured to me until just now (2002). I do not recall ever
> hearing anybody address the issue before nor do I recall seeing it in any
> Minor News or Minorgram. I just left the thick plate on and never gave it
> any thought. On the van I just repeated the earlier procedure.
I can remember many heated discussions about this at nearly all the Morris
meets,
including the Palo Alto meet. Lots of rib cases behind 948 and thin plates bit
the
dust prematurely. Also lots of smooth cases behind warmed up 1275s never
lasted.
>
>
> So I guess I am a bit lucky, though obviously it would be more
> support for the input shaft and more wearing surface for the pilot bearing,
> if that shaft went all the way home. We have traveled many long trips in
> these cars, so my experience is based on more than just short commuting.
While traveling in 4th, there is little strain on the input shaft by not being
in
full contact with the pilot bush. If you take it easy on the smooth case, it
will
last a quite a while. You're testimony to that.
>
>
> If I tried using the thin 948 plate on this combination, it appears
> I would have even more clutch/housing interferance. Meanwhile you say it
> won't fit the 2" main 1100 blocks. Is this because the soldered oil pump
> cover is not deep enough???
No, it would need some relieving of metal so it would fit over the larger rear
main
cap and the crescent shaped piece above it Do that and it should fit.
> Nor do I understand when you say the 1275 oil
> pump is in a different location. Aren't all A series oil pumps at the rear
> end of the camshaft??
Yup, they're all at the end of the camshaft, but the camshaft on the 1275 is
not in
the same location as it is in the 948/1098 engine. And as the 1275 oil pump
cover
is larger also than the 1098, the 1098 cover won't bridge the gap on the edge of
the block recess where the oil pump is located.
>
>
> So, what better way might there be to mate the smoothcase tranny to
> the 2" main 1100 cc engine? Maybe the only real solution would be to weld
> an extension on to the input shaft and machine it down for a correct fit in
> the pilot bearing.
If you've made a smooth case last as long as you have on your engines, I think
that
you have already hit on the better way!!! I don't think I would attempt to
weld on
an extension and have a machine shop grind it down.
What engine did you have in the Van?
Another option when you run out of smooth/ribcases, is the Datsun 4 or 5 speed
conversion.
Regards, Paul A
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave Kernberger
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> >Hi Dave,
> >
> >Spring in the Napa valley yet? Wonderful time of year, then.
> >
> >The thin vs thick plate. Because the rib case trans, all, have a longer
> >input
> >shaft, you need to mount it on the thick plate. If you mount it on a thin
> >plate,
> >there is the possibility of not having a neutral as the input shaft might
> >jam in
> >the bottom of the pilot bush area against the crankshaft. Not good!
> >
> >If you want to mount a smooth case on an engine with a thick backing
> >plate, the
> >input shaft just wouldn't fit all the way in the pilot bush. Usually a
>smooth
> >case behind a 1098 or 1275 is not a long life setup as there is more torque
> >developed in these engines than the trans was designed for and it has a weak
> >pocket bushing in the input shaft.
> >
> >Keep in mind that there are 3 types of thick engine backing plates. The 1098
> >1-3/4" main, the 1098 2" main. You can use the 2" main plate on the
> >1-3/4" main
> >engine, but not the other way around. The 1275 plate is for the 1275, but
> >can be
> >used on the 1098s if you use a 1275 back plate gasket and 1275 oil pump
>cover.
> >The 1275 has the oil pump in a different location than the 1098s but the
> >bigger
> >1275 cover and different gasket will work OK.
> >
> >The thin plates will work only on the 948 and the 1-3/4" main 1098. This oil
> >pump cover is soldered in place on the plate.
> >
> >Does this help answer your question?
> >
> >Regards, Paul A
> >
> >
> >David Kernberger wrote:
> >
> >> 1/10/02
> >>
> >> To the group,
> >>
> >> 1100 cc Spridget (maybe 1275 cc as well) engines have a thicker
> >> plate between engine and gearbox than do the 948 Morris minors. I have
> >> known this for a long time but only recently realized it brings up a
> >> question. Does this mean the ribcase gearbox, used on 1100s and 1275s, has
> >> a longer input shaft than do the smoothcase trannies used on the 948s????
> >> Also, does this mean that fitting a smoothcase box to an engine with the
> >> thick plate will result in a shaft which does not enter the pilot bushing
> >> completely???
> >>
> >> Or this thickness difference taken care of in some other way, such
> >> as machining material of the rear face of the engine block?? I would
> >> really like to know just what the situation is.
> >>
> >> TIA.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Dave Kernberger
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