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Re: Re: 3 brush dynamo

To: <mg-mmm@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: Re: 3 brush dynamo
From: <hiro@octagongarage.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:18:02 +0900
Reply-to: <hiro@octagongarage.com>
Sender: owner-mg-mmm@autox.team.net
Dear Pip,

I still had little problem of oil leak from Cyl.head after 
modern seal conversion, so I add another seal at he bottom of 
vertical drive housing (upper york needs to be machined as 
well), it perfectly works.

Best regards,
Hiro

> 
> From: "Pip Bucknell" <mgwizard@caloundra.net>
> Date: 2002/10/31 木 午前 06:45:20 GMT+09:00
> To: "Pat Mullen" <pmullen@telus.net>
> Subject: Re: 3 brush dynamo
> 
> Pat,
> 
> That is a nice, clear and simple explanation.
> 
> Thank you for your contribution.
> 
> There is one other issue that I have found important to the 
operation of the generator.  It is not electrical but it is 
important.  That is the problem of oil leaking from the 
overhead drive.
> 
> I have held the belief for a long time that it is static 
leaking that causes the major problem.  I say this, because 
when the engine is running at speed, any oil problem is thrown 
out by the spinning generator yolks & other fittings and can be 
seen on the radiator.  However when the engine is not running, 
the oil finds its way into the generator and seems to cause 
numerous problems.
> 
> Many of us have made alterations to the oil seal for the 
overhead drive.  My mechanic changed mine from the common 
practise and we have never had a problem.  I have taken the 
engine to 8500 revs on a number of occasions when I have become 
"excited" and this does not seem to worry the generator at 
all.
> 
> Anyhow, again, thank you for your contribution.
> 
> Hopefully we will be back in Canada in another few years and 
we can see the progress on the NB.  Regards
> 
> Pip
> AUSTRALIA
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Pat Mullen 
>   To: hiro@octagongarage.com 
>   Cc: mg-mmm@autox.team.net 
>   Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:02 AM
>   Subject: Re: 3 brush dynamo
> 
> 
>   Hi Hiro,
> 
>   How good to hear of a fellow MMM enthusiast who REALLY 
drives his car!
>   (I used to own a 1933 J2 and then a 1934 J2 in 1952-54 when 
I was a
>   student in England - I am now a Canadian with a 1936 NB 
nearing the end
>   of a complete restoration).
> 
>   For some 30 years, between about 1936 to 1965 prior to the 
advent of
>   alternators, and after the MMM cars had finished 
production, British
>   cars controlled the VOLTAGE output from their dynamos with a
>   "Compensated Voltage Control" (CVC) device. This measured 
the dynamo
>   output voltage; the CVC control mechanism was placed in 
series with the
>   dynamo field coil, between the dynamo + and - terminals. 
There was no
>   "third brush". It worked quite well.
> 
>   Prior to this, in the days of our MMM cars in the early 
1930s and
>   before, the CURRENT was controlled by the third brush 
method in such a
>   way that changes in engine speed made comparatively little 
change to the
>   current supplied from the dynamo.
>   The only ways to control the current on an MMM car were by 
>   (a) moving the third brush while doing maintenance on the 
car
>   (b) switching resistance and or out of the field coil 
circuit, usually
>   using the lighting switch.
> 
>   Here is an explanation of how method (a) worked on a 
negative ground
>   ("earth") car like our MMMs:
>   1. On ANY dynamo, third brush or CVC, there is a magnetic 
field whose
>   lines of force pass from one field coil to another, because 
one field
>   coil is wound to produce a North pole on its inside face 
and the other
>   field coil is wound to produce a South pole on ITS inside 
face. Such a
>   dynamo at rest (but with the field coils' slight magnetism 
remaining
>   from the last time they were energised) has straight lines 
of magnetic
>   force.
>   (The same principle applies to dynamos with four field 
coils - like my
>   NB's dynamo. I'm unsure  if your J2 has two or four field 
coils)  
>   2. As the dynamo starts to revolve, it generates voltage; 
as this
>   voltage increases, current flows in the armature wires; 
this in turn
>   creates another, revolving, magnetic field which distorts 
the field
>   produced by the field coils.
>   3. This distortion does not seriously affect the output of 
a dynamo
>   designed to work with CVC, because the CVC is in control.
>   4. This type of distortion can be made to control the 
dynamo CURRENT
>   output if it can be made to REDUCE THE STRENGTH OF THE 
EFFECTIVE
>   MAGNETIC FIELD in the same proportion as the SPEED OF 
ARMATURE ROTATION
>   INCREASES.
>   5. This can be accomplished by connecting one end of the 
field coil
>   circuit to the positive output brush (as with the CVC 
dynamo) and the
>   other end to a third, movable brush connected near the 
negative output
>   brush in such a manner that any one segment of the armature 
passes the
>   third brush just before it passes the negative output brush.
>   6. As you might expect, the nearer together the two brushes 
are, the
>   higher the current output of the dynamo.
>   7. Note that the third brush method of control is much 
better than NO
>   control but it is inferior to CVC.
>    This is because whether the (battery plus lights etc) 
needs more or
>   less
>   current to maintain the correct 13.5 volts, the dynamo 
doesn't know or
>   care.
>   If the dynamo is set to produce about 8 amps at engine 
speeds above
>   about 1500rpm, and your ignition coil takes 2 of these 
amps, AND you
>   have no lights or any other electrical load, then the 
dynamo forces the
>   remaining 6 amps through the ammeter and into your battery.
>   This is bad if you drive 1000km at 100kmph because your 
battery gets
>   overcharged, hence overheated, and may well get bent plates 
inside as
>   well as boiling off of much of the acid.
>   It is also bad if you set the third brush to produce about 
4 amps AND
>   you have your side & headlights on, thus taking 8 amps in 
addition to
>   the ignition coil's 2 amps. You will then be discharging 
the battery at
>   about 6 amps - let's hope you don't get caught in heavy 
traffic!
> 
>   I haven't tried this, but I imagine that if you install a 
voltmeter in
>   the car, and switch resistance in and out of the field coil 
circuit so
>   as to keep the voltmeter indicating as near 13.5 volts as 
possible, you
>   would have most of the advantages of a CVC dynamo, (but 
with one serious
>   disadvantage if you are forgetful like me).
> 
>   Hope this helps.
> 
>   Cheers ...... Pat Mullen (1936 MG 2-seater NA0895)
>     
> 
>   hiro@octagongarage.com wrote:
>   > 
>   > Hi,
>   > 
>   > We had largest MG event in Japan on Saturday 26th, and I
>   > participated with my J2. The return trip was just 1000km
>   > (625miles), my J2 happyly cruised around 60mph - just one 
thing
>   > I noticed, maybe oil pump relief valve was sticking since
>   > pressure when cold become over 160LB!
>   > 
>   > On the way to the site the third brush of my J2 dymano was
>   > broken up in pieces (as you know it is very thin), then I 
had
>   > to purchase a spare battery.
>   > 
>   > Does someone explain me what is the mechanism of this 
type of
>   > dynamo?
>   > 
>   > Hiro
>   > Kobe-Japan
>   > 
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