Greg,
Your last parargraph is the correct statement. You seem to be reading too
much into a very simple deal. The reason that CNG & LPG are allowed to run
in gas classes is that we probabally get one entry every 5 - 10 years using
these fuels. There are other safety considerations to be taken if using
these fuels also. There doesn't seem to be any rational for creating a
couple hundred classes for alternate fuel vehicles when there is no
interest. If in fact the alternate fuels are the latest answer, where are
the entries?
Dan(fuel for thought) Warner
----- Original Message -----
From: Hyatt Engineering Ltd. <Hyatt-Engineering-Ltd@fuse.net>
To: John Beckett <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>; <land-speed@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: Nitropropane
> John,
>
> It's in II-2, "Approved fuels are: Nitrous Oxide, nitromethane, alcohol
and
> non-approved gasoline."
> But to make things really confusing in the next paragraph you find,
"Engines
> using CNG, LPG or diesel may compete in gasoline classes", even though
LPG,
> CNG, and Diesel were not on the list of approved fuels.
> This would seem to indicate that a car running on LPG and nitrous would
not
> be legal in any class, fuel or gas, as the nitrous excludes it from gas,
and
> LPG is not on the approved list for fuel ???
> Worse yet, by the letter of the law it seems illegal to run approved
> gasoline in combination with nitrous in the fuel classes, again approved
> gasoline is not on the list of legal fuels for fuel classes. Obviously
that
> was not the intent of the rules as it is done all the time, but it seems
to
> be what the book says.
> On the other hand there do not seem to be any limitations on additives (in
> fuel classes), so perhaps gasoline with nitropropane added is just
> considered non-approved gasoline ??? Is anything still just an additive
if
> you are using large percentages of it, like 49% ???
> Do you think it was the intent of the rules to allow any fuel in the fuel
> classes, and the list in II-2 is just incomplete ?
>
> Even more confused than usual, Greg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
> To: "Hyatt Engineering Ltd." <Hyatt-Engineering-Ltd@fuse.net>;
> <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 8:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Nitropropane
>
>
> > Could be wrong here but I don't think there is a list of legal fuels for
> > fuel class. Just legal gasoline for the gas class.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hyatt Engineering Ltd." <Hyatt-Engineering-Ltd@fuse.net>
> > To: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>;
> > <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 6:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: Nitropropane
> >
> >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > Nitropropane is manufactured by:
> > > Angus Chemical Company
> > > 1500 E. Lake Cook Road
> > > Buffalo Grove Road, IL 60089
> > > Phone: 708-215-8600
> > > But they do not sell is small retail quantities. However Angus is
also
> > the
> > > major producer of nitromethane, so most of the folks selling nitro buy
> it
> > > from Angus and could also get the nitropropane for you.
> > > It's ability to be mixed with gas would seem to make it desirable for
> > anyone
> > > wanting to run in both gas and fuel classes with minimum modifications
> (if
> > > it was on the list of legal fuels).
> > >
> > > Greg
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
> > > To: "Hyatt Engineering Ltd." <Hyatt-Engineering-Ltd@fuse.net>;
> > > <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 1:57 PM
> > > Subject: Fuel
> > >
> > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > > Have read some material on nitropropane. I understand that it
> mixes
> > > well
> > > > with gasoline. Have only heard of it being used in the 15% to 20%
> range,
> > > but
> > > > don't know why you couldn't uses it at 50%. There may be some big
> > > > differences between nitro and gas vs. nitro and alcohol that has
lead
> > all
> > > > the racers to run nitromethane today.
> > > > In small percentages may actually be easier to run your vehicle
> with
> > > > gasoline rather than alcohol. So where can one find nitropropane?
> > > >
> > > > John Beckett, LSR #79
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Hyatt Engineering Ltd." <Hyatt-Engineering-Ltd@fuse.net>
> > > > To: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>;
> <ARDUNDOUG@aol.com>;
> > > > <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 9:40 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: MSD Detonation Detector and Cockpit Display Meter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > John,
> > > > > Back in the 50s some of the producers of nitro proposed using it
in
> > fuel
> > > > for
> > > > > on-highway vehicles, and did a lot of research into controlling
> knock
> > to
> > > > > make it streatable. They used lab type "detonation detectors",
high
> > > > > frequency accelerometers with data acquisition systems, to
observe
> > the
> > > > > knock. The conclusions were that nitromethane should always be
used
> > in
> > > > > blends with nitropropane (usually around 50/50). The nitropropane
> > helped
> > > > > enormously in controlling the knock, for reasons that were not
quite
> > > > > understood.
> > > > > While I bring this up primarily to point out that properly
> calibrated
> > > > > detonation detectors can certainly be useful with nitrous, (I
> suspect
> > > the
> > > > > commercially available units are just calibrated for more
> conventional
> > > > > applications, or are sized incorrectly and are "clipping" on the
> high
> > > > > amplitude content of the spectrum), it prompts a few questions and
> > > > > observations of my own:
> > > > > Why is nitropropane not included in the list of legal fuels ? By
all
> > > > > accounts I can find it is much more stable. While it has a lower
> > oxygen
> > > > > content than nitromethane and makes less power when run undiluted,
> > > anyone
> > > > > running a mix could just use more of it.
> > > > > Does anyone run undiluted or lightly diluted nitro on the salt ?
> Most
> > > of
> > > > > the folks I have spoken to run weak mixes, under 25% nitro, but I
do
> > not
> > > > > know how typical this is.
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
> > > > > To: <ARDUNDOUG@aol.com>; <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 8:21 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: MSD Detonation Detector and Cockpit Display Meter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Doug
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From what little I know about these things they work great on
> > street
> > > > > > cars...are marginal on race cars...and I would guess about
useless
> > > with
> > > > > > nitro.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John Beckett, LSR #79
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: <ARDUNDOUG@aol.com>
> > > > > > To: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 3:55 PM
> > > > > > Subject: MSD Detonation Detector and Cockpit Display Meter
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Group,
> > > > > > > Has any body out there used the MSD detonation sensor on
> nitro
> > > > that
> > > > > > has a
> > > > > > > readout in the cockpit for the driver to see. Chuck Salmen has
> one
> > > on
> > > > > his
> > > > > > > $um-Fun gas roadster and he likes it. What I don't know is how
> > they
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > react to nitro which is on the verge of detonating at all
times.
> > > > > > > Anybody had any
> experience?...............................Doug
> > > > King
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
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