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Maybe I shouldn=E2=80=99t have used the word =E2=80=9Cclone=E2=80=9D. =
Even though it made me wonder.=20
Richard Mayor
boyracer466@gmail.com
> On Dec 17, 2023, at 4:06 PM, richard mayor <boyracer466@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> The fact that it=E2=80=99s a BN1 chassis (no flanges on the shocks =
tower) is certainly a red flag and I think that anyone who caught that =
discrepancy should feel obligated to inform prospective buyers. If =
you=E2=80=99re gonna clone a 100M, at least do it on a BN2 chassis. =
Right? =20
>=20
> Rick is spot on. =E2=80=9CIf a seller doesn=E2=80=99t want honest =
opinions, go offer it somewhere else=E2=80=A6.. =E2=80=9C. =20
>=20
> Richard Mayor
> boyracer466@gmail.com
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Dec 17, 2023, at 3:29 PM, HealeyRick <healeyrik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Craig,
>>=20
>> Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk a tightrope between helping =
bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a seller's sale. I won't comment on =
a sale of someone I know because I don't want to be accused of puffing =
their sale or OTOH submarining one that is being offered by a friend. If =
a seller doesn't want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere else and =
stay off BaT. Someone who benefitted from your advice should be =
thankful. It's not supposed to be a cheerleading squad every time a =
person puts a car up for auction.
>>=20
>> Happy Healeydays,
>> Rick Neville
>>=20
>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper =
>> Re: Recent 100 M on BaT
>>=20
>> Rick and Bob: I did it. I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that =
there is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen =
other issues that went unanswered. Being incredulous at the number of =
issues on the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being =
presented, I showed the pictures to my fellow Healey 100 obsessed =
neighbor who said "Aren't those BN1 shock towers?" I had also recently =
watched the walk around video and simply couldn't contain myself. Maybe =
it would have been better to just reach out to the seller, but I didn't =
think of that until just now. Contrary to being savage, I think my =
remarks showed restraint. There is a lot more there, and I didn't =
mention any of the top side problems. (Bob, I laughed when I read your =
"ashtray delete" remark) I think the open discussion of shortcomings of =
cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer and the seller. Imagine the =
embarrassment of a neophyte Healey 100 enthusiast having paid top =
dollar for this car entering it in a concours ("would be welcome and do =
well in any concours") and having it judged to AH Club USA concours =
standards, or more likely declined to be judged. Think he might seek =
legal remedy? I wouldn't want to be the guy who sold it to him.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM =
wrote:
>> Send Healeys mailing list submissions to
>>=20
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> healeys-request@autox.team.net =
>>=20
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>>=20
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Healeys digest..."
>> Today's Topics:
>>=20
>> 1. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)
>> 2. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)
>> 3. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (rfbegani@gmail.com =
>> 4. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (David Masucci)
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Cc:=20
>> Bcc:=20
>> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>> On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:
>> > Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take =
over=20
>> > the registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of =
doing=20
>> > so came up and we decided that the price of admission was way too =
high=20
>> > for something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work =
involved.
>>=20
>> Try running Team Net for 30+ years!
>>=20
>> mjb.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net =
>> Cc: Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com =
>> Bcc:=20
>> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>> Rick,
>>=20
>> Last I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another =
listing for this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as =
having a replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have =
no issues with it; it is, essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) =
reduced price. The commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he =
knows what s/he got, and is happy with it, that's great.
>>=20
>> Bob
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>> Bob,
>>>=20
>>> As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for the =
Healey Marque this 100M discussion has been really helpful and =
interesting. I think your comment " I was surprised Bill let the =
incorrect carbs and distributor slide " raises a great question of what =
exactly is the 100M certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an =
article on what needs to be presented to be certified. =
https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf=C2=A0 =
<https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf> But =
it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that it left the =
factory with. I find it interesting there's no necessity for pictures of =
the engine number. And even if all the body parts, carbs, and =
distributor aren't there, Bill says in the article "If some of these =
items are missing, let the Registry know. It normally does not prevent =
registration provided enough ID points are present." So my impression, =
which I'll try to verify with Bill, is the certification is focused on =
the question whether this is the car that left the factory that matches =
the BMIHT certificate saying it had a louvered hood and not so much on =
whether it still has all the original parts an M would have come with.
>>> I think one of the benefits of the BaT comments for buyers =
(and probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out major =
deficiencies with an offering. Some buyer might have paid way more this =
car than it would be worth if not for the "savage" comments.
>>>=20
>>> Happy Healeydays
>>> Rick Neville
>>>=20
>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention =
that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>>>=20
>>> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is =
worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever =
someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely =
interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days =
'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number of =
Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine =
Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).=20
>>>=20
>>> =46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:
>>>=20
>>> =
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf =
<https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-H=
eritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>>>> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new =
car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of =
what might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.
>>>>=20
>>>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?
>>>>=20
>>>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').
>>>>=20
>>>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).=20
>>>>=20
>>>> bs
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't =
that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.=20
>>>>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance =
modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily =
copied, then I would consider them be very special.
>>>>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be =
surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
>>>>> Just my opinion.=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> M
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, =
>>>>> What makes a 100M?=20
>>>>> Very good question and not easy to answer.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price =
category is significantly higher than the normal 100,=20
>>>>> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily =
modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and=20
>>>>> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis =
would be such a major modification for me, as would a=20
>>>>> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber =
carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a=20
>>>>> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey =
100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
>>>>> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car =
is. It's a special model with a little more=20
>>>>> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an =
Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Josef Eckert
>>>>> Germany
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>>>> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>>>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>>>> An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik@gmail.com =
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which =
may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better =
M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but =
I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M =
body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an =
earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full =
disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been =
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they =
cars or rock bands).
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that =
caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it =
needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body =
parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis =
plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body =
parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with =
non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent =
Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some =
pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis =
and still bring big money at auction.=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer has =
its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as =
an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a =
Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. =
Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much =
of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original =
carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an =
original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the =
rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there =
is still a 100M cam in the lump!
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell =
>>>>> Excellent report, thank you.=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, =
since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could =
only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely =
original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One =
thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified =
this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, =
looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? =
Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value =
shouldbe less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what =
did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do =
you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the =
proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>>>> If you were following it recently, you might find my observations =
interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him =
determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the =
BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 =
bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock =
towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. =
The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were =
replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD =
relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different =
directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of =
then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just =
below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that =
was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care =
to try and make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with =
that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the =
firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the =
firewall, you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what =
would be a BN2 relay position.=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they =
appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate =
appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct =
M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was =
replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to =
the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped =
off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows =
some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make =
out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, =
but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously =
clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that =
would be for someone else to decide.=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I simply =
don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks =
old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>>>> =20
>>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some =
effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a =
BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to =
fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. =
Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the =
BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car =
correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is =
straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a =
very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of =
experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the =
quality of the restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to =
shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd =
think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=20=
>>>>> =20
>>>>> The Millers
>>>>> =20
>>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a =
test drive."
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
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<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>>>=20
>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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>>>>>=20
>>>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
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>>>>>=20
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
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<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>>>=20
>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
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>>>>=20
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
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<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>>=20
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<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>>>=20
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>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
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>>>=20
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>>>=20
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>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Bcc:=20
>> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>> Dear Josef:
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Your comments are the same in the USA especially in Florida where =
there are large numbers of retired people. My good friend and President =
of our British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said =
that younger people want Japanese or European sports cars. It is the =
same for those who enjoy boating. Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old. =
I had to give away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our =
summer home on Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort. =
I still have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida =
and will continue to sail in accordance with the agreement with my wife =
that I will not sail alone. =20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very large and growing =
thanks to the efforts of Hermann who revived the club. He is a born =
salesman and a lover of old sports cars.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Regards,
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Bob Begani
>>=20
>> 67 BJ8
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net =
via Healeys
>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 1:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and =
comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's like =
the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's traffic =
and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic =
density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake. A =
100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele that still =
knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly anyone has =
met Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him either. =
I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having =
met through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone here knows the =
difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. All of these are =
then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M is actually =
offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not =
by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is also non who =
would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, Austin-Healeys are =
slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers =
just enough comfort. But younger people don't want these old cars at =
all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s =
or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from =
their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are =
too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are =
definitely the better cars compared.
>> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The =
beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 =
years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. =
There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs =
anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then =
done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events =
which are expensive, but not inviting.
>> =20
>> Josef Eckert
>> Germany
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: David Masucci <dmasucci@charter.net =
Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com =
>> Bcc:=20
>> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>> All of this is inevitable, and not a bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just =
continue to enjoy what we can while we can. There will be other passions =
that will entice follow-on generations to enjoy memories from their =
youth.=20
>>=20
>> Dave
>>=20
>>> On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys =
>>>=20
>>> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys =
and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's =
like the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's =
traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high =
traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake. A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele =
that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly =
anyone has met Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know =
him either. I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite =
well, having met through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone =
here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. =
All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M =
is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable =
100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is =
also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, =
Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand =
because it offers just enough comfort. But younger people don't want =
these old cars at all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something =
else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and =
that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs =
are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar =
XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.
>>> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The =
beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 =
years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. =
There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs =
anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then =
done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events =
which are expensive, but not inviting.
>>> =20
>>> Josef Eckert
>>> Germany
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>> Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100
>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>> An: "Michael Oritt" <michael.oritt@gmail.com =
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention =
that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>>>=20
>>> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is =
worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever =
someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely =
interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days =
'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number of =
Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine =
Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).=20
>>>=20
>>> =46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:
>>>=20
>>> =
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf =
<https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-H=
eritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf>
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>>> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new =
car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of =
what might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.
>>> =20
>>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>>=20
>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?
>>>=20
>>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').
>>>=20
>>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).=20
>>>=20
>>> bs
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't =
that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.=20
>>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance =
modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily =
copied, then I would consider them be very special.
>>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be =
surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
>>> Just my opinion.=20
>>> =20
>>> M
>>>=20
>>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, =
>>> What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. In my =
opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is =
significantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any modification =
reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a =
modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new =
chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a conversion =
to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, =
etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather =
buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to =
admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what =
the car is. It's a special model with a little more horsepower, but not =
anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. =
Josef Eckert Germany=20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net =
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may =
be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' =
with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).=20
>>>=20
>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd =
be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body =
and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an earnest =
owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, =
but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been =
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they =
cars or rock bands).
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that =
caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it =
needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body =
parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis =
plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body =
parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with =
non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent =
Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M? Some =
pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis =
and still bring big money at auction.=20
>>> =20
>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer has its =
original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M. =
Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a =
Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. =
Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much =
of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original =
carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an =
original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the =
rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there =
is still a 100M cam in the lump!
>>> =20
>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>> Rick Neville
>>>=20
>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell =
>>> Excellent report, thank you.=20
>>>=20
>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, =
since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could =
only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely =
original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One =
thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified =
this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, =
looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).=20
>>>=20
>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? =
Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value =
should be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, =
what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? =
How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need =
the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>=20
>>> Bob
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>> If you were following it recently, you might find my observations =
interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him =
determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>>> =20
>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the =
BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 =
bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock =
towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. =
The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were =
replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.=20
>>> =20
>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays =
mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions =
to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the =
two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that =
area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used =
to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and =
make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with that, where a =
BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine =
screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall, you can see =
plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay =
position.=20
>>> =20
>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they =
appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate =
appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct =
M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was =
replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to =
the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.=20
>>> =20
>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off =
another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows =
some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make =
out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, =
but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously =
clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that =
would be for someone else to decide.=20
>>> =20
>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I simply =
don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks =
old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>> =20
>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort =
to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 =
chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill =
the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps =
the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, =
and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20
>>> =20
>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car =
correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is =
straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a =
very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of =
experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the =
quality of the restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to =
shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd =
think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=20=
>>> =20
>>> The Millers
>>> =20
>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a =
test drive."
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html =
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>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
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<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>=20
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>>>=20
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>>>=20
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>>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
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>>=20
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--Apple-Mail=_30102F97-72BE-4009-9160-795D831C4D1C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Maybe I shouldn=E2=80=99t have used the word =E2=80=9Cclone=E2=80=
=9D. Even though it made me wonder. <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
Richard Mayor<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; =
class=3D"">boyracer466@gmail.com</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Dec 17, 2023, at 4:06 PM, richard mayor <<a =
href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; =
class=3D"">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">The fact that it=E2=80=99=
s a BN1 chassis (no flanges on the shocks tower) is certainly a red flag =
and I think that anyone who caught that discrepancy should feel =
obligated to inform prospective buyers. If you=E2=80=99re gonna =
clone a 100M, at least do it on a BN2 chassis. Right? <div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Rick is spot on. =E2=80=9C=
If a seller doesn=E2=80=99t want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere =
else=E2=80=A6.. =E2=80=9C. </div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Richard Mayor</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; =
class=3D"">boyracer466@gmail.com</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Dec 17, 2023, at 3:29 PM, HealeyRick <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; class=3D"">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>>=
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta=
charset=3D"UTF-8" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Craig,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk =
a tightrope between helping bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a =
seller's sale. I won't comment on a sale of someone I know because I =
don't want to be accused of puffing their sale or OTOH submarining one =
that is being offered by a friend. If a seller doesn't want honest =
opinions, go offer it somewhere else and stay off BaT. Someone who =
benefitted from your advice should be thankful. It's not supposed =
to be a cheerleading squad every time a person puts a car up for =
auction.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Happy =
Healeydays,</div><div class=3D"">Rick Neville</div></div><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at =
3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper <<a href=3D"mailto:craiginchico@gmail.com"=
class=3D"">craiginchico@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: =
large;">Re: Recent 100 M on BaT</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size: large;"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: large;">Rick and Bob: =
I did it. I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that there is a =
problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen other issues =
that went unanswered. Being incredulous at the number of issues on =
the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being presented, =
I showed the pictures to my fellow Healey 100 obsessed neighbor who said =
"Aren't those BN1 shock towers?" I had also recently watched the =
walk around video and simply couldn't contain myself. Maybe it =
would have been better to just reach out to the seller, but I didn't =
think of that until just now. Contrary to being savage, I think my =
remarks showed restraint. There is a lot more there, and I didn't =
mention any of the top side problems. (Bob, I laughed when I =
read your "ashtray delete" remark) I think the open discussion of =
shortcomings of cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer and the =
seller. Imagine the embarrassment of a neophyte Healey 100 =
enthusiast having paid top dollar for this car entering it in a =
concours ("would be welcome and do well in any concours") and having it =
judged to AH Club USA concours standards, or more likely declined to be =
judged. Think he might seek legal remedy? I wouldn't want to =
be the guy who sold it to him.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size: large;"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: =
large;"> </div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec =
17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-request@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys-request@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">Send Healeys mailing list submissions to<br class=3D""> =
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">To =
subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br =
class=3D""> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferrer"=
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br =
class=3D"">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' =
to<br class=3D""> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-request@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys-request@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">You can reach the person managing the list at<br =
class=3D""> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-owner@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys-owner@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more =
specific<br class=3D"">than "Re: Contents of Healeys digest..."<br =
class=3D"">Today's Topics:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""> 1. =
Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)<br class=3D""> 2. Re: =
Recent 100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)<br class=3D""> 3. Re: =
Recent 100M on BAT (<a href=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>)<br class=3D""> =
4. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (David Masucci)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">---------- Forwarded message =
----------<br class=3D"">From: Mark Bradakis <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@bradakis.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">mark@bradakis.com</a>><br class=3D"">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D"">Cc: <br =
class=3D"">Bcc: <br class=3D"">Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 =
-0700<br class=3D"">Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br =
class=3D"">On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:<br =
class=3D"">> Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I =
volunteered to take over<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">> the =
registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">> so came =
up and we decided that the price of admission was way too high<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D"">> for =
something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work =
involved.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Try running Team Net for 30+ =
years!<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">mjb.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br =
class=3D"">From: Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>><br class=3D"">To: HealeyRick =
<<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>><br class=3D"">Cc: Michael =
Oritt <<a href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>>, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a>" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D"">Bcc: <br =
class=3D"">Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800<br =
class=3D"">Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br class=3D""><u=
class=3D""></u><div class=3D"">Rick,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Last =
I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another listing for =
this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as having a =
replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have no =
issues with it; it is, essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) =
reduced price. The commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he =
knows what s/he got, and is happy with it, that's great.<br class=3D""><br=
class=3D"">Bob<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">Bob,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""> =
As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for =
the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class=3D"">Healey=
Marque<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>this 100M =
discussion has been really helpful and interesting. I think your =
comment " I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and =
distributor slide " raises a great question of what exactly is the =
100M certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on what =
needs to be presented to be certified. <a =
href=3D"https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf"; =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf&=
nbsp;</a> But it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body =
parts that it left the factory with. I find it interesting there's no =
necessity for pictures of the engine number. And even if all the =
body parts, carbs, and distributor aren't there, Bill says in the =
article "If some of these items are missing, let the Registry =
know. It normally does not prevent registration provided enough ID =
points are present." So my impression, which I'll try to verify =
with Bill, is the certification is focused on the question whether this =
is the car that left the factory that matches the BMIHT certificate =
saying it had a louvered hood and not so much on whether it still has =
all the original parts an M would have come with.</div><div =
class=3D""> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>I think one of the benefits =
of the BaT comments for buyers (and probably not so much for sellers) is =
pointing out major deficiencies with an offering. Some buyer might have =
paid way more this car than it would be worth if not for the "savage" =
comments.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Happy =
Healeydays</div><div class=3D"">Rick Neville</div></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob =
Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to =
mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a =
case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing =
people to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">How many =
times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by a =
'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for =
it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a =
run-down of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the =
same with other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' =
cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a =
50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the =
interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was pretty =
savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect =
carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry =
thing).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">=46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/201=
9/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael =
Oritt wrote:<br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div=
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: =
rgb(51, 51, 255);">Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change =
over to a new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever =
marketing ploy to get rid of what might otherwise have become a =
less-than-desirable inventory of late production 100's by =
outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade. If so it =
was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to =
produce what has ironically become a very special Healey second =
only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Best--Michael =
Oritt</div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM =
Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I think at least part of the value =
of an M is that it made an appearance at the Healey factory, possibly =
with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed to just coming off the =
Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications were, for the most part, =
the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came =
in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers started asking for the same =
modifications DMH first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone =
remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">bs<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there =
isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any =
100. <div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">If the "M" designation involved =
significant performance modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, =
which could not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very =
special.<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I understand that Mr Meade has now =
sold his "M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade =
away.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Just my opinion. </div><div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">M</div></div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., =
Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D""><pre =
id=3D"m_-4437042785009811673m_3035444886437018827m_1603492253125454553m_-4=
413793566936237617m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"text-align: left;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">What makes a 100M?=20
Very good question and not easy to answer.
In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category =
is significantly higher than the normal 100,=20
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified =
100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and=20
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be =
such a major modification for me, as would a=20
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber =
carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a=20
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for =
the same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. =
It's a special model with a little more=20
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina =
BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on =
BAT</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Datum: =
2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Von: =
"Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">An: "HealeyRick" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>></div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><div style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: =
normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; =
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; =
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; =
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;" =
class=3D"">Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' =
which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a =
'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, =
etc.).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes =
a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so =
much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><em class=3D"">maybe</em>). =
The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, =
HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so =
bad it needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the =
100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the =
oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on =
the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even =
cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain =
Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an =
M? Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted =
with new chassis and still bring big money at auction. <div =
class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">To me, what makes an M an M is =
the motor. If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal =
replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 =
with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor =
and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right =
serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The =
BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor =
caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? =
C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a =
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M =
cam in the lump!</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""> </div><div =
class=3D"">Happy Healeydays,</div><div class=3D"">Rick =
Neville</div></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM =
Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer"=
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> =
wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">Excellent report, thank you.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this =
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its =
value<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><em =
class=3D"">should</em>be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 =
or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known =
about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' =
It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Bob<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T =
Miller wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: =
inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: =
transparent;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">If you were following it =
recently, you might find my observations interesting. So I =
went down to Michael's motor cars to help him determine if the 100m =
indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div><div =
class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">It has the BN1 inner fenders with =
the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is =
less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on =
bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being replaced and =
show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory =
welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount. </div><div class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">What I =
found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted =
under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to just =
make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two =
relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area =
with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to =
fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and =
make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with that, =
where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with =
machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall, =
you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a =
BN2 relay position. </div><div class=3D""> </div><div =
class=3D"">I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and =
they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN =
plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the =
correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag =
was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest =
to the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power. </div><div class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">The boot =
lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, =
and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some previous =
age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any =
evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I =
will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and =
prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for =
someone else to decide. </div><div class=3D""> </div><div =
class=3D"">Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and =
I simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it =
looks old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, =
so?</div><div class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">I feel at some =
point in this car's life someone went to some effort to try and conceal =
that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another =
interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes where a =
BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't =
realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they =
were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis? </div><div =
class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">With all that said, Mike is =
simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car is a very nice =
car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look good. Interior =
is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. I didn't drive =
the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I'd trust =
his opinions on that. With the quality of the restoration, it is =
surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to =
the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies at a =
popular vote car would not be an issue. </div></div><div =
class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">The Millers<br class=3D""> <br=
class=3D"">"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique =
car is a test =
drive."</div></blockquote></div>__________________________________________=
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om</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote></div></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">---------- =
Forwarded message ----------<br class=3D"">From: <<a =
href=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>><br class=3D"">To: <<a =
href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>><br class=3D"">Cc: <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D"">Bcc: <br =
class=3D"">Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500<br =
class=3D"">Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br =
class=3D""><div lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Dear Josef:<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Your comments are the same in the USA especially =
in Florida where there are large numbers of retired people. My =
good friend and President of our British Car Club Hermann Schuller =
formerly of Germany has said that younger people want Japanese or =
European sports cars. It is the same for those who enjoy =
boating. Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old. I had to give =
away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our summer home on =
Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort. I still =
have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida and will =
continue to sail in accordance with the agreement with my wife that I =
will not sail alone. <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very =
large and growing thanks to the efforts of Hermann who revived the =
club. He is a born salesman and a lover of old sports cars.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Bob Begani<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">67 BJ8<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u> <u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></span></p><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; =
border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; padding: 3pt =
0in 0in;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>josef-eckert--- =
via Healeys<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, December 16, 2023 =
1:15 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>; Michael Oritt <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M =
on BAT<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u> <u class=3D""></u></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in;" class=3D""><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">As =
far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and =
comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed =
extremely.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">It's=
like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">They=
can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on motorways they are =
quite problematic due to the high traffic density and the many trucks =
that also recklessly swerve to overtake.</span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in =
demand.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The =
clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost =
extinct.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him =
either.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I =
saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met =
through friends.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">But =
back to the 100M.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a =
LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">All =
of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly =
higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody =
actually pays that here.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>There is =
also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow =
sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just =
enough comfort.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">But =
younger people don't want these old cars at all.</span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""> </span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from =
the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they =
know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also =
out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 =
which are definitely the better cars compared.</span></span><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Btw.: The Austin-Healey =
clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautiful events like =
International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago are no =
longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are hardly =
any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those who do =
it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not really =
inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which are =
expensive, but not inviting.</span></span><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""> </span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Josef Eckert</span><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Germany</span><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" class=3D""> <u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" =
class=3D""> <u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u> <u =
class=3D""></u></p></div></div><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br =
class=3D"">From: David Masucci <<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmasucci@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">dmasucci@charter.net</a>><br class=3D"">To: "<a =
href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:josef-eckert@t-online.de"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">josef-eckert@t-online.de</a>><br class=3D"">Cc: Bob =
Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>, Michael Oritt <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>>, Ahealey help <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D"">Bcc: <br =
class=3D"">Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500<br =
class=3D"">Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">All of this is inevitable, and not a =
bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just continue to enjoy what we can while =
we can. There will be other passions that will entice follow-on =
generations to enjoy memories from their youth. <div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Dave<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Dec =
16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" class=3D""><span =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">As far as I can see here in Europe, the =
market for Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has =
collapsed extremely.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">It's like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on =
motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and =
the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in =
demand.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is =
almost extinct.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him =
either.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite =
well, having met through friends.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">But back to the 100M.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a =
LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le =
Mans.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly =
higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody =
actually pays that here.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>There is also non who would =
pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 =
BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough =
comfort.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">But younger people don't want these old cars at =
all.</span></span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span=
class=3D""><span class=3D"">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or =
something else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and =
comfort and that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars =
like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda =
MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.<br =
class=3D""></span></span></span></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" =
class=3D"">Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. =
The beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were =
offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a =
long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the =
clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is =
then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these =
events which are expensive, but not inviting.</span></span></div><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""> </span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Josef Eckert</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D"">Germany</span></div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Datum: =
2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Von: =
"Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">An: "Michael Oritt" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>></div><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><div =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; =
font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I think that's =
indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that aspect). That, =
and the fact the kits were selling made a case for selling the M (these =
days, that would take an army of marketing people to figure out, with =
lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate the strong =
showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the Bonneville =
cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke Ferraris, =
Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Healeys' rugged =
simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and salesman; he =
spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we're talking =
TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more =
expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in =
the US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option =
from the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph =
history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">How many times have you been asked what your =
Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied =
'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems =
genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; =
these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the =
number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. =
Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br=
class=3D""><br class=3D"">=46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/201=
9/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael =
Oritt wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Some feel =
that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) =
he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what might =
otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade. If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, =
255);"> </div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, =
51, 255);">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Dec =
16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"">The M was rated =
at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extractor--as opposed to a =
stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call that =
significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an engine =
(the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff =
weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I'd say the =
market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a significant price =
premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000 =
remain).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">bs<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter =
wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I'm not =
an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that much to =
hanging the "modification " parts on any 100. <div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">If the "M" designation involved significant performance =
modifications, say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be =
easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.<div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" =
so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Just my opinion. </div><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D""> </div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">M</div></div></div><br=
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" =
dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via =
Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D""><pre dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"text-align: left;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. =
In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category =
is significantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any =
modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing =
special. It's a modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal =
opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as =
would a conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a =
Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. =
I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same =
money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far =
exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more =
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina =
BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany </span></pre><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""> </span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Datum: =
2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Von: =
"Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">An: "HealeyRick" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>></div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""> </p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""> </p><div style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: =
normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Note the Registry will also certify =
'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have =
noted you can build a 'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy =
head, SBC, etc.).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes =
a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so =
much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><em class=3D"">maybe</em>). =
The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, =
HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat. Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so =
bad it needed a new frame. How hard would it be to transfer the =
100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the =
oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on =
the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even =
cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain =
Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an =
M? Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted =
with new chassis and still bring big money at auction. <div =
class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">To me, what makes an M an M is =
the motor. If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal =
replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 =
with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor =
and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right =
serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The =
BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor =
caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? =
C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a =
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M =
cam in the lump!</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""> </div><div =
class=3D"">Happy Healeydays,</div><div class=3D"">Rick =
Neville</div></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM =
Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer"=
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> =
wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">Excellent report, thank you.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this =
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its =
value<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><em =
class=3D"">should</em><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>be less than a comparably =
restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or =
should have known about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a =
BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the =
page title.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Bob<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/14/2023 =
8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div =
style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; =
background-color: transparent;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">If you were =
following it recently, you might find my observations =
interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him =
determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I =
found.</div><div class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">It has the BN1 =
inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose =
frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars =
have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of =
being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows =
non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount. </div><div class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">What I =
found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted =
under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to just =
make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two =
relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area =
with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to =
fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and =
make those holes seem as they never existed. Along with that, =
where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with =
machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall, =
you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a =
BN2 relay position. </div><div class=3D""> </div><div =
class=3D"">I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and =
they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN =
plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the =
correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag =
was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest =
to the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power. </div><div class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">The boot =
lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, =
and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some previous =
age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any =
evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I =
will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and =
prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for =
someone else to decide. </div><div class=3D""> </div><div =
class=3D"">Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and =
I simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it =
looks old, it's original. It does indeed look to have some age, =
so?</div><div class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">I feel at some =
point in this car's life someone went to some effort to try and conceal =
that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another =
interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes where a =
BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't =
realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they =
were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis? </div><div =
class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">With all that said, Mike is =
simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car is a very nice =
car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look good. Interior =
is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. I didn't drive =
the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I'd trust =
his opinions on that. With the quality of the restoration, it is =
surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to =
the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies at a =
popular vote car would not be an issue. </div></div><div =
class=3D""> </div><div class=3D"">The Millers<br class=3D""> <br=
class=3D"">"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique =
car is a test =
drive."</div></blockquote></div>__________________________________________=
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