--===============5920749313319906581==
boundary="=_96e3932bd5bd2ecdbcacc0ffa2e53d28"
--=_96e3932bd5bd2ecdbcacc0ffa2e53d28
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to Curt for this accurate and informative article. I totally=0Aag=
ree that the early part numbers ie: 1B--- would designate British=0Afast=
eners, and the later three letter, three number designation=0Aaligned th=
e UNF hardware. That is our best clue to what was used back=0Athen. =0AT=
his early engine has stumped me on a number of occasions and I really=0A=
feel that for that first year anything goes to get the product to the=0A=
market...a real scramble. I have a notion that this engine was sitting=
=0Ain stock as surplus A-90 leftovers. The block was factory painted dk.=
=0Ablue. The head on this car was "Gold Seal" rebuilt. The threads I=0Ad=
iscussed, are most definitely British Standard Cycle (CEI) 26 TPI..=0AMa=
ny of the studs are BSF on one end and BSC on the other. Luckily,=0Athes=
e parts are available from British Tool & Fasteners, including a=0Afull=
line of BSC hardware. Unfortunately they were out of 3/8 BSC=0Ahelicoil=
s, so I had to get some from, you guessed it... Amazon. Big $$=0Arather=
than Pence. =0AYes, all this is another great unsolved mystery in Austi=
n/BMC history.=0ABut, what else would we have to discuss...covid? Regard=
s, Hank=0A=0A=09-----------------------------------------From: "Curtis A=
rndt" =0ATo: "Hank Leach"=0ACc: "Michael Salter", "Healeys", "Bob Haskel=
l", "Curtis Arndt"=0ASent: Thursday February 10 2022 6:22:39PM=0ASubject=
: Re: [Healeys] 100 fasteners=0A=0A Regarding the steel and strength ra=
tings of British and other=0Afasteners, they were either "Mild" Steel (B=
ritish grades unmarked or=0AA, B, C or K for nuts with "B" being the mos=
t common after unmarked)=0Aor "High Tensile" steel (all other letter gra=
des D-G [pre 1950] and=0AR-Y [post 1950]). The confusion appears in call=
ing "High Tensile=0ASteel" - "High Speed Steel" as Michael has pointed o=
ut. =0A See my attached article... =0A Also with regard to fastener list=
ings in the various parts manuals=0Aand other BMC publications, if a fas=
tener is noted with a "part=0Anumber", it is typically a Whitworth type=
thread form. When the=0Achangeover to "Unified " fasteners occurred in=
the mid 1950s, all=0AUnified fasteners were noted with a new designatio=
n, describing in=0Acode the size of the fastener. I would assume that al=
l Unified=0Afasteners fell under this new coding system... But we know w=
hat=0Ahappens when we assume. =0A BTW, this Unified fastener coding is p=
ublished in a chart that most=0Aof you should be familiar with by now.=
=0A For those unfamiliar, the "British Standards" define "Whitworth" as=
=0Aall thread forms with a pitch angle of the threads measuring 55=C2=B0=
,=0Ae.g., BSW, BSF, BSPP, BSPT, BSB, etc... This is in contrast to Unifi=
ed=0A(UNF/UNC), SAE and BSCy thread forms which have 60=C2=B0 pitch angl=
e of=0Athe threads. This is why British Standard Cycle are NOT a Whitw=
orth=0Athread form despite the bolt heads using BSW/BSF spanners, and wh=
at is=0Aerroneously published in Wikipedia... But I digress. =0A That be=
ing said, I would assume that part numbers (11B122 and 11B=0A298) are bo=
th Whitworth fasteners since they are listed as part=0Anumbers. Again, w=
e all know what happens when we assume! Since these=0Aare specialty fast=
eners, and not your run of the mill bolts, who knows=0Ahow BMC designate=
d them? One may be BSF and the other UNF. Measure=0Atwice or have a Heli=
coil kit on hand! =0A Cheers, =0A Curt =0A On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 4:2=
3 PM Henry G Leach via Healeys wrote:=0A I DON'T WANT TO BE A SMART AS=
S, HERE LIKE RALPH FOUND IN "CHRISTMAS=0ASTORY", AND STICK MY TONGUE TO=
A LIGHT POLE, BUT THE TREADS FOUND ON=0AMY ROCKER OIL FEED PIPE ARE HSS=
, 26TPI. Here are two measurements with=0Aa gauge showing the pattern. I=
f it was 3/8 x24 UNF the job would be=0Adone. However, I had to order a=
special $65 kit for the HSS Helicoils=0Ato repair this block. =0A Now,=
here are our 55 degree choices: UNF 3/8 X 24, BSW 3/8 x 16, BSF=0A3/8 X=
20, HSS 3/8 x26, BSC (old CEI) 3/8 x 26 as well, or BSPF 3/8 x=0A19. Un=
less someone re-lathed this part it is factory 26TPI for=0Asure-ran a ta=
p and die in both parts. =0A A note in the Sept. 1956 parts book refers=
to a service change shown=0Ahere. (Vol 25, p.13 engine) The BMC group i=
s trying to standardize=0Athis item. Accordingly, it appears to have bee=
n UNF (11B122) on the=0A2.2 Diesel engine and then changed to BSF (11B 2=
98) at engine #225030.=0AThis engine I'm doing is from 1953 so who knows=
what the correct part=0Ais? =0A In my March 1954 parts book the number=
for the "valve rocker bracket=0Awith tapped hole" is 1B2110 and locatin=
g pin is 1B2111. (no mention of=0ATPI) That changed to 11B298 and 99.(BS=
F) in 1956. Of course the later=0A6-cyl. engines used AEC162-probably un=
ified, but maybe still BSF. =0A If someone has the right answer, I will=
stick my tongue to a light=0Apole. Hank =0A=0A=09----------------------=
------------------- From: "Michael Salter"=0A To: "Bob Haskell"=0A Cc: "=
Bob Spidell", "Hank Leach", "Healeys"=0A Sent: Wednesday February 9 2022=
10:52:51AM=0A Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 Road draft (vent) pipe fastene=
rs=0A=0A The fasteners wouldn't be HSS ...that is used for machine tools=
like=0Adrill bits and lathe tools. =0A M=0A=0A On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at=
1:47 PM Bob Haskell via Healeys wrote:=0A Bob,=0A=0A HSS - high speed=
steel.=0A I think the threads are 3/8"-26 BSF (British Standard Fine).=
=0A=0A Cheers,=0A=0A Bob Haskell=0A Austin Healey 3000 BN7/BT7 registrar
--=_96e3932bd5bd2ecdbcacc0ffa2e53d28
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body>Thanks to Curt for this accurate and informative article. I=
totally agree that the early part numbers ie: 1B--- would designate Bri=
tish fasteners, and the later three letter, three number designation ali=
gned the UNF hardware. That is our best clue to what was used back=
then. <div><br></div><div>This early engine has stumped me on a nu=
mber of occasions and I really feel that for that first year anything go=
es to get the product to the market...a real scramble. I have a notion t=
hat this engine was sitting in stock as surplus A-90 leftovers. Th=
e block was factory painted dk. blue. The head on this car was "Gold Sea=
l" rebuilt. The threads I discussed, are most definitely British Standar=
d Cycle (CEI) 26 TPI.. Many of the studs are BSF on one end and BS=
C on the other. Luckily, these parts are available from British Tool &am=
p; Fasteners, including a full line of BSC hardware. Unfortunately they=
were out of 3/8 BSC helicoils, so I had to get some from, you guessed i=
t... Amazon. Big $$ rather than Pence. </div><div><br></div><div>Ye=
s, all this is another great unsolved mystery in Austin/BMC history. But=
, what else would we have to discuss...covid? Regards, Hank<br><br><div=
class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div><p>--------------------------------=
---------</p>From: "Curtis Arndt" <cnaarndt@gmail.com><br>To: "Hank Leac=
h"<br>Cc: "Michael Salter", "Healeys", "Bob Haskell", "Curtis Arndt"<br>=
Sent: Thursday February 10 2022 6:22:39PM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100=
fasteners<br><br>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr">Regarding the=
steel and strength ratings of British=0Aand other fasteners, they were=
either <u>"Mild"</u> Steel (British=0Agrades unmarked or A, B, C or K f=
or nuts with "B" being the most=0Acommon after unmarked) or <u>"High Ten=
sile"</u> steel (all other=0Aletter grades D-G [pre 1950] and R-Y [post=
1950]). The=0Aconfusion appears in calling "<u>High Tensile Steel=
</u>" - "High=0ASpeed Steel" as Michael has pointed out.=0A<div><br></di=
v>=0A<div>See my attached article...</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>Also=
with regard to fastener listings in the various parts=0Amanuals and oth=
er BMC publications, if a fastener is noted with a=0A"part number", it i=
s typically a Whitworth type thread form. When=0Athe changeover to "Unif=
ied " fasteners occurred in the=0Amid 1950s, all Unified faste=
ners were noted with a new designation,=0Adescribing in code the size of=
the fastener. I would=0Aassume that all Unified fasteners fe=
ll under this new coding=0Asystem... But we know what happens when we as=
sume.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>BTW, this Unified fastener coding i=
s published in a chart that=0Amost of you should be familiar with&n=
bsp;by now.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>For those unfamiliar, the "Br=
itish Standards" define=0A"Whitworth" as all thread forms with a pitch a=
ngle of the threads=0Ameasuring 55<font face=3D"arial, sans-serif">=C2=
=B0, e.g., BSW, BSF, BSPP,=0ABSPT, BSB, etc... This is in contrast to Un=
ified (UNF/UNC), SAE and=0ABSCy thread forms which have 60</font><font f=
ace=3D"arial, sans-serif">=C2=B0 </font>pitch angle of the=0Athread=
s.<span style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;"> </span><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;"> </span><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial, sans-serif;"> This is why British Standard=0ACycle are=
NOT a Whitworth thread form </span><span style=3D"font-family:aria=
l, sans-serif;">despite </span><span style=3D"font-family:arial, sa=
ns-serif;">the bolt heads using BSW/BSF=0Aspanners, and what is erroneou=
sly published in Wikipedia... But I=0Adigress.</span></div>=0A<div><br><=
/div>=0A<div>That being said, I would assume that part numbers (11B122 a=
nd=0A11B 298) are both Whitworth fasteners since they are listed as=
=0Apart numbers. Again, we all know what happens when we=0Aas=
sume! Since these are specialty fasteners, and not your run of=0Athe mil=
l bolts, who knows how BMC designated them? One may be BSF=0Aand the oth=
er UNF. Measure twice or have a Helicoil kit on=0Ahand!</div>=0A<d=
iv><br></div>=0A<div>Cheers, </div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>Curt</=
div>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 4:23 PM=0AHenry G Leach via Heal=
eys <<a>healeys@autox.team.net</a>>=0Awrote:<br></div>=0A<blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px .8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">=0A<div>I don't want to be a=
smart ass, here like Ralph found in=0A"Christmas Story", and stick my t=
ongue to a light pole, but the=0Atreads found on my rocker oil feed pipe=
are <b>HSS, 26TPI</b>. Here=0Aare two measurements with a gauge showing=
the pattern. If it was=0A3/8 x24 UNF the job would be done. Howev=
er, I had to order a=0Aspecial $65 kit for the HSS Helicoils to repair t=
his block.=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>Now, here are our 55 degree choices:=
<b>UNF 3/8 x 24</b>, BSW=0A3/8 x 16, <b>BSF 3/8 x 20</b>, HSS 3/8 x26,=
BSC (old CEI) 3/8 x 26=0Aas well, or BSPF 3/8 x 19. Unless someone re-l=
athed this part it is=0Afactory 26TPI for sure-ran a tap and die in both=
parts.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>A note in the Sept. 1956 parts bo=
ok refers to a service change=0Ashown here. (Vol 25, p.13 engine) The BM=
C group is trying to=0Astandardize this item. Accordingly, it appe=
ars to have been=0AUNF (11B122) on the 2.2 Diesel engine and then change=
d to BSF (11B=0A298) at engine #225030. This engine I'm doing is from 19=
53 so who=0Aknows what the correct part is?</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<d=
iv>In my March 1954 parts book the number for the "valve rocker=0Abracke=
t with tapped hole" is 1B2110 and locating pin is=0A1B2111. (=
no mention of TPI) That changed to 11B298 and=0A99.(BSF) in 1956.=
Of course the later 6-cyl. engines used=0AAEC162-probably unified, but=
maybe still BSF.</div>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>If someone has the righ=
t answer, I will stick my tongue to a=0Alight pole. Hank</div>=0A<=
div><br><p>-----------------------------------------</p>=0AFrom: "Michae=
l Salter"<br>=0ATo: "Bob Haskell"<br>=0ACc: "Bob Spidell", "Hank Leach",=
"Healeys"<br>=0ASent: Wednesday February 9 2022 10:52:51AM<br>=0ASubjec=
t: Re: [Healeys] 100 Road draft (vent) pipe fasteners<br><br><div dir=3D=
"ltr">=0A<div style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:small;">T=
he=0Afasteners wouldn't be HSS ...that is used for machine tools like=0A=
drill bits and lathe tools.</div>=0A<div style=3D"font-family:arial, san=
s-serif;font-size:small;">=0A<br></div>=0A<div style=3D"font-family:aria=
l, sans-serif;font-size:small;">=0AM<br></div>=0A</div>=0A<br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 9,=
2022 at 1:47 PM=0ABob Haskell via Healeys <<a>healeys@autox.team.net=
</a>>=0Awrote:<br></div>=0A<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-=
left:1ex;">=0ABob,<br><br>=0AHSS - high speed steel.<br>=0AI think the t=
hreads are 3/8"-26 BSF (British Standard Fine).<br><br>=0ACheers,<br><br=
>=0ABob Haskell<br>=0AAustin Healey 3000 BN7/BT7 registrar</blockquote>=
=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A</blockquote>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A</cnaarn=
dt@gmail.com></div></body></html>
--=_96e3932bd5bd2ecdbcacc0ffa2e53d28--
--===============5920749313319906581==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
--===============5920749313319906581==--
|