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Simon, hate to say it, but the clutch should work perfectly after it is =
installed, there is no =E2=80=9Cbreak-in=E2=80=9D. The trouble you had =
getting the g=E2=80=99box in is troubling. If everything is aligned it =
should slip in easily. I presume, when installing, you put it in gear =
and rotated the drive flange to get the shaft splines to align with the =
clutch plate. I would never pull it together by winding it on with =
bolts. Your description that the graunchy noises when shifting are =
expensive sounding is likely correct, so it sounds to me that the =
gearbox should come out again and a thorough inspection is warranted.
=20
In addition to checking that the clutch disc slides on the first motion =
shaft splines before assembly, I also always check that the pilot bush =
fits correctly on the end of the shaft. If these fit correctly and the =
alignment is good, the g=E2=80=99box should slip in easily. Now, you =
may have to destroy the bush to get it out of the flywheel, but they are =
inexpensive and the peace of mind (never mind the effort to re&re the =
g=E2=80=99box again) makes it worthwhile to do. The pilot bearing should =
be lightly greased before assembly =E2=80=93 I use a molybdenum grease, =
which I also use sparingly on the splines =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t put so =
much on that it flies off and contaminates the clutch plate). I agree =
with Richard that a spare first motion shaft is a better alignment tool =
than a plastic substitute.
=20
Also, ensure that the bell housing to engine bolts are correctly =
located. There are two special bolts called =E2=80=9Cdowel =
bolts=E2=80=9D (they have their own part number that is different to the =
other bolts) that are more precisely machined to locate the bell =
housing/gearbox accurately on the rear engine plate. They can be =
identified by a shallow groove that is machined into the shank just =
below the head. They go in the top left (11 o=E2=80=99clock) and bottom =
right (5:25) holes (looking at the rear on the motor). See the note on =
page 97 of the Originality Guide (2018) for a full description. I =
don=E2=80=99t think the workshop manual adequately describes these, =
thinking it is covered under =E2=80=9Creplacement is the reverse of =
removal=E2=80=9D; but you have to be pretty observant to note these two =
bolts on removal!=20
=20
Three years ago I had an issue with a new Borg&Beck clutch plate and had =
my g=E2=80=99box in and out 3 times, so I know how you are feeling, but =
something is wrong and you need to get it right. When it is together =
again, bolt the driver=E2=80=99s seat back in and test drive it before =
putting the rest of the interior in; it saves a bit of work if there is =
a problem.
=20
Lastly, don=E2=80=99t cut the head of the top slave cylinder bolt. I =
can guarantee you that if this was acceptable engineering practice the =
accountants at the factory would have insisted it be done. The slave =
cylinder needs to be securely fastened to the bell housing and one bolt =
is not sufficient. I have probably had mine off 4, maybe 5 times in 45 =
years of ownership, so if it takes me an extra 10 minutes to remove, so =
what? If extracting inaccessible bolts is a big issue, don=E2=80=99t =
buy an English car! (I just had to re&re the rear drain pipe from the =
intake manifold =E2=80=93 that is another fun one!).
=20
Good luck! Mirek
=20
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net =
Healeys
Sent: September 19, 2021 7:52 PM
To: Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com =
Subject: Re: [Healeys] New clutch query
=20
My first thought was that if you were having to force the gearbox when =
it was 3 to 4 inches away from home, it may be the spines in the clutch =
disc and the input shaft were causing some interference. This should =
have been an easy slip fit. Did you lubricate the spines? Test fit the =
disc on the input shaft? Installing a gearbox should not be a tedious =
affair. Or, you did not get the disc properly aligned using the little =
plastic tool. There is a lot of wiggle room for error. I've found =
that an old input shaft works better than the plastic ones for getting =
good alignment. =20
=20
That brings me to my next observation. If for some reason the clutch =
disc is hanging up on the input shaft it will not disengage as smoothly =
as it should. Is this your problem? It's not clear to me what you mean =
when you say "difficult clutch".
=20
I have never heard of any need to break-in a clutch.
=20
On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 2:15 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys =
Simon--
=20
I cut the head off one bolt to make it easier to R&R the secondary =
cylinder. I also fashioned a small door in the extension panel to give =
access to the bleed nipple from inside rather than only under the car.
=20
Best--Michael Oritt
=20
On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 4:23 PM Simon Lachlan via Healeys =
You=E2=80=99ll recall the Overdrive saga. Have decided not to commission =
a TV mini-series per someone=E2=80=99s advice.
1) The overdrive is in and works very well. I haven=E2=80=99t tested the =
pressure yet =E2=80=93 I will =E2=80=93 but it clicks in and out very =
briskly.
2) The new clutch kit is in. Hard to get the old bits off until I =
borrowed that magic tool. Used the black nylon(?) tool from AHSpares as =
so much handier than the spare original shaft.=20
3) Putting the gearbox back in was pretty tedious. It would go in all =
the way except for the last 3 or 4 inches. Took it out again and checked =
the alignment was 100% which it was. Put it back in, pushed, shoved and =
cursed. In the end we wound it on with long threaded bolts. I =
don=E2=80=99t want to put in another clutch. Ever.
4) Now, finally, the QUESTIONS:-
Initially, getting the car into any gear was very graunchy and really =
the car would have been undriveable. Pedal pressure felt the same as =
before but nothing was happening except expensive noise.=20
Although there was no evidence of a loss of fluid =E2=80=93 why would =
there be? =E2=80=93 I bled the clutch. I have fitted the extension tube =
so it wasn=E2=80=99t tricky. That did make a difference but not to the =
way it was previously.
So (1) Is it normal for clutches to be difficult at first? A sort of =
=E2=80=9Cbreaking-in=E2=80=9D period??
(2) I=E2=80=99ll bleed it again but am drawn to getting a longer push =
rod for the slave cylinder. Does that make sense? I do have to push the =
pedal down pretty far. Comments?
(3) Slightly off topic=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6digging around in my files, I =
saw a suggestion to cut the head off the top bolt that locates the slave =
cylinder. Then to Loctite in permanently for use as a dowel peg. ie that =
bolt is a bit of a PITA and one bolt would suffice. Wouldn=E2=80=99t =
it??=20
All advice would be very welcome,
Simon
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com
=20
--=20
Best--Michael
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.com
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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Simon, hate to say it, but =
the clutch should work perfectly after it is installed, there is no =
=E2=80=9Cbreak-in=E2=80=9D. The trouble you had getting the =
g=E2=80=99box in is troubling. If everything is aligned it =
should slip in easily. I presume, when installing, you put it in =
gear and rotated the drive flange to get the shaft splines to align with =
the clutch plate. I would never pull it together by winding =
it on with bolts. Your description that the graunchy noises when =
shifting are expensive sounding is likely correct, so it sounds to me =
that the gearbox should come out again and a thorough inspection is =
warranted.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>In addition =
to checking that the clutch disc slides on the first motion shaft =
splines <u>before </u>assembly, I also always check that the pilot bush =
fits correctly on the end of the shaft. If these fit correctly and =
the alignment is good, the g=E2=80=99box should slip in easily. =
Now, you may have to destroy the bush to get it out of the flywheel, but =
they are inexpensive and the peace of mind (never mind the effort to =
re&re the g=E2=80=99box again) makes it worthwhile to do. The pilot =
bearing should be lightly greased before assembly =E2=80=93 I use a =
molybdenum grease, which I also use sparingly on the splines =E2=80=93 =
don=E2=80=99t put so much on that it flies off and contaminates the =
clutch plate). I agree with Richard that a spare first motion =
shaft is a better alignment tool than a plastic =
substitute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Also, =
ensure that the bell housing to engine bolts are correctly =
located. There are two special bolts called =E2=80=9Cdowel =
bolts=E2=80=9D (they have their own part number that is different to the =
other bolts) that are more precisely machined to locate the bell =
housing/gearbox accurately on the rear engine plate. They can be =
identified by a shallow groove that is machined into the shank just =
below the head. They go in the top left (11 o=E2=80=99clock) and =
bottom right (5:25) holes (looking at the rear on the motor). See =
the note on page 97 of the Originality Guide (2018) for a full =
description. I don=E2=80=99t think the workshop manual adequately =
describes these, thinking it is covered under =E2=80=9Creplacement is =
the reverse of removal=E2=80=9D; but you have to be pretty observant to =
note these two bolts on removal! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Three years =
ago I had an issue with a new Borg&Beck clutch plate and had my =
g=E2=80=99box in and out 3 times, so I know how you are feeling, but =
something is wrong and you need to get it right. When it is =
together again, bolt the driver=E2=80=99s seat back in and test drive it =
before putting the rest of the interior in; it saves a bit of work if =
there is a problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Lastly, =
don=E2=80=99t cut the head of the top slave cylinder bolt. I can =
guarantee you that if this was acceptable engineering practice the =
accountants at the factory would have insisted it be done. The =
slave cylinder needs to be securely fastened to the bell housing and one =
bolt is not sufficient. I have probably had mine off 4, maybe 5 =
times in 45 years of ownership, so if it takes me an extra 10 minutes to =
remove, so what? If extracting inaccessible bolts is a big issue, =
don=E2=80=99t buy an English car! (I just had to re&re the =
rear drain pipe from the intake manifold =E2=80=93 that is another fun =
one!).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Good luck! =
Mirek<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>healeys-bounces@autox.team=
.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>richard mayor via =
Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> September 19, 2021 7:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael =
Oritt <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";>michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>><b=
r><b>Cc:</b> Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>=
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] New clutch =
query<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>My =
first thought was that if you were having to force the gearbox when it =
was 3 to 4 inches away from home, it may be the spines in the clutch =
disc and the input shaft were causing some interference. This =
should have been an easy slip fit. Did you lubricate the =
spines? Test fit the disc on the input shaft? Installing a =
gearbox should not be a tedious affair. Or, you did not get the =
disc properly aligned using the little plastic tool. There is a =
lot of wiggle room for error. I've found that an old input =
shaft works better than the plastic ones for getting good =
alignment. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>That brings me to my next observation. If for =
some reason the clutch disc is hanging up on the input shaft it will not =
disengage as smoothly as it should. Is this your problem? =
It's not clear to me what you mean when you say "difficult =
clutch".<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I have never heard of any need to break-in a =
clutch.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 2:15 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#3333FF'>Simon--<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#3333FF'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#3333FF'>I cut the head off one =
bolt to make it easier to R&R the secondary cylinder. I also =
fashioned a small door in the extension panel to give access =
to the bleed nipple from inside rather than only under the =
car.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#3333FF'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#3333FF'>Best--Michael =
Oritt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 4:23 PM Simon Lachlan via Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>You=E2=80=99ll recall the Overdrive saga. Have decided not =
to commission a TV mini-series per someone=E2=80=99s =
advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>1) The overdrive is in and works very well. I =
haven=E2=80=99t tested the pressure yet =E2=80=93 I will =E2=80=93 but =
it clicks in and out very briskly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>2) The new clutch kit is in. Hard to get the old bits off =
until I borrowed that magic tool. Used the black nylon(?) tool from =
AHSpares as so much handier than the spare original shaft. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>3) Putting the gearbox back in was pretty tedious. It would =
go in all the way except for the last 3 or 4 inches. Took it out again =
and checked the alignment was 100% which it was. Put it back in, pushed, =
shoved and cursed. In the end we wound it on with long threaded bolts. I =
don=E2=80=99t want to put in another clutch. =
Ever.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>4) Now, finally, the QUESTIONS:-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>Initially, getting the car into any gear was very graunchy =
and really the car would have been undriveable. Pedal pressure felt the =
same as before but nothing was happening except expensive noise. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>Although there was no evidence of a loss of fluid =E2=80=93 =
why would there be? =E2=80=93 I bled the clutch. I have fitted the =
extension tube so it wasn=E2=80=99t tricky. That did make a difference =
but not to the way it was previously.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>So (1) Is it normal for clutches to be difficult at first? =
A sort of =E2=80=9Cbreaking-in=E2=80=9D period??<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>(2) I=E2=80=99ll bleed it again but am drawn to getting a =
longer push rod for the slave cylinder. Does that make sense? I do have =
to push the pedal down pretty far. Comments?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>(3) Slightly off topic=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6digging around in =
my files, I saw a suggestion to cut the head off the top bolt that =
locates the slave cylinder. Then to Loctite in permanently for use as a =
dowel peg. ie that bolt is a bit of a PITA and one bolt would suffice. =
Wouldn=E2=80=99t it?? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>All advice would be very welcome,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br>Support Team.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested =
annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br><a =
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ritt@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#3333FF'>Best--Michael</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br>Support Team.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested =
annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a =
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