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Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure drop

To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure drop
From: Bob Spidell via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:50:36 -0700
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
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Sounds to me like your hydraulics are OK; sounds more electrical to me. 
I had similar symptoms with an intermittent OD relay; I fixed it in a 
hotel room in Canada by opening up the relay and filing the points (and 
replaced it when I got home).

I suspect--and it's only a guess--that you get the drop out/in symptom 
at lower revs because most of us--racers aside--spend the vast majority 
of time cruising at 2-2.5K RPM, so you get that symptom in that regimen 
more often.

Bob

On 7/30/2021 10:04 AM, Henry G Leach via Healeys wrote:
> Simon-yes, there are two balls which control the pressure in the unit. 
> In the operating valve which is engaged by the action of the solenoid, 
> dirt is a possible issue. There is a very tiny hole drilling in the 
> stem of the valve which allows the oil to circulate.  That opening can 
> plug with debris and stop the flow. Oil from the accumulator goes thru 
> this valve and lifts the ball allowing the operating cylinders to move 
> forward on the clutch producing the overdrive. When the ball is seated 
> (solenoid off) oil does not pass and is dumped into the OD sump.
>
> You can see that this tiny drilling is very important and must be kept 
> clear.  Often rebuilders suggest to enlarge the hole to 1MM. It may 
> change the dwell time of the OD action, but its has a better chance of 
> staying clean...a theory not proven.
>
> The other ball is on the oil pump and that is the one that Del 
> suggested needed a new spring or extended plunger  to enhance 
> pressure-another theory.
>
> As you measured no pressure when out of OD, that is due to the ball 
> properly seating on the valve and reliving the pressure that operates 
> the two pistons. If you move the lever or engage the solenoid you 
> should get 470 lbs. again.
>
> I would suggest cleaning the valve-use a magnet to get the parts out 
> and don't use a shop rage to clean them (no lint). If all is ok in the 
> valve body you need to look further into the accumulator and o-rings 
> and piston rings. I suggest you contact David at OD Spares for some 
> additional advise. Hank
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> From: "Simon Lachlan via Healeys"
> To: "Healeys"
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday July 30 2021 7:32:48AM
> Subject: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure drop
>
> Hi,
>
> Iâ??ve been having issues with my OD. Similar to someone else quite 
> recently��
>
> The OD would engage and disengage properly at high revs but once the 
> car was cruising along at low revs, the OD would somehow act like it 
> was on the verge of dropping out &/or dropping back in.
>
> It /may/ be electrical, but I doubt it. The solenoid goes in with a 
> nice robust click.
>
> I was thinking that it would be pressure related. So�����
>
> Iâ??ve bought a gauge from OD Spares here in UK and got the car up on 
> axle stands.
>
> I did the test procedure much per the Del Border article which I sent 
> out the other day.
>
>  1. Pressure is good, at the top end of 470 to 490 with gearbox oil
>     cold. ie 470 to 490 psi at 1500 rpm in 4^th and then same in 4thOD
>     after a momentary drop. (40wt non-detergent).
>  2. When I go out of OD, brake and switch off, the pressure drops to
>     nil at once. Which is, apparently and according to the article, WRONG.
>
> I am now leaning towards something in the so-called â??ball valveâ??, 
> items 33 to 37 on page 2 of attached.
>
> Does the above seem like a good place to start?
>
> Could, say, a worn spring or a piece of dirt in that area cause these 
> issues?
>
> The names of these valves, â??Operating valveâ?? at top and â??Ball valveâ?? 
> at bottom seems to vary with every article I read.
>
> The â??non-return valveâ?? and the â??check valveâ??â?¦.are these the same 
> thing 
> and are they what BMC calls the â??Ball valveâ??, item 37.
>
> Thanks, hopefully!
>
> Simon
>
>


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    Sounds to me like your hydraulics are OK; sounds more electrical to
    me. I had similar symptoms with an intermittent OD relay; I fixed it
    in a hotel room in Canada by opening up the relay and filing the
    points (and replaced it when I got home).<br>
    <br>
    I suspect--and it's only a guess--that you get the drop out/in
    symptom at lower revs because most of us--racers aside--spend the
    vast majority of time cruising at 2-2.5K RPM, so you get that
    symptom in that regimen more often.<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/30/2021 10:04 AM, Henry G Leach
      via Healeys wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:32d7457e41365c17ea022d3f0294c0dbfb69d112@webmail">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      Simon-yes, there are two balls which control the pressure in the
      unit. In the operating valve which is engaged by the action of the
      solenoid, dirt is a possible issue. There is a very tiny hole
      drilling in the stem of the valve which allows the oil to
      circulate.  That opening can plug with debris and stop the flow.
      Oil from the accumulator goes thru this valve and lifts the ball
      allowing the operating cylinders to move forward on the clutch
      producing the overdrive. When the ball is seated (solenoid off)
      oil does not pass and is dumped into the OD sump.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>You can see that this tiny drilling is very important and
        must be kept clear.  Often rebuilders suggest to enlarge the
        hole to 1MM. It may change the dwell time of the OD action, but
        its has a better chance of staying clean...a theory not proven.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>The other ball is on the oil pump and that is the one that
        Del suggested needed a new spring or extended plunger  to
        enhance pressure-another theory.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>As you measured no pressure when out of OD, that is due to
        the ball properly seating on the valve and reliving the pressure
        that operates the two pistons. If you move the lever or engage
        the solenoid you should get 470 lbs. again.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I would suggest cleaning the valve-use a magnet to get the
        parts out and don't use a shop rage to clean them (no lint). If
        all is ok in the valve body you need to look further into the
        accumulator and o-rings and piston rings. I suggest you contact
        David at OD Spares for some additional advise. Hank<br>
        <br>
        <p>-----------------------------------------</p>
        From: "Simon Lachlan via Healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net><br>
          To: "Healeys"<br>
          Cc: <br>
          Sent: Friday July 30 2021 7:32:48AM<br>
          Subject: [Healeys] Overdrive pressure drop<br>
          <br>
          <div class="WordSection1">
            <p class="MsoNormal">Hi,</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Iâ??ve been having issues with my OD.
              Similar to
              someone else quite recently��</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">The OD would engage and disengage
              properly at
              high revs but once the car was cruising along at low revs,
              the OD
              would somehow act like it was on the verge of dropping out
              &amp;/or
              dropping back in.</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">It <i>may</i> be electrical, but I
              doubt it.
              The solenoid goes in with a nice robust click.</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">I was thinking that it would be
              pressure
              related. So�����</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Iâ??ve bought a gauge from OD Spares here
              in UK
              and got the car up on axle stands.</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">I did the test procedure much per the
              Del
              Border article which I sent out the other day.</p>
            <ol style="margin-top:0cm;" type="1" start="1">
              <li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;">Pressure
                is good, at the
                top end of 470 to 490 with gearbox oil cold. ie 470 to
                490 psi at
                1500 rpm in 4<sup>th</sup> and then same in 4thOD after
                a momentary
                drop. (40wt non-detergent).</li>
              <li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;">When
                I go out of OD,
                brake and switch off, the pressure drops to nil at once.
                Which is,
                apparently and according to the article, WRONG.</li>
            </ol>
            <p class="MsoNormal">I am now leaning towards something in
              the
              so-called â??ball valveâ??, items 33 to 37 on page 2 of
              attached.</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Does the above seem like a good place
              to
              start?</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Could, say, a worn spring or a piece of
              dirt
              in that area cause these issues?</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">The names of these valves, â??Operating
              valveâ??
              at top and â??Ball valveâ?? at bottom seems to vary with every
              article
              I read.</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">The â??non-return valveâ?? and the â??check
              valveâ??â?¦.are these the same thing and are they what BMC
              calls the
              â??Ball valveâ??, item 37.</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, hopefully!</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Simon</p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
            <br>
          </div>
        </healeys@autox.team.net></div>
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    <br>
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