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www.petro-canada.com
> On May 7, 2021, at 6:27 AM, Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> In the =E2=80=98States, fuel is blended with ethanol (thanks to the corn l=
obby). Dunno about Canada.
>=20
>>> On May 7, 2021, at 5:59 AM, Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BF
>> re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."
>>=20
>> Typo?
>>=20
>> Have I got that wrong Bob?
>>=20
>> "Following the crude oil price shocks of the 1970=E2=80=99s, methanol ble=
nds for use in the onroad
>> vehicle fleet began extensive studies in the later 1970=E2=80=99s and the=
1980=E2=80=99s. Based on
>> this early research, methanol blends containing up to 15 vol% (M15) were s=
uccessfully
>> operated by automakers or oil companies in a number of large vehicle flee=
t trials (
>> ~ 1000 vehicles each) in Sweden, Germany, New Zealand and China during th=
at
>> time. Also during that time period, methanol gasoline blends containing a=
s much as 5 vol% with co-solvent alcohols were
>> commercially introduced in Europe and the U.S.A. Because carburetted fuel=
systems with older elastomer parts were part of
>> vehicle fleets on the road at that time and had limited ability to handle=
d high oxygen content in the fuel, the fully commercial
>> methanol blends were generally limited to 3 to 5 vol% of the gasoline ble=
nd with some co-solvents also added to provide fuel
>> stability. However, with today=E2=80=99s modern pressurised fuel injector=
systems using feedback control loops and also using more
>> advance fuel system materials, current experience suggests that methanol b=
lends as high as 15 vol% (M15) of the gasoline
>> blend with adequate co-solvents and corrosion inhibitors can now be succe=
ssfully used in today=E2=80=99s more modern vehicles in
>> use today. Many provinces in China have been commercially using M15 blend=
s as early as 2005, and China=E2=80=99s M15 use has
>> been expanding because of very favourable economics compared to higher co=
st petroleum fuels."
>>=20
>> M
>>=20
>>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:03 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote=
:
>>> re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."
>>>=20
>>> Typo?
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 5/6/2021 6:51 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>>> Hi Ken, yes I think everyone with a 100 has encountered fuel delivery i=
ssues with modern fuels. Methanol lowers the boiling point of petrol to a po=
int where it becomes a problem.=20
>>>> With the 100 there are 2 distinct issues.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Firstly, because the fuel pump and its associated lines are directly ab=
ove the exhaust pipe, hot air heats them. The fuel in the suction side of th=
e pump has, effectively, a lower boiling point than it would at atmospheric p=
ressure. This fuel tends to boil if there isn't sufficient air circulation t=
o keep the pump and lines cooled, as occurs while stopped in traffic on a ho=
t day. True vapor lock occurs because the pump will not pump sufficient vol=
ume of vapour to exceed the rate of its production by the boiling process.
>>>>=20
>>>> Secondly the carburetor float chambers and the small fuel passage to th=
e jet are very close to the exhaust manifold.=20
>>>> The manifold radiates lots of heat which heats them. Again when the car=
is moving at a reasonable pace the incoming air through the grille and arou=
nd the radiator is sufficient to maintain the carburetor at a low enough tem=
perature to prohibit boiling but, again when stopped in traffic this doesn't=
happen.
>>>>=20
>>>> I have managed to eliminate the first problem by installing a insulatin=
g sleeve from a modern car's AC hose over the fuel line from the tank to the=
pump.
>>>>=20
>>>> For the second I have made small heatshields from 24 gauge galvanized s=
teel to shield as much as possible of the carburetors from the radiated heat=
. This has helped considerably but not completely eliminated the problem.=20=
>>>>=20
>>>> For the most part neither of these modifications are visible and I have=
found that fuel delivery issues, although not completely eliminated, are ma=
nageable.=20
>>>> I am considering installing a small blower and duct sourcing air from b=
ehind the grille to see how much difference that makes but if course that wi=
ll be visible.
>>>> Hope that helps, others may have found better solutions.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> M
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon., May 3, 2021, 2:58 p.m. Ken Fleming, <ahmg@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> Michael , I thought you maybe have experience this ans have a solution=
. On my Bn1 which is M spec with carbs, advance distributed, LeMans Cam and=
Pistons has always suffered from what I call vapor lock of gas. Especially i=
n hot weather .=20
>>>>> I am assuming the heat is from
>>>>> Manifold and it placement near carbs or fuel pump/ battery near exhaus=
t play a role but I could be wrong . I have asked other owners and they seem=
most of them not to have same problem. I do have a heat sheild added with l=
ittle result.
>>>>> I am at a loss as to
>>>>> What to do
>>>>> Next , but have you experienced this and have any suggestions. Are my a=
ssumptions
>>>>> Correct on heat causing the issue. Could today=E2=80=99s quality if g=
as be a issue?
>>>>> I recall reading this was a common issue for 100=E2=80=99s to have vap=
or issues.=20
>>>>> Ken
>>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>>>=20
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>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michae=
lsalter@gmail.com
>>>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">www.petro-canada.com</div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On May 7, 2021, at 6:27 AM, B=
ob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"content=
-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div dir=3D"ltr">In the =E2=80=
=98States, fuel is blended with ethanol (thanks to the corn lobby). Dunno ab=
out Canada.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On May 7, 20=
21, at 5:59 AM, Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br=
></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div=
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">
<b><i>re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."<br>
<br>
Typo?</i></b><span class=3D"gmail-im"><br>
</span>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Have I got that wrong Bob?</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font=
-size:small"><i>"Following the crude oil price shocks of the 1970=E2=80=99s,=
methanol blends for use in the onroad<br>vehicle fleet began extensive stud=
ies in the later 1970=E2=80=99s and the 1980=E2=80=99s. Based on<br>this ear=
ly research, methanol blends containing up to 15 vol% (M15) were successfull=
y<br>operated by automakers or oil companies in a number of large vehicle fl=
eet trials (<br>~ 1000 vehicles each) in Sweden, Germany, New Zealand and Ch=
ina during that<br>time. Also during that time period, methanol gasoline ble=
nds containing as much as 5 vol% with co-solvent alcohols were<br>commercial=
ly introduced in Europe and the U.S.A. Because carburetted fuel systems with=
older elastomer parts were part of<br>vehicle fleets on the road at that ti=
me and had limited ability to handled high oxygen content in the fuel, the f=
ully commercial<br>methanol blends were generally limited to 3 to 5 vol% of t=
he gasoline blend with some co-solvents also added to provide fuel<br>stabil=
ity. However, with today=E2=80=99s modern pressurised fuel injector systems u=
sing feedback control loops and also using more<br>advance fuel system mater=
ials, current experience suggests that methanol blends as high as 15 vol% (M=
15) of the gasoline<br>blend with adequate co-solvents and corrosion inhibit=
ors can now be successfully used in today=E2=80=99s more modern vehicles in<=
br>use today. Many provinces in China have been commercially using M15 blend=
s as early as 2005, and China=E2=80=99s M15 use has<br>been expanding becaus=
e of very favourable economics compared to higher cost petroleum fuels."</i>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small"><i><br></i></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">M<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><i></i></div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu=
, May 6, 2021 at 11:03 AM Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast=
.net">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div>
re: "Methanol[sic] lowers the boiling point ..."<br>
<br>
Typo?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 5/6/2021 6:51 AM, Michael Salter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Ken, yes I think everyone with a 100 has
encountered fuel delivery issues with modern fuels. Methanol
lowers the boiling point of petrol to a point where it becomes a
problem.
<div dir=3D"auto">With the 100 there are 2 distinct issues. </d=
iv>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Firstly, because the fuel pump and its
associated lines are directly above the exhaust pipe, hot air
heats them. The fuel in the suction side of the pump has,
effectively, a lower boiling point than it would at
atmospheric pressure. This fuel tends to boil if there isn't
sufficient air circulation to keep the pump and lines cooled,
as occurs while stopped in traffic on a hot day. True vapor
lock occurs because the pump will not pump sufficient volume=
of vapour to exceed the rate of its production by the boiling
process.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Secondly the carburetor float chambers and the
small fuel passage to the jet are very close to the exhaust
manifold. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto">The manifold radiates lots of heat which heats
them. Again when the car is moving at a reasonable pace the
incoming air through the grille and around the radiator is
sufficient to maintain the carburetor at a low enough
temperature to prohibit boiling but, again when stopped in
traffic this doesn't happen.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I have managed to eliminate the first problem by
installing a insulating sleeve from a modern car's AC hose
over the fuel line from the tank to the pump.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For the second I have made small heatshields
from 24 gauge galvanized steel to shield as much as possible
of the carburetors from the radiated heat. This has helped
considerably but not completely eliminated the problem. </div=
>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For the most part neither of these modifications
are visible and I have found that fuel delivery issues,
although not completely eliminated, are manageable. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I am considering installing a small blower and
duct sourcing air from behind the grille to see how much
difference that makes but if course that will be visible.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hope that helps, others may have found better
solutions. </div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon., May 3, 2021, 2:58
p.m. Ken Fleming, <<a href=3D"mailto:ahmg@aol.com"; target=3D"_b=
lank">ahmg@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Michael , I
thought you maybe have experience this ans have a solution .
On my Bn1 which is M spec with carbs, advance distributed,
LeMans Cam and Pistons has always suffered from what I call
vapor lock of gas. Especially in hot weather . <br>
I am assuming the heat is from<br>
Manifold and it placement near carbs or fuel pump/ battery
near exhaust play a role but I could be wrong . I have asked
other owners and they seem most of them not to have same
problem. I do have a heat sheild added with little result.<br>
I am at a loss as to<br>
What to do<br>
Next , but have you experienced this and have any suggestions.
Are my assumptions<br>
Correct on heat causing the issue. Could today=E2=80=99s qua=
lity if
gas be a issue?<br>
I recall reading this was a common issue for 100=E2=80=99s to have=
vapor issues. <br>
Ken<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
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