fot
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [Fot] Southwick front hub failure - epilogue

To: "Friends of Triumph Group Email" <fot@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Southwick front hub failure - epilogue
From: Mark Cook via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 08:45:03 -0400
Authentication-results: earthlink-vadesecure.net; auth=pass smtp.auth=mecook@mindspring.com smtp.mailfrom=mecook@mindspring.com; DOXWs=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; h=from:reply-to:subject: date:to:cc:resent-date:resent-from:resent-to:resent-cc:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-unsubscribe-post: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; q=dns/txt; s=dk12062016; t=1724935505; x=1725540305; b=OrBoo3P17aVd730uuhTdGpyD0Jn acJCJu5adcYNrNzMldydJ1kvjG5CyiFNXIeSoZiYOusnIRq0R2ph7xtxbObuk5YEk7TcjOB Li0rQiOLUL3l1va5hI3X7ISl5U1Z+yvD/jhBfAYS1txGahnZ8XssfH83DFz3I8JcM5GWaiA +R52STeZyYnlsx/+HFkZpFDUw1R+kVxUyWbHdpcZHWChAcCh1E58NuTwKryUTUsxRRuUAdB 9MMnl/jpkCF0OM8+nZ++N5FpvctXR+daHJ+1xwEmg5/KCMOjm4fn9+etzmzd6+i+Ug0OixI Hfpj9FNwSW1UoVaveWoT2eiXCJxbx7g==
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: fot@autox.team.net
References: <bb89bab8a942fffcd3a7d739407cedb5@tr4racer.com> <4106fe777532b87f5a436aab4d182e5a@tr4racer.com>
Thread-index: AQI6LOgmt3QZ2gI5liktrMhx5h/HegEBPAACsXe95YA=
Henry,

Thanks for the epilogue.  With the hours and stress put onto race cars, hard
to tell what may have propagated the failure.  But, your experience
highlights a necessary inspection whether or not we elect to change out the
hubs to the 7075 aluminum.

I certainly appreciate all the pictures and especially the great research
and effort put into informing us of your findings.  This is great
information!

Thank you very much.

Regards,

Mark Cook

-----Original Message-----
From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of yellow04 via Fot
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2024 7:41 AM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] Southwick front hub failure - epilogue

The Southwick hub failure I experienced last month apparently was a 
one-off, nobody came forward saying they had, or even heard of a similar 
failure. That's certainly good news for the many of us still running 
original Southwick hubs on the track.

I engaged the best experts I know, took many pictures for my preliminary 
writeup, added a second page of pictures as more questions came up, 
(linked at the bottom of the original page) and here are the 
conclusions.

The amount of force required to fracture the 6061 aluminum as mine did 
was well beyond what anyone would consider normal stress applied to a 
hub. Nobody looked at the pictures and concluded there is an issue with 
the design or the material choice of the original hubs. Nobody saw 
evidence that the material my hub was turned from had any casting 
imperfections.

The biggest question we had was whether I experienced a sudden, 
catastrophic failure, or did the hub crack as the result of some shunt 
and as I put more cycles of stress on the hub the crack propagated to 
the point of failure? If the former, there is not much anybody can do as 
no telltale signs of an impending failure would be evident. If the 
latter, at least in theory crack checking could show if a hub was sound 
or needed replacing.

We concluded the fracture was not sudden and catastrophic. As 6061 
aluminum has a yield strength of about 45,000 psi, and given the fact 
the entire surface area of the fracture is somewhere between 3 and 4 
square inches, the force required for a sudden fracture would be quite 
large. Additionally, keep in mind that other parts (vertical link, axle, 
etc.) would have bent well before the hub saw anything near the force 
required for a sudden fracture. Supporting that theory is the fact there 
must be hundreds of these hubs on track since they were developed in 
2001, and many of them are run with tires with more grip than my 
Speedsters.

We now believe I had some incident at some point that did create a 
crack, and over time that crack propagated until the failure. I don't 
remember any recent incident that could have stressed the hub.

So what to do going forward if you are running the Southwick aluminum 
hubs? Checking your hubs for cracks seems to make sense, but it is 
necessary to remove the inner bearing race to inspect the inner 
circumference of the failure area. The pocket the inner race sits in is 
a tight press fit, and while there should be no issue with the 
occasional removal and reinstallation of the race, we question how many 
times you can perform the R&R of the race without further stressing the 
area we are concerned with.

What follows is the conclusions we made. All your typical disclaimers 
apply, racing is dangerous, nobody else is responsible for what happens 
to you if you heed or ignore any recommendations, etc.

We reached the conclusion that it only makes sense to pull the race out 
for a dye penetrant test if the hub is subjected to some big stresser. 
Perhaps it has taken a hit during an accident, or even a bad off that 
the suspension pounded the bump stop. For a street car, my take would be 
if you hit a good pothole really hard. If someone was doing a routine 
bearing change and removed the race to replace it with new, obviously 
that would be the time to test for cracks. But if the hub has not been 
subjected to a big stress event, it is probably best to leave it alone. 
Routinely performing a R&R on the inner race may be detrimental in the 
long run.

Or, as stated before, GoodParts now manufactures these hubs from 7075 
aluminum and has modified the design somewhat with an eye to make them 
even stronger. These are on my TR250 now.

I have put the broken hub and bits are in the race trailer, anybody who 
cares to see it and render an opinion on what happened is welcome to. 
The story may continue to evolve.

My thanks to Chuck Gee, Glen Efinger and Richard Good for offering their 
time and expertise here.

We are running the Lime Rock Historics this weekend, getting all our 
ducks in a row for the 2025 Kastner Cup one year for now! Stay tuned for 
more info on that!

Cheers

Henry Frye
2025 Kastner Cup Co-Chair


On 2024-08-04 13:35, yellow04 via Fot wrote:
> I am throwing this out there as a public service announcement, I broke
> a part that I thought we had bulletproof solution to. At PittRace last
> weekend I broke one of Southwick's aluminum front hubs. The area of
> the hub that the inner race presses into sheared off, thankfully the
> wheel was retained by the outer bearing and stayed on the car. I don't
> know for how many laps that would have been the case!
> 
> Has anybody else heard of one of these hubs failing?
> 
> Discussions with Richard Good, who took over manufacturing these hubs
> revealed his hubs are turned from a stronger material, the GoodParts
> hubs are made from 7075 T6 aluminum, while Southwick made theirs from
> 6061 T6. Yes, it is a little heavier, but the GoodParts hub is still
> about a pound lighter than stock. If you are unsure where your hubs
> were made, I provided details in the writeup.
> 
> I have also been in contact with Chuck Gee, our resident metallurgist.
> He is suggesting anybody running these Southwick hubs should start a
> program of dye penetration testing.
> 
> Pictures and writeup here.
> 
> https://tr250racer.com/southwick-front-hub-failure/
> 
> Hope this helps everybody keep the shiny side up!
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mecook@mindspring.com



_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot



<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>