--===============6755195221790084173==
--000000000000e77cb2059e68de58
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
interesting comment re newer cam blanks
i got some 6 cyl ones recently and they are hard as XXXXX. and the cast
iron appearance is unbelievably rough...yes, agree, they have much
bigger cores and base circles. I suspect they are of turkish origin. it
looks like an original cam had each lobe widened a bit (crudely) and then a
mould was made.
i dont have a cam grinder in my shop, but my local cam man also commented
on the hardness
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:15 AM Richard Good <goodparts@verizon.net> wrote:
> Terry,
>
> True. The original cams do not have very large lobes to work with.
> Re-grinding to a higher lift requires reduction of the base circle radius
> which also reduces all of the radii in the profile. Any cam profile has =
a
> minimum recommended base circle radius in order to maintain an acceptable
> radius at all points on the profile. The smallest radius may actually be
> on either side of the tip but it is easier to visualize if you think of
> having, let's say a healthy .200" radius at the tip when the base circle =
is
> at .60" radius. If you grind that profile onto a small core that require=
s
> grinding the base circle to .40", the radius at the tip will now be zero.
>
> The new chilled iron semi-finished cams with un-finished lobes offer much
> more meat to work with and harder material than the original cams.
>
> Richard
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
> ------------------------------
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 Enquiries Road & Track <
> enquiries@roadandtrack.net.au> wrote:
> thanks Richard
>
> some folks might like to read this link
> https://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/TriumphCams.html
>
> I disagree with your comment about grinding stock cams. You cannot
> always get the lift desired as in some cases, you would end up grinding
> below the core of shaft. Again, this was a real common problem with early
> 2000 & 2500 cams , which is whey they were often welded on the nose as pa=
rt
> of the modification process. In later production, the factory used a larg=
er
> diameter core , presumably to aid stiffness, but that gives a bit more
> flexibility when regrinding.
>
> You correctly point out that as you increase the lifter diameter then the
> peak velocity can also change. if you run the maths, a change of 0.100"
> in lifter diameter (a lot really) gives a 10% increase in acceptable peak
> velocity. Changing the lifter diameter is not for the feint-hearted,
> especially in a 6 cylinder where the lifter bores are angled to the block
> to promote lifter rotation.
>
> It would be good if Geoff Byrne elaborates a bit on his comment
>
> Terry O'Beirne
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Road and Track
> enquiries@roadandtrack.net.au
> ph 0428 815 117
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 11:23 AM Richard Good via Fot <fot@autox.team.net=
>
> wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> People often seem to overlook the main performance benefit of increasing
> the rocker ratio. That is the increase in valve velocity. The velocity =
of
> a flat tappet is limited by it's diameter. If you grind the cam lobe for
> too much velocity the contact patch will move out past the edge of the
> lifter and things will self destruct. So tappet velocity is limited.
> However, since tappet velocity times rocker ratio equals valve velocity,
> increasing the rocker ratio will increase valve velocity.
>
> First decide what will be the optimum valve lift for your engine then
> divide by rocker ratio to determine the net cam lift needed to achieve th=
at
> valve lift. Yes, you can grind the cam with a large enough lobe to reach
> desired lift using stock rockers but you are limited in how fast you can
> open the valve. Now if you grind the cam with less lift then use 1.65:1
> rockers to reach that same desired valve lift you will be moving the valv=
e
> about 13% faster. That means it will be open further in a given period of
> time. Graph it out and you will see a big difference. Valve velocity is=
a
> huge factor in performance.
>
> I can understand why someone who has tried to use high ratio rockers with
> a cam that was already maxing out the valve lift with stock rockers would
> decide that high ratio does not work. Valve lift was already at max.
> Increasing it further may be a detriment. If duration was also maxed out
> for reasonable torque then the increase in lift during the overlap period
> caused by the increase in rocker ratio may reduce the low end torque.
> Properly applied with the right cam profile, high ratio rockers enable
> performance that is just not achievable with stock rockers.
>
> Richard Good
> Good Parts Inc
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
> ------------------------------
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 Michael Zbarsky via Fot <mzbarsky@yahoo.com=
>
> wrote:
> Thanks everyone! Good stuff. I=E2=80=99m sticking to a redline of just ov=
er 6K.
> I=E2=80=99d also like to keep the 1.65 setup rather than invest in a 1.55=
so keep
> the intel and suggestions coming. The GP3 is a definite contender.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 10, 2020, 4:07 PM, Geoff Byrne <
> gkbyrne@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Ditch the 1.65 rockers no good for racing
> Geoff Byrne
> TR6 racer down under
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 11 Feb 2020, at 12:52 am, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <
> fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> I also once bought a Goodparts 1.65 rocker roller assembly for a TR6
> engine, but in the end I had to use a 1.55 roller rocker assembly, also
> from Goodparts, because, with the 1.65, it is difficult to find a race
> camshaft with a lobe lift that is low enough. With lobes of 8mm or highe=
r,
> I could not find valve springs to cope with the high valve lift. I bought=
a
> G5 camshaft from Schneider, they call it the 320-F grind (duration is 26=
8=C2=B0
> at 0.050", timing is 57-83 87-53 , installation figure is then 103=C2=
=B0 :is
> that the same as the G5 grind?) with 0.340"/8.6mm cam lift and that makes
> for a valve lift of 12.9mm with the 1.55 rocker arms. With 1.65 rockers =
,
> valve lift would be 14.2mm and I could not find valve springs for that
> lift. The valve springs I used are part no 281003-063.20 from Summit
> (Isky), 320lb/inch spring rate. They recommend 0.45"/11.43mm (1.250" -
> 0.800"from closed to full open position, so it is about 1.4mm more in my
> engine, but there is no problem concerning coil binding : the installed
> height is a 1mm more than 1.250 , the pressure in closed position is lowe=
r
> of course, but still 34kgs (105kgs at full lift) an that seems to be enou=
gh
> till 7500 rpm
> Racetorations have a race cam with 7.6mm cam lift, probably that would
> work with 1.65 rocker arms. I still have the 1.65 rocker assembly, it is
> new and it could work with a road cam or any camshaft with a maximum of 8=
mm
> cam lift.
> Marcel
>
> ------------------------------
> *Van: *"fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
> *Aan: *"fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
> *Verzonden: *Maandag 10 februari 2020 02:34:27
> *Onderwerp: *[Fot] Camshaft recommendation
>
> Hi all, I=E2=80=99m building a TR6 race engine and have a set of 1.65 rat=
io roller
> rockers from Goodparts. Any recommendations for a suitable camshaft? I wi=
ll
> be putting in cam bearings.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
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>
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>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
--000000000000e77cb2059e68de58
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">interesting comment re newer=C2=A0cam blanks<div><br></div=
><div>i got=C2=A0some 6 cyl ones recently and they are hard as XXXXX. and t=
he cast iron appearance is unbelievably rough...yes, agree, they have much =
bigger=C2=A0cores and base circles.=C2=A0 I suspect they are of turkish ori=
gin. it=C2=A0 looks like an original cam had each lobe widened a bit (crude=
ly) and then a mould was made.=C2=A0 =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>i dont=
=C2=A0have a cam grinder in my shop, but my local cam man also commented on=
the hardness<br><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:15 AM Richard Good <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:goodparts@verizon.net";>goodparts@verizon.net</a>> wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"lt=
r">Terry,</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">True.=C2=A0 The original cams do not have very large lobes t=
o work with.=C2=A0 Re-grinding to a higher lift requires reduction of the b=
ase circle radius which also reduces all of the radii in the profile.=C2=A0=
Any cam profile has a minimum recommended base circle radius in order to m=
aintain an acceptable radius at all points on the profile.=C2=A0 The smalle=
st radius may actually be on either side of the tip but it is easier to vis=
ualize if you think of having, let's say a healthy .200" radius at=
the tip when the base circle is at .60" radius.=C2=A0 If you grind th=
at profile onto a small core that requires grinding the base circle to .40&=
quot;, the radius at the tip will now be zero.=C2=A0 </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">The new chilled iron semi-finished cams with un-finished lob=
es offer much more meat to work with and harder material than the original =
cams.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Richard<br><br></p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Sent from AOL Mobile Mail <br>
Get the new AOL app: <a href=3D"http://mail.mobile.aol.com"; target=3D"_blan=
k">mail.mobile.aol.com</a></p>
<div></div><hr style=3D"border:0px;height:1px;color:rgb(153,153,153);backgr=
ound-color:rgb(153,153,153);width:100%;margin:0px 0px 9px;padding:0px"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:14px;color:rgb(153,153,153)">On Tuesday, February 11, =
2020 Enquiries Road & Track <<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,160)"><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:enquiries@roadandtrack.net.au"; target=3D"_blank">enquiries@ro=
adandtrack.net.au</a></span>> wrote:</span><br><div id=3D"gmail-m_522848=
8775325063878yiv2402869589"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">thanks Richard<div><br cl=
ear=3D"none"></div><div></div><div>some folks might like to read this link=
=C2=A0
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.tildentechnologies.c=
om/Cams/TriumphCams.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.tildentechnologies.=
com/Cams/TriumphCams.html</a>=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0 I disagree=C2=A0with your comment about grindin=
g stock cams. You cannot always get the lift desired as in some cases, you =
would end up grinding below the core of shaft. Again, this was a real commo=
n problem with early 2000 & 2500 cams , which is whey they were often w=
elded on the nose as part of the modification process. In later production,=
the factory used a larger diameter=C2=A0core , presumably to aid stiffness=
, but that gives a bit more flexibility when regrinding.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br cle=
ar=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>You correctly point ou=
t that as you increase the lifter diameter then the peak velocity can also =
change. if you run the maths, a=C2=A0 change of 0.100"=C2=A0 in lifter=
diameter=C2=A0(a lot really) gives a 10% increase in acceptable peak veloc=
ity. Changing the lifter diameter=C2=A0is not for the feint-hearted, especi=
ally in a 6 cylinder where the lifter bores are angled to the block to prom=
ote lifter rotation.=C2=A0</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>It would=
be good if Geoff Byrne elaborates a bit on his comment</div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div>Terry O'Beirne</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>=
<div></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0<br clear=3D"non=
e"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none"></div>=
<div>=C2=A0<br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Road and Track</div><div><a rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:enquiries@roadandtrack.net.au"; target=3D"_=
blank">enquiries@roadandtrack.net.au</a><br clear=3D"none">ph 0428 815 117<=
br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear=3D"none"></div></di=
v><br clear=3D"none"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 11:23 AM=
Richard Good via Fot <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto=
:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br=
clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Michael,</=
p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">People often seem to overlook the main performance benefit o=
f increasing the rocker ratio.=C2=A0 That is the increase in valve velocity=
.=C2=A0 The velocity of a flat tappet is limited by it's diameter. If y=
ou grind the cam lobe for too much velocity the contact patch will move out=
past the edge of the lifter and things will self destruct.=C2=A0 So tappet=
velocity is limited.=C2=A0 However, since tappet velocity times rocker rat=
io equals valve velocity, increasing the rocker ratio will increase valve v=
elocity.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">First decide what will be the optimum valve lift for your en=
gine then divide by rocker ratio to determine the net cam lift needed to ac=
hieve that valve lift.=C2=A0 Yes, you can grind the cam with a large enough=
lobe to reach desired lift using stock rockers but you are limited in how =
fast you can open the valve.=C2=A0 Now if you grind the cam with less lift =
then use 1.65:1 rockers to reach that same desired valve lift you will be m=
oving the valve about 13% faster. That means it will be open further in a g=
iven period of time.=C2=A0 Graph it out and you will see a big difference.=
=C2=A0 Valve velocity is a huge factor in performance.=C2=A0 </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I can understand why someone who has tried to use high ratio=
rockers with a cam that was already maxing out the valve lift with stock r=
ockers would decide that high ratio does not work.=C2=A0 Valve lift was alr=
eady at max. Increasing it further may be a detriment.=C2=A0 If duration wa=
s also maxed out for reasonable torque then the increase in lift during the=
overlap period caused by the increase in rocker ratio may reduce the low e=
nd torque.=C2=A0 Properly applied with the right cam profile, high ratio ro=
ckers enable performance that is just not achievable with stock rockers.</p=
>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Richard Good<br clear=3D"none">
Good Parts Inc</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Sent from AOL Mobile Mail <br clear=3D"none">
Get the new AOL app: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://mail=
.mobile.aol.com" target=3D"_blank">mail.mobile.aol.com</a></p>
<div></div><hr style=3D"border:0px;min-height:1px;color:rgb(153,153,153);ba=
ckground-color:rgb(153,153,153);width:100%;margin:0px 0px 9px;padding:0px">=
<span style=3D"font-size:14px;color:rgb(153,153,153)">On Tuesday, February =
11, 2020 Michael Zbarsky via Fot <<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,160)"><a =
rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:mzbarsky@yahoo.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">mzbarsky@yahoo.com</a></span>> wrote:</span><br clear=3D"non=
e"><div id=3D"gmail-m_5228488775325063878yiv2402869589gmail-m_3617476403406=
723811yiv6930218573"><div>
Thanks everyone! Good stuff. I=E2=80=99m sticking to a redline of just over=
=C2=A06K. I=E2=80=99d also like to keep the 1.65 setup rather than invest i=
n a 1.55 so keep the intel and=C2=A0suggestions coming. The GP3 is a defini=
te contender.=C2=A0<div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Mike=C2=A0<br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><div id=
=3D"gmail-m_5228488775325063878yiv2402869589gmail-m_3617476403406723811yiv6=
930218573yqt21880"><p style=3D"font-size:15px;color:rgb(113,95,250);padding=
-top:15px;margin-top:0px">On Monday, February 10, 2020, 4:07 PM, Geoff Byrn=
e <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:gkbyrne@optusnet.co=
m.au" target=3D"_blank">gkbyrne@optusnet.com.au</a>> wrote:</p><blockquo=
te><div id=3D"gmail-m_5228488775325063878yiv2402869589gmail-m_3617476403406=
723811yiv6930218573"><div>Ditch the 1.65 rockers no good for racing<div>Geo=
ff Byrne</div><div>TR6 racer down under<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none=
"><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"n=
one"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 11 Feb 2020, at 12:52 am, van.mulders.mar=
cel--- via Fot <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><=
div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div>I also once bought a Goodp=
arts 1.65 rocker roller assembly for a TR6 engine, but in the end I had to =
use a 1.55 roller rocker assembly, also from Goodparts, because, with the 1=
.65, it is difficult to find a race camshaft with a=C2=A0 lobe lift that is=
low enough. With lobes of 8mm or higher, I could not find valve springs to=
cope with the high valve lift. I bought a G5 camshaft from Schneider, they=
call it=C2=A0 the 320-F grind (duration is 268=C2=B0 at 0.050", timin=
g is 57-83=C2=A0 =C2=A0 87-53 , installation figure is then 103=C2=B0 :is t=
hat the same as the G5 grind?) with 0.340"/8.6mm cam lift and that mak=
es for a=C2=A0 valve lift of 12.9mm with the 1.55 rocker arms. With 1.65 ro=
ckers , valve lift would be 14.2mm and I could not find valve springs for t=
hat lift. The valve springs I used are part no 281003-063.20 from Summit (I=
sky), 320lb/inch spring rate. They recommend 0.45"/11.43mm=C2=A0 (1.25=
0" - 0.800"from closed to full open position, so it is about 1.4m=
m more in my engine, but there is no problem concerning=C2=A0 coil binding =
: the installed height is a 1mm more than 1.250 , the pressure in closed po=
sition is lower=C2=A0 of course, but still 34kgs (105kgs at full lift) an t=
hat seems to be enough till 7500 rpm</div><div>Racetorations have a race ca=
m with 7.6mm cam lift, probably that would work with 1.65 rocker arms. I st=
ill have the 1.65 rocker assembly, it is new and it could work with a road =
cam or any camshaft with a maximum of 8mm cam lift.</div><div>Marcel</div><=
div><br clear=3D"none"></div><hr id=3D"gmail-m_5228488775325063878yiv240286=
9589gmail-m_3617476403406723811yiv6930218573zwchr"><div><b>Van: </b>"f=
ot" <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.te=
am.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>A=
an: </b>"fot" <<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mail=
to:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clea=
r=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Maandag 10 februari 2020 02:34:27<br clear=3D"=
none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>[Fot] Camshaft recommendation<br clear=3D"none"></d=
iv><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>
Hi all, I=E2=80=99m building a TR6 race engine and have a set of 1.65 ratio=
roller rockers from Goodparts. Any recommendations for a suitable camshaft=
? I will be putting in cam bearings.=C2=A0<div><br clear=3D"none"><div>Than=
ks, Mike<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></di=
v>
<br clear=3D"none">_______________________________________________<br clear=
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17476403406723811yiv6930218573yqtfd51209"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></=
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_______________________________________________
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