FOT: forwarding the email below from Houston Club member Mike Rouse who is not
on the list.
Mike Hado
From: Mike Rouse [mailto:mtrtrain at aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:23 AM
To: mhado at att.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in
Thanks, this write up is interesting. I have read the same notes about the
reference to the measurement from the carrier/bearing center line to the back
of the pinion head.
The manual does indicate how to interpret the stamping on the top of the head.
?N? means normal, +/- number indicates what to adjust the pinion set too.
The factory installed a shim between the pinion and the head bearing to adjust
the center line to top of pinion measurement based on ?N? or the +/- #.
Of the diffs I?ve rebuilt I?ve found the +/- # and one with ?N?. I?ve also
measured the head shim thickness and pinion head thickness.
The measurement I make using a pinion setting tool from Jegs is critical, so
far when I?ve installed new bearings and the original head shim, I?ve been able
to set the pinion height as I found it.
The follow up check is to blue the gear mesh after first making sure the back
lash is within spec (.004 to .006).
None of the normal parts houses sell this shim, the shim they sell goes behind
the bearing race. The head shims I?ve measured has varied in thickness from
.037 to .042.
Head thickness also has varied from 1.286 to 1.311.
The other variable, which I haven?t measured, would be the dimension to the
race seat from a reference point which also could be a variable (cover gasket
surfaced at the mounting surface or from the front support bar).
When these were built 40 plus years ago the factory had method that?s not
described in the manuals. Not having bought a ring and pinion set yet, I?m
wondering what instruction one would get. What I?ve read on line about current
methods, instructions would be provided on how to set the pinion in relation to
the carrier line as that?s how the gears were ground together to make a
matching set. This would apply to Ford, GM etc.
Pass this on to those in the email thread if they?d like to pick my brain.
Mike Rouse
mtrtrain at aol.com
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:50 AM, M&M Hado <mhado at att.net> wrote:
Mike, you might find this thread interesting.
Mike
From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Styduhar via
Fot
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 2:10 PM
To: Bob Kramer
Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in
I looked at my TR3, TR4/4A, and TR250/6 shop manuals, and all of them show the
same factory tools to set the pinion depth measuring to the TOP of the pinion
head. So why do the TR3 and 4 manuals have a rear axle illustration that shows
the critical measurement to the BACKSIDE of the pinion head?? Is the length of
the gear on the pinion the same length regardless of ratio?
<image001.png><image002.png>
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:43 AM Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com> wrote:
Len Renkenberger wrote an article a long time ago for the 6-Pack newsletter
showing how to do this without the factory tools, using polished bar stock to
set up to measure pinion depth. I've used his techniques for years with great
success.
Bob Kramer
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 7:06 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:
Barry, when you are measuring TR pinion depth, where are you measuring from and
to? The TR3 manual only has the dimension from the front face of the pinion to
the center of the ring gear which would be impossible to measure directly with
the pinion gear installed.
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 5:28 PM barry rosenberg <britcars at bellsouth.net>
wrote:
There is a factory set of tools that one uses to measure pinion depth before
taking a diff apart. Then you set the new pinion at the same depth plus or
minus the number on the gear.
Barry
_____
From: John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2018 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in
The "92" is the "matched set" number and should correspond with the set number
on the ring gear The other number is the difference in pinion shimming from
the "normal". Haha, what is normal?
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 12:33 AM Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:
Ok guys and gals.
Here is a pic of the new pinion head What do I do with the number on the pinion
head?
Error! Filename not specified.
Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:07 PM, Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com> wrote:
I have a 4.88 ring and pinion in a box. My Triumph club is running the VTR
National near Austin next year and I've been volunteered to head up the
autocross. I think I'll build a diff with it and put it in the Beandito, and
sell tickets!
Bob Kramer
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 8:37 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:
Wasn't this the new set of gears? If so, they were new old stock from England.
They once belonged to Jim Ealy, who owned a black, 1966 TR4A race car. I bought
his junk yard to get his race car and the gears were new in the box. I knew him
since 1973 and he had the gears then. I had them until recently. I would not
think that back then there were cheap reproduction gears available. He had
4:11, the 4:55 and 4:88 (great fun but useless). The 4:11 went in the car when
I sold it, the 4:88 were put in a locked diff and played with on the street;
the 4:55 sat on a shelf for all those years. If the diff still had fluid in it,
then it has to be improper set up, unfortunately.
Barry
_____
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Cc: fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2018 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in
Thanks guys for all the feedback.
So far I have only put the car in the air and pulled the cover. There is ample
evidence of excessive heat so something went wrong with my setup.
I might get the chance to pull it all out of the car and take some measurements
on Sunday. Once I do, I?ll share my original setup notes and what I measure
upon disassembly.
On a related note. I ordered a new gear set from Rimmer on Monday and it
arrived in Austin today, standard shipping. Amazing. Way faster than some of
our domestic suppliers.
This new gear set was supplied by Bastuck. Hopefully lasts a little longer.
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 6, 2018, at 7:41 AM, Rick Parent via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
Looks like the pinion was way to deep.
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