The old advertised US HP was based upon an engine with NO accessories
installed (fuel was pumped by an external pump, etc), a blue printed, hand
assembled engine with all tollerances maximized, with 28 inches of mercury at
the exhaust and 31 inches of mercury at the intake. The timing was advanced
as far as possible and the engines often blew up during the measurement.
"SAE" HP is horsepower of the engine AS INSTALLED in the car, with fuel pump,
water pump and air cleaner. I believe DIN is essentially the same-it is a
"true" horsepower figure rather then the imaginary one used in the USA before
1972.
Jan Eyerman
"Louis & Laila" <bwana@c2i2.com> wrote:
HP is HP, but I am sure it is the difference in torque that the conversion
people are after.
----- Original Message -----
> Which would make the 90 bhp DIN for these V6s about 97 'Rootes' bhp
>
> Vic
> S3 ST with 82 'Rootes' bhp (about 76 bhp DIN) + whatever extractors,
downdraft
> Weber and slightly higher compression gives
>
>
>
>
>
> Jan Eyerman wrote:
>
> > Rootes HP was actually quite conservative. I believe that the 1968
Rapier was
> > quoted as 95 HP and was 88 DIN HP. The Early Minxes were quoted as 53
HP and
> > were 47 or 48 DIN. Nothing like some US cars which went decreased from
200+
> > HP to 130 SAE/DIN HP.
> >
> > Jan Eyerman
> > 1959 Hillman Minx Series III DeLuxe (52 1/2 HP or 47 DIN HP)
> > 1973 Hillman Avenger DL (70 HP or 55 DIN HP)
> >
> > Victor Hughes <hughes@scides.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
> > From the websites I found in Europe, the 2.0 was 90 bhp, the 2.3 was 105
and
> > the
> > 2.6 was 125. That's in the European DIN way of quoting, which I
understand is
> > more conservative than the method used by Rootes in the 1960s. So 90
bhp (or
> > PS
> > as they say in Europe) DIN may well be worth about 100 Rootes English
bhp.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Vic
> >
> > Jarrid Gross wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Actually the 2.8 engine was 105 HP, the 2.0 would run in the 80 HP
realm,
> > > which would leave you with little more than a new engine, and a tad
more
> > > torque.
> > >
> > > Jarrid
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Alexander Adan" <adadan@sfsu.edu>
> > > To: "Jarrid Gross" <jarrid_gross@earthlink.net>
> > > Cc: "Alpine List" <alpines@autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:27 PM
> > > Subject: Re: 400each 2.6 V6s on Ebay
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the info, Jarrid. I wondered what, if any differences
existed
> > > between the
> > > > various German Ford V6 motors, and whether there might be some extra
> > > difficulties with this
> > > > smaller version of the motor. I've been thinking that it might be
wise
> > to
> > > buy more than
> > > > one, if I can scrape up the funds and find a place to put it.
> > > >
> > > > For others curious about the motors, basically it's the smallest
> > > displacement version of
> > > > the German Ford V6, which is a popular conversion for Alpines. From
what
> > > I understand the
> > > > block is the same and thus the conversion kit that is used for the
2.8
> > > liter motor could be
> > > > used for this, even though it's only a 2.0 liter motor. I'm not
sure of
> > > this however, and
> > > > need to do more research.
> > > >
> > > > The motors were listed in a "Dutch" auction on ebay starting at $250
> > each,
> > > and they are
> > > > described as unused surplus motors rather than rebuilt. Since only
two
> > of
> > > the 400 motors
> > > > were sold in the ebay auction, the seller still has a bunch to sell.
> > From
> > > the exchange
> > > > I've had with her so far I think she's willing to sell them for the
> > > starting price of $250
> > > > plus a shipping and packing charge--I don't know yet how she feels
about
> > > the motors being
> > > > picked up in person. (Possibly a savings for me as I live in
> > California.)
> > > >
> > > > Here's her original description of the motors, from the ebay
auction:
> > > >
> > > > COMPLETE...READY TO INSTALL New 2.0 Liter V6 Assemblies consist of
> > > Cylinder block w/
> > > > piston, cylinder heads, crank and camshaft, Flywheel, Intake, Oil
Filter,
> > > Oil Pan, Spark
> > > > Plugs, 2 Barrel Carb., Distributor w/ wires, Water Pumps, Fuel Pump,
> > Valve
> > > Covers, All
> > > > internal Parts in Engine. (2000 CC) Standard Application: Taunus,
> > Granada,
> > > Consul
> > > >
> > > > Alex Adan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jarrid Gross wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Carefull on the magic german V6 engines.
> > > > >
> > > > > Parts are absolutely NOT available in the US, and
> > > > > some parts like the exhaust manifolds, which you will
> > > > > need, are not the same as the larger (2.8) V6, and
> > > > > might be tough to find as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Transmisions COULD also be of concern becuase
> > > > > ford was fond of changing the locations of the starter,
> > > > > making otherwise compatible transmisions dependant
> > > > > upon a particular bellhousing, input shaft length, and
> > > > > consequently a specific transmision.
> > > > > Case in point is that the german V6 in US Capris
> > > > > used an external shifter version of the pinto single
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > rail transmision due to the fact that the pinto engine
> > > > > and bellhousing used a ford starter, and the german
> > > > > mercury engine used a bosch starter on the opposite
> > > > > side of the engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think these engines would be a steal at $250
> > > > > considering that they are new, just be aware of the
> > > > > true cost of ownership once you get them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jarrid Gross
> > > > >
> > > > > Alexander Adan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know if anyone is still interested in the V6 engines
that
> > were
> > > on ebay, but
> > > > > > I've been in touch with the woman who is selling them, and she
has
> > > plenty left
> > > > > > (according to the auction results, there was one bidder who took
two
> > > motors out of the
> > > > > > 400). She told me that these are unused surplus motors, not
rebuilt.
> > > I'm in
> > > > > > California, so I'm seriously considering picking one up for a V6
> > > conversion as my
> > > > > > pieced together (by a previous owner) Series IV has been garaged
due
> > > to alarming (and
> > > > > > expensive sounding) noises that go away when the front
spark-plug
> > wire
> > > is pulled.
> > > > > > I've needed a new transmission for quite awhile as well, so I'm
> > > thinking about
> > > > > > swapping the whole works.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If anyone is interested in more information about the motors,
let me
> > > know and I'll be
> > > > > > happy to ask her.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alex Adan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > '65 Series IV with Series II clutch, homebrew soft top, and who
knows
> > > what else. . .
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