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I just go to NY and buy the nonalcohol gas they have for sale for my small =
engine stuff. Would work here, don't know availability elsewhere. Joe
Joe Mato62 Wood RoadRedding, CT 06896917 232 1555=20
On Friday, June 7, 2019, 2:01:18 PM EDT, triumphs-request@autox.team.ne=
t <triumphs-request@autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 triumphs@autox.team.net
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 triumphs-request@autox.team.net
You can reach the person managing the list at
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 triumphs-owner@autox.team.net
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
Today's Topics:
=C2=A0 1. U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 E15 Gasoline (Pete Arakelian)
=C2=A0 2. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline (Randall)
=C2=A0 3. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline (Greg Lemon)
=C2=A0 4. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline (Randall)
=C2=A0 5. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline (Michael Porter)
=C2=A0 6. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline (Randall)
=C2=A0 7. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline (Michael Porter)
=C2=A0 8. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline (DAVID MASSEY)
=C2=A0 9. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline (Randall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 20:04:08 +0000
From: Pete Arakelian <Arakelianp@mossmotors.com>
To: "'triumphs@autox.team.net'" <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Subject: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 of E15 Gasoline
Message-ID:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <CO2PR05MB2423D14594266C3A6DC50715A9170@CO2PR05MB2423.na=
mprd05.prod.outlook.com>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2019/23/us-epa-finalizes-rulemaking-to-perm=
it-year-round-sales-of-e15-gasoline?utm_source=3DET&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_=
content=3D251663&utm_campaign=3DeNews3.5
EPA has authorized year round sale of E15.=C2=A0 What is that going to do t=
o our cars?
Peter Arakelian - '71 TR6
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:05:47 -0700
From: "Randall" <TR3driver@ca.rr.com>
To: "'Pete Arakelian'" <Arakelianp@mossmotors.com>,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sales of E15 Gasoline
> EPA has authorized year round sale of E15.=C2=A0 What is that=20
> going to do to our cars?
Not much, especially if you don't put it in the tank.
Seems like a sales opportunity to me, though.=C2=A0 Find (or have made) som=
e carb
needles that are better calibrated to E15 and the world will beat a path to
your door.
-- Randall=20
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild=20
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 22:24:52 +0200
From: Greg Lemon <grglmn@gmail.com>
To: Randall <TR3driver@ca.rr.com>
Cc: Pete Arakelian <Arakelianp@mossmotors.com>,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sales of E15 Gasoline
Message-ID:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <CAFtw3aaZ-FtZkreV37rp-JkLs5fRbtZBsiQmm9PpP2H0PjFpiQ@mai=
l.gmail.com>
I will get the Dremel out and see what I can come up with, just take a
little of the needle to allow more fual and compensate for lower energy
content, right??=C2=A0 Of course may write up will say "digitally (read
"fingers") developed and manufactured to the finest tolerances by Craftsmen
with a lifetime of experience in British engineering (read "fiddling about
with MGs and Triumphs and stuff until they start and idle reasonably
reliable") these special needles will improve the performance of your
Triumph over a broad range of....."
Regards,
Greg Lemon
TR250
On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 10:10 PM Randall <TR3driver@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > EPA has authorized year round sale of E15.=C2=A0 What is that
> > going to do to our cars?
>
> Not much, especially if you don't put it in the tank.
>
> Seems like a sales opportunity to me, though.=C2=A0 Find (or have made) s=
ome
> carb
> needles that are better calibrated to E15 and the world will beat a path =
to
> your door.
>
> -- Randall
> 56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
> 71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
> 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild
>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/grglmn@gmail.com
>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:57:42 -0700
From: "Randall" <TR3driver@ca.rr.com>
To: "'Greg Lemon'" <grglmn@gmail.com>
Cc: <triumphs@autox.team.net>, "'Pete Arakelian'"
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <Arakelianp@mossmotors.com>
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sales of E15 Gasoline
Perhaps I should mention, there is nothing about changing the E15 warning
label, which says to only use E15 in 2001 and newer vehicles.=C2=A0 Since t=
he
last Triumph was some 20 years before that, even the EPA does not recommend
using it in Triumphs.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/EPA_E15_warning_label.j=
p
g
Personally, I think having more choice is a Good Thing, even if the choices
are not things I want to choose.=C2=A0 AFAIK, the state of California does =
not
allow E15 here (yet), but I've pulled up to lots of gas pumps in other part=
s
of the country where the button for E15 is right next to the one for E85.
Didn't hurt me or my car a bit! (Since I didn't push either one of them.)
> I will get the Dremel out and see what I can come up with,=20
> just take a little of the needle to allow more fual and=20
> compensate for lower energy content, right??=C2=A0=20
Those brass needles are really soft; I would suggest a fine tooth file and =
a
light touch rather than a Dremel.=C2=A0 I haven't worked out how big the fl=
at
should be, but it won't take much.=C2=A0 You're only looking for something =
like
5% more fuel (or maybe 6%, depending on whose numbers you believe).
Again assuming you want to run E15 in the first place.
-- Randall
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 15:58:38 -0600
From: Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com>
To: Randall <TR3driver@ca.rr.com>, 'Greg Lemon' <grglmn@gmail.com>
Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net, 'Pete Arakelian'
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <Arakelianp@mossmotors.com>
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sales of E15 Gasoline
On 6/6/2019 2:57 PM, Randall wrote:
>
> Those brass needles are really soft; I would suggest a fine tooth file an=
d a
> light touch rather than a Dremel.=C2=A0 I haven't worked out how big the =
flat
> should be, but it won't take much.=C2=A0 You're only looking for somethin=
g like
> 5% more fuel (or maybe 6%, depending on whose numbers you believe).
>
> Again assuming you want to run E15 in the first place.
>
The calculation is .85 x 115.5 + .15 x 76.0/115.5 =3D 0.94874, nominally -=
=20
5.125%.? But, there are other considerations.? The latent heat of=20
evaporation of alcohol is pretty high, so the flame front will propagate=20
a bit more slowly, which means the advance can be raised slightly.? And,=20
since the octane rating for ethanol is 110, the compression ratio can be=20
raised slightly with no ill effect.? Both of those effects translate to=20
slightly better mileage, or at least mitigate the loss in fuel value.?=20
The octane increase is not insubstantial.? If the gasoline in the blend=20
is 87 octane, the total blend with 15% ethanol is 90.5.
Anyone operating at altitudes well above sea level will probably see a=20
slight improvement in performance, because of an oxygen atom in the=20
alcohol molecule, presuming that all else is right with the engine=20
(i.e., mixture correct and timing adjusted for altitude).
The bugaboo, I suppose, is that some people may still have rubber hoses=20
installed that aren't alcohol-proof, and that's something that would=20
have to be corrected.? Buna-n (nitrile) will work, but with shorter=20
life, but neoprene or SBR (styrene-butadiene rubber) would have good=20
resistance to alcohol and are readily available. Anyone contemplating=20
replacement of rubber hoses with braided stainless steel w/Teflon liners=20
should avoid that.? Nylon or XLPE liners are fine.
But, in general, go easy on needle mods.? For SUs and Strombergs, simple=20
mixture enrichment and a little fiddling with the advance may get one=20
most of the way there.? Plug cuts will tell the tale.
Cheers.
--=20
Michael Porter
Roswell, NM
Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance=
....
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 17:07:03 -0700
From: "Randall" <TR3driver@ca.rr.com>
Cc: <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sales of E15 Gasoline
> ? If the gasoline in the blend is 87 octane,=20
> the total blend with 15% ethanol is 90.5.
Seems like a big IF to me.=C2=A0 More likely, they'll use a lower (cheaper)=
cut
of gasoline, so the overall octane will remain much the same.=C2=A0 The E15=
pumps
I've seen are still posted at around 87 octane.
-- Randall
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 18:19:12 -0600
From: Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com>
To: Randall <TR3driver@ca.rr.com>
Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sales of E15 Gasoline
On 6/6/2019 6:07 PM, Randall wrote:
>>=C2=A0 ? If the gasoline in the blend is 87 octane,
>> the total blend with 15% ethanol is 90.5.
> Seems like a big IF to me.=C2=A0 More likely, they'll use a lower (cheape=
r) cut
> of gasoline, so the overall octane will remain much the same.=C2=A0 The E=
15 pumps
> I've seen are still posted at around 87 octane.
>
Very possible.? I don't think we have any around here (although there=20
are a few around with "ethanol added," probably at rates of 8-10%, and,=20
yeah, those are not uniformly rated at higher octane), so I can only=20
guess at E15.
Cheers.
--=20
Michael Porter
Roswell, NM
Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance=
....
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 01:15:10 +0000 (UTC)
From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey@cs.com>
To: mdporter@dfn.com, TR3driver@ca.rr.com, grglmn@gmail.com
Cc: triumphs@autox.team.net, Arakelianp@mossmotors.com
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sales of E15 Gasoline
I would have thought you can get +\- 5% changes just in the adjustments av=
ailable.
The other consideration is what does the alcohol do the the rubber parts in=
the fuel system.? Here in the Midwest we have had 5% alcohol in our gas fo=
r decades.? Both my cars suffered fuel pump failures when the pump diaphrag=
m? went all stiff and cardboardy on me.? I fitted an electric pump to the T=
R6 and a rebuild kit in the TR3 is still working just fine.? Replacing all =
the fuel hoses is a good idea, too.
=20
Dave=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com>
To: Randall <TR3driver@ca.rr.com>; 'Greg Lemon' <grglmn@gmail.com>
Cc: triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>; 'Pete Arakelian' <Arakelianp@mossmo=
tors.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 6, 2019 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales =
of E15 Gasoline
On 6/6/2019 2:57 PM, Randall wrote:
>
> Those brass needles are really soft; I would suggest a fine tooth file an=
d a
> light touch rather than a Dremel.? I haven't worked out how big the flat
> should be, but it won't take much.? You're only looking for something lik=
e
> 5% more fuel (or maybe 6%, depending on whose numbers you believe).
>
> Again assuming you want to run E15 in the first place.
>
The calculation is .85 x 115.5 + .15 x 76.0/115.5 =3D 0.94874, nominally -=
=20
5.125%.? But, there are other considerations.? The latent heat of=20
evaporation of alcohol is pretty high, so the flame front will propagate=20
a bit more slowly, which means the advance can be raised slightly.? And,=20
since the octane rating for ethanol is 110, the compression ratio can be=20
raised slightly with no ill effect.? Both of those effects translate to=20
slightly better mileage, or at least mitigate the loss in fuel value.?=20
The octane increase is not insubstantial.? If the gasoline in the blend=20
is 87 octane, the total blend with 15% ethanol is 90.5.
Anyone operating at altitudes well above sea level will probably see a=20
slight improvement in performance, because of an oxygen atom in the=20
alcohol molecule, presuming that all else is right with the engine=20
(i.e., mixture correct and timing adjusted for altitude).
The bugaboo, I suppose, is that some people may still have rubber hoses=20
installed that aren't alcohol-proof, and that's something that would=20
have to be corrected.? Buna-n (nitrile) will work, but with shorter=20
life, but neoprene or SBR (styrene-butadiene rubber) would have good=20
resistance to alcohol and are readily available. Anyone contemplating=20
replacement of rubber hoses with braided stainless steel w/Teflon liners=20
should avoid that.? Nylon or XLPE liners are fine.
But, in general, go easy on needle mods.? For SUs and Strombergs, simple=20
mixture enrichment and a little fiddling with the advance may get one=20
most of the way there.? Plug cuts will tell the tale.
Cheers.
--=20
Michael Porter
Roswell, NM
Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance=
....
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 20:10:33 -0700
From: "Randall" <TR3driver@ca.rr.com>
Cc: <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sales of E15 Gasoline
> I would have thought you can get +\- 5% changes just in the=20
> adjustments available.
A stock TR250 lacks mixture adjustment at all; the later TR6 carbs have onl=
y
a very limited range of adjustment.=C2=A0 And it mostly affects idle, the e=
ffect
on open throttle is even less.
> The other consideration is what does the alcohol do the the=20
> rubber parts in the fuel system.=20
Agreed, but E15 isn't going to be any worse in that respect than E10; which
is already available everywhere, year round.
> Replacing all the fuel hoses is a good idea, too.
Good idea anyway, if they haven't been done in the past decade or two.=C2=
=A0 The
original type hoses are only good for 10-20 years, even without ethanol in
the fuel.
But anything sold in the US as "fuel line" in the past 20 years or so shoul=
d
be ethanol-resistant.
-- Randall
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Triumphs mailing list
Triumphs@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
------------------------------
End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 12, Issue 123
*****************************************
=20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp4550b4cyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D=
"font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><div><div>I=
just go to NY and buy the nonalcohol gas they have for sale for my small e=
ngine stuff. Would work here, don't know availability elsewhere. Joe</div><=
div><br></div><div class=3D"ydp4550b4csignature">Joe Mato<div>62 Wood Road<=
/div><div>Redding, CT 06896</div><div>917 232 1555</div></div></div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydpc21efe6dyahoo_quoted_0942502377" class=3D"ydpc2=
1efe6dyahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Friday, June 7, 2019, 2:01:18 PM EDT, triumphs-reque=
st@autox.team.net <triumphs-request@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">Send Triumphs mailing list submission=
s to<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <a href=3D"mailto:triumph=
s@autox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.ne=
t</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To subscribe or =
unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> &=
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mphs</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">or, via email, send a message with subje=
ct or body 'help' to<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <a href=
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iv dir=3D"ltr"> <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-owner@autox.te=
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><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">When replying, pleas=
e edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">t=
han "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Today's Topics:<br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> 1. U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulem=
aking to Permit Year-Round Sales of<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> =
E15 Gasoline (Pete Arakelian)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> 2. =
Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"> of E15 Gasoline (Randall)<br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"> 3. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round=
Sales<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> of E15 Gasoline (Greg=
Lemon)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> 4. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemak=
ing to Permit Year-Round Sales<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> &nbs=
p; of E15 Gasoline (Randall)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> 5. Re: U.S. =
EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"> of E15 Gasoline (Michael Porter)<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"> 6. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round =
Sales<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> of E15 Gasoline (Randa=
ll)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> 7. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking =
to Permit Year-Round Sales<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> o=
f E15 Gasoline (Michael Porter)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> 8. Re: U.=
S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales<br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"> of E15 Gasoline (DAVID MASSEY)<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"> 9. Re: U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round =
Sales<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> of E15 Gasoline (Randa=
ll)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------=
----<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 1<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 20:04:08 +0000<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">From: Pete Arakelian <<a href=3D"mailto:Arakelianp@mossmotors.c=
om" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Arakelianp@mossmotors.com</a>><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: "'<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; re=
l=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>'" <<a href=
=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triu=
mphs@autox.team.net</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: [TR] U.S. EP=
A Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
> of E15 Gasoline<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID:<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:CO2PR05MB=
2423D14594266C3A6DC50715A9170@CO2PR05MB2423.namprd05.prod.outlook.com" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">CO2PR05MB2423D14594266C3A6DC50715A9170@CO2P=
R05MB2423.namprd05.prod.outlook.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> =
; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=
=3D"us-ascii"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=
=3D"https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2019/23/us-epa-finalizes-rulemaking-to-=
permit-year-round-sales-of-e15-gasoline?utm_source=3DET&utm_medium=3Dem=
ail&utm_content=3D251663&utm_campaign=3DeNews3.5" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2019/23/us-epa-finalizes-=
rulemaking-to-permit-year-round-sales-of-e15-gasoline?utm_source=3DET&u=
tm_medium=3Demail&utm_content=3D251663&utm_campaign=3DeNews3.5</a><=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">EPA has authorized year round sale of E15.&=
nbsp; What is that going to do to our cars?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>Peter Arakelian - '71 TR6<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next pa=
rt --------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed=
...<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">URL: <<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pip=
ermail/triumphs/attachments/20190606/c44759c2/attachment-0001.html" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attach=
ments/20190606/c44759c2/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 2<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:05:47 -0700<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: "Ran=
dall" <<a href=3D"mailto:TR3driver@ca.rr.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank">TR3driver@ca.rr.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: "'Pete A=
rakelian'" <<a href=3D"mailto:Arakelianp@mossmotors.com"; rel=3D"nofollow=
" target=3D"_blank">Arakelianp@mossmotors.com</a>>,<br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Ye=
ar-Round<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> Sales of E15 Gasoline=
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: <<a href=3D"mailto:02CFBDF94A114C=
64BBA34ABFF7FB0EFB@RYPC" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">02CFBDF94A114C6=
4BBA34ABFF7FB0EFB@RYPC</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text=
/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> EPA has authorized=
year round sale of E15. What is that <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">>=
going to do to our cars?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Not much, especially if you don't put it in the tank.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Seems like a sales opportunity to me, t=
hough. Find (or have made) some carb<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">needle=
s that are better calibrated to E15 and the world will beat a path to<br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">your door.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">-- Randall <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">56 TR3 TS13571L once and fu=
ture daily driver<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engin=
e rebuild<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild =
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 3<br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 22:24:52 +0200<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: Gr=
eg Lemon <<a href=3D"mailto:grglmn@gmail.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank">grglmn@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: Randall <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:TR3driver@ca.rr.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">=
TR3driver@ca.rr.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cc: Pete Arakelian &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:Arakelianp@mossmotors.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_=
blank">Arakelianp@mossmotors.com</a>>,<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> &=
nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subjec=
t: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round<br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"> Sales of E15 Gasoline<br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <<a href=
=3D"mailto:CAFtw3aaZ-FtZkreV37rp-JkLs5fRbtZBsiQmm9PpP2H0PjFpiQ@mail.gmail.c=
om" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">CAFtw3aaZ-FtZkreV37rp-JkLs5fRbtZBsiQ=
mm9PpP2H0PjFpiQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Ty=
pe: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">I will get the Dremel out and see what I can come up with, just=
take a<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">little of the needle to allow more fual a=
nd compensate for lower energy<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">content, right??&n=
bsp; Of course may write up will say "digitally (read<br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">"fingers") developed and manufactured to the finest tolerances by Craf=
tsmen<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">with a lifetime of experience in British en=
gineering (read "fiddling about<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">with MGs and Triu=
mphs and stuff until they start and idle reasonably<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">reliable") these special needles will improve the performance of your<br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Triumph over a broad range of....."<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Greg Lemon<br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">TR250<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">On=
Thu, Jun 6, 2019, 10:10 PM Randall <<a href=3D"mailto:TR3driver@ca.rr.c=
om" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">TR3driver@ca.rr.com</a>> wrote:<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">> > EPA has authorized year round sale of E15. What is=
that<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> > going to do to our cars?<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Not much, especially =
if you don't put it in the tank.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">> Seems like a sales opportunity to me, though. Fin=
d (or have made) some<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> carb<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">> needles that are better calibrated to E15 and the world will =
beat a path to<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> your door.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> -- Randall<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">> 56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">> 71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">> 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild<br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> ** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox=
.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a> *=
*<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Archive=
: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">>=
;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Unsubscribe/Manage:<br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/grglmn@g=
mail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/=
options/triumphs/grglmn@gmail.com</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">URL=
: <<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20190=
606/4fd3b94b/attachment-0001.html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20190606/4fd3b94b/attachmen=
t-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">--=
----------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Message: 4<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:57:4=
2 -0700<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: "Randall" <<a href=3D"mailto:TR3=
driver@ca.rr.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">TR3driver@ca.rr.com</a=
>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: "'Greg Lemon'" <<a href=3D"mailto:gr=
glmn@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">grglmn@gmail.com</a>>=
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.ne=
t" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>>, "'Pe=
te Arakelian'"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"=
mailto:Arakelianp@mossmotors.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Arakel=
ianp@mossmotors.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] U.S=
. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&=
nbsp; Sales of E15 Gasoline<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-I=
D: <<a href=3D"mailto:A977DEC0BB084269B41EE85B61224458@RYPC"; rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">A977DEC0BB084269B41EE85B61224458@RYPC</a>><br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D=
"us-ascii"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Perhaps I s=
hould mention, there is nothing about changing the E15 warning<br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">label, which says to only use E15 in 2001 and newer vehicles.=
Since the<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">last Triumph was some 20 years b=
efore that, even the EPA does not recommend<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">using=
it in Triumphs.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://upload.wikime=
dia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/EPA_E15_warning_label.jp" rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/EPA_E1=
5_warning_label.jp</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">g<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Personally, I think having more choice is a Go=
od Thing, even if the choices<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">are not things I wa=
nt to choose. AFAIK, the state of California does not<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">allow E15 here (yet), but I've pulled up to lots of gas pumps in=
other parts<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">of the country where the button for =
E15 is right next to the one for E85.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Didn't hurt=
me or my car a bit! (Since I didn't push either one of them.)<br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> I will get the Dremel out and=
see what I can come up with, <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> just take a l=
ittle of the needle to allow more fual and <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> =
compensate for lower energy content, right?? <br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Those brass needles are really soft; I would =
suggest a fine tooth file and a<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">light touch rathe=
r than a Dremel. I haven't worked out how big the flat<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">should be, but it won't take much. You're only looking fo=
r something like<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">5% more fuel (or maybe 6%, depen=
ding on whose numbers you believe).<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">Again assuming you want to run E15 in the first place.<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-- Randall<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 5<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Thu, 6 J=
un 2019 15:58:38 -0600<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: Michael Porter <<=
a href=3D"mailto:mdporter@dfn.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">mdpor=
ter@dfn.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: Randall <<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:TR3driver@ca.rr.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">TR3driver@ca.r=
r.com</a>>, 'Greg Lemon' <<a href=3D"mailto:grglmn@gmail.com"; rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">grglmn@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>, 'Pete Arakelian'<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:Arakelianp@mossmotors.com=
" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Arakelianp@mossmotors.com</a>><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Pe=
rmit Year-Round<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> Sales of E15 G=
asoline<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: <<a href=3D"mailto:b30a33b=
c-b354-19df-058d-3f4099a0420c@dfn.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">b=
30a33bc-b354-19df-058d-3f4099a0420c@dfn.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8; format=3Dflowed<br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">On 6/6/2019 2:57 PM, Randall wrote:=
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Those brass =
needles are really soft; I would suggest a fine tooth file and a<br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">> light touch rather than a Dremel. I haven't work=
ed out how big the flat<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> should be, but it wo=
n't take much. You're only looking for something like<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">> 5% more fuel (or maybe 6%, depending on whose numbers you b=
elieve).<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Agai=
n assuming you want to run E15 in the first place.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The calculation is .85 x 115.5 + .15 x 76.=
0/115.5 =3D 0.94874, nominally - <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">5.125%.? But, t=
here are other considerations.? The latent heat of <br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">evaporation of alcohol is pretty high, so the flame front will propagate=
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">a bit more slowly, which means the advance can =
be raised slightly.? And, <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">since the octane ratin=
g for ethanol is 110, the compression ratio can be <br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">raised slightly with no ill effect.? Both of those effects translate to =
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">slightly better mileage, or at least mitigate th=
e loss in fuel value.? <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The octane increase is no=
t insubstantial.? If the gasoline in the blend <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">i=
s 87 octane, the total blend with 15% ethanol is 90.5.<br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Anyone operating at altitudes well above s=
ea level will probably see a <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">slight improvement =
in performance, because of an oxygen atom in the <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>alcohol molecule, presuming that all else is right with the engine <br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">(i.e., mixture correct and timing adjusted for altitude=
).<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The bugaboo, I supp=
ose, is that some people may still have rubber hoses <br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">installed that aren't alcohol-proof, and that's something that would <=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">have to be corrected.? Buna-n (nitrile) will work=
, but with shorter <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">life, but neoprene or SBR (st=
yrene-butadiene rubber) would have good <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">resistan=
ce to alcohol and are readily available. Anyone contemplating <br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">replacement of rubber hoses with braided stainless steel w/Te=
flon liners <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">should avoid that.? Nylon or XLPE li=
ners are fine.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">But, in=
general, go easy on needle mods.? For SUs and Strombergs, simple <br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">mixture enrichment and a little fiddling with the advance=
may get one <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">most of the way there.? Plug cuts w=
ill tell the tale.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cheers.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">-- <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">Michael Porter<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Roswell, NM<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distan=
ce....<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">---------=
---------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
Message: 6<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 17:07:03 -0700<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: "Randall" <<a href=3D"mailto:TR3driver@ca=
.rr.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">TR3driver@ca.rr.com</a>><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit =
Year-Round<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> Sales of E15 Gasoli=
ne<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: <<a href=3D"mailto:ECA4BD187679=
404DAD309148AF719B16@RYPC" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">ECA4BD1876794=
04DAD309148AF719B16@RYPC</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: te=
xt/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> ? If the gasol=
ine in the blend is 87 octane, <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> the total bl=
end with 15% ethanol is 90.5.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Seems like a big IF to me. More likely, they'll use a lower =
(cheaper) cut<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">of gasoline, so the overall octane =
will remain much the same. The E15 pumps<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I'=
ve seen are still posted at around 87 octane.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-- Randall<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">--------=
----------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>Message: 7<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 18:19:12 -0600<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: Michael Porter <<a href=3D"mailto:mdport=
er@dfn.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">mdporter@dfn.com</a>><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: Randall <<a href=3D"mailto:TR3driver@ca.rr.co=
m" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">TR3driver@ca.rr.com</a>><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"> Sales of E15 Gasoline<br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: <<a href=3D"mailto:1dd9d772-3b4f-dc84-ad0a-b8=
cbb7864141@dfn.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">1dd9d772-3b4f-dc84-a=
d0a-b8cbb7864141@dfn.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: te=
xt/plain; charset=3Dutf-8; format=3Dflowed<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">On 6/6/2019 6:07 PM, Randall wrote:<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">>> ? If the gasoline in the blend is 87 octane,<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">>> the total blend with 15% ethanol is 90.5.<br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Seems like a big IF to me. More likely, th=
ey'll use a lower (cheaper) cut<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> of gasoline,=
so the overall octane will remain much the same. The E15 pumps<br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">> I've seen are still posted at around 87 octane.<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Very possible.? I d=
on't think we have any around here (although there <br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">are a few around with "ethanol added," probably at rates of 8-10%, and, =
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">yeah, those are not uniformly rated at higher oc=
tane), so I can only <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">guess at E15.<br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cheers.<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-- <br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Michael Port=
er<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Roswell, NM<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Never let anyone drive you cr=
azy when you know it's within walking distance....<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message: 8<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 01:15:10 +0000 (UTC)<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">From: DAVID MASSEY <<a href=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.com"; rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">dave1massey@cs.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">To: <a href=3D"mailto:mdporter@dfn.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank=
">mdporter@dfn.com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:TR3driver@ca.rr.com"; rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank">TR3driver@ca.rr.com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:grglmn@gm=
ail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">grglmn@gmail.com</a><br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:Arake=
lianp@mossmotors.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Arakelianp@mossmot=
ors.com</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes =
Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">  =
; Sales of E15 Gasoline<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: <<a href=
=3D"mailto:1360013097.13274.1559870110702@mail.yahoo.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">1360013097.13274.1559870110702@mail.yahoo.com</a>><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> I would have thought you can =
get +\- 5% changes just in the adjustments available.<br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">The other consideration is what does the alcohol do the the rubber par=
ts in the fuel system.? Here in the Midwest we have had 5% alcohol in our g=
as for decades.? Both my cars suffered fuel pump failures when the pump dia=
phragm? went all stiff and cardboardy on me.? I fitted an electric pump to =
the TR6 and a rebuild kit in the TR3 is still working just fine.? Replacing=
all the fuel hoses is a good idea, too.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">Dave <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-----Original M=
essage-----<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: Michael Porter <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:mdporter@dfn.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">mdporter@dfn.com=
</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">To: Randall <<a href=3D"mailto:TR3dri=
ver@ca.rr.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">TR3driver@ca.rr.com</a>&g=
t;; 'Greg Lemon' <<a href=3D"mailto:grglmn@gmail.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank">grglmn@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cc: tri=
umphs <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>>; 'Pete Arakelian' <<a href=
=3D"mailto:Arakelianp@mossmotors.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Ar=
akelianp@mossmotors.com</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent: Thu, Jun 6,=
2019 4:59 pm<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalize=
s Rulemaking to Permit Year-Round Sales of E15 Gasoline<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">On 6/6/2019 2:57 PM, Randall wrote:<br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Those brass need=
les are really soft; I would suggest a fine tooth file and a<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">> light touch rather than a Dremel.? I haven't worked out ho=
w big the flat<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> should be, but it won't take =
much.? You're only looking for something like<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">>=
; 5% more fuel (or maybe 6%, depending on whose numbers you believe).<br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> Again assuming you=
want to run E15 in the first place.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">The calculation is .85 x 115.5 + .15 x 76.0/115.5 =3D 0.=
94874, nominally - <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">5.125%.? But, there are other=
considerations.? The latent heat of <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">evaporation=
of alcohol is pretty high, so the flame front will propagate <br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">a bit more slowly, which means the advance can be raised slig=
htly.? And, <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">since the octane rating for ethanol =
is 110, the compression ratio can be <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">raised slig=
htly with no ill effect.? Both of those effects translate to <br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr">slightly better mileage, or at least mitigate the loss in fuel=
value.? <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The octane increase is not insubstantia=
l.? If the gasoline in the blend <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">is 87 octane, t=
he total blend with 15% ethanol is 90.5.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">Anyone operating at altitudes well above sea level will =
probably see a <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">slight improvement in performance=
, because of an oxygen atom in the <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">alcohol molec=
ule, presuming that all else is right with the engine <br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">(i.e., mixture correct and timing adjusted for altitude).<br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The bugaboo, I suppose, is that s=
ome people may still have rubber hoses <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">installed=
that aren't alcohol-proof, and that's something that would <br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">have to be corrected.? Buna-n (nitrile) will work, but with sho=
rter <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">life, but neoprene or SBR (styrene-butadien=
e rubber) would have good <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">resistance to alcohol =
and are readily available. Anyone contemplating <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
replacement of rubber hoses with braided stainless steel w/Teflon liners <b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">should avoid that.? Nylon or XLPE liners are fine.=
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">But, in general, go e=
asy on needle mods.? For SUs and Strombergs, simple <br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">mixture enrichment and a little fiddling with the advance may get one <=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">most of the way there.? Plug cuts will tell the t=
ale.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">Cheers.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-- <=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Michael Porter<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Roswell, NM<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Never let an=
yone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....<br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">URL: <<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/=
20190607/9c652b95/attachment-0001.html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">=
http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20190607/9c652b95/atta=
chment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">------------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">Message: 9<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 20:1=
0:33 -0700<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">From: "Randall" <<a href=3D"mailto:=
TR3driver@ca.rr.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">TR3driver@ca.rr.com=
</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cc: <<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox=
.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>&g=
t;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Re: [TR] U.S. EPA Finalizes Rulemakin=
g to Permit Year-Round<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"> Sales o=
f E15 Gasoline<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Message-ID: <<a href=3D"mailto:=
A12FA1F5183E45BBBBABF7B7B47C438E@RYPC" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">A=
12FA1F5183E45BBBBABF7B7B47C438E@RYPC</a>><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cont=
ent-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"<br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> I wo=
uld have thought you can get +\- 5% changes just in the <br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">> adjustments available.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">A stock TR250 lacks mixture adjustment at all; the later TR6=
carbs have only<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">a very limited range of adjustme=
nt. And it mostly affects idle, the effect<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
on open throttle is even less.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">> The other consideration is what does the alcohol do the the <=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> rubber parts in the fuel system. <br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Agreed, but E15 isn't going to b=
e any worse in that respect than E10; which<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">is al=
ready available everywhere, year round.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">> Replacing all the fuel hoses is a good idea, too.<br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Good idea anyway, if the=
y haven't been done in the past decade or two. The<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">original type hoses are only good for 10-20 years, even without et=
hanol in<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">the fuel.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">But anything sold in the US as "fuel line" in the pa=
st 20 years or so should<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">be ethanol-resistant.<br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-- Randall<br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">______________________________________________=
_<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Triumphs mailing lis=
t<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"mailto:Triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs"; rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triu=
mphs</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 12, Issue 123<br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">*****************************************<br></div></div>
</div>
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