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[Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor discovery and update

Subject: [Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor discovery and update
From: johnstydo at gmail.com (John Styduhar)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 14:22:23 -0400
References: <1496073395.378283.1531254099121@connect.xfinity.com> <000001d4191c$23b6fac0$6b24f040$@gmail.com> <002101d4192b$ccfd2fa0$66f78ee0$@gmail.com> <5D3076785B8A61C5.41E5DF95-760C-4BB7-9248-CEC5A8426678@mail.outlook.com> <8E56E6CE-D9CC-46E5-A2C2-96E5166BE1E7@mhc-law.com> <5D3076785B8A61C5.D479DDDF-875A-4D7E-BFCE-999DCDA5B50B@mail.outlook.com> <BN6PR22MB033849FB53B7668FBE2C63AD99590@BN6PR22MB0338.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
The stock TR3B-6 brake caliper mounting bracket for the 16P caliper won't
accommodate the larger diameter 11" rotor.

On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 9:56 AM, John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> I was wondering about exactly this.  The 6 rotor is 10.5? and the 3 rotor
> is 11?
>
>
>
>
>
> *John H. Hasty*
>
> *Attorney at Law*
>
> *Mullen Holland & Cooper P.A.*
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
> mhc-law.com | jhasty at mhc-law.com <akisby-meadows at mhc-law.com>
>
>
>
>
>
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> *From:* Ashley Page [mailto:apage at prosystembrakes.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:35 PM
> *To:* John H. Hasty <jhasty at mhc-law.com>
> *Cc:* timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor discovery and update
>
>
>
> As far as braking effect it?s simple math. Assuming the master cylinder,
> pad compound and rotors  are not changed then the calipers with the largest
> dia pistons will, for a given pedal effort, generate more clamping force.
> If you care to to go to extremes then you would also factor in the distance
> from the axle center to the CG of the pad friction which is the ?friction
> radius? - but that?s picking the fly poop out of the pepper for what you
> are doing.
>
> Other considerations:
>
>
>
> Assuming the TR6 caliper will bolt up to the TR3 knuckle, you would need
> to make sure the rotor path through the caliper would accept the bigger
> rotor- likely would but should be checked. At some point a rotor with
> larger dia than the caliper is designed for will touch the rotor path at
> the ends of the caliper (to small of rotor will touch in the path next to
> the pad opening). In both those extremes the pads typically won?t fit
> either.
>
>
>
> Another issue to check is rotor thickness. If the TR3 rotor is thinner
> then make sure as the pads wear that a caliper piston can?t come out of the
> caliper.
>
>
>
> Also check the pad to make sure it?s annulus is not larger than the TR3
> rotor. You don?t want overhang or under hang of friction material. Also you
> want the friction to cover the rotor with very little unused swept area of
> rotor ID or OD. To much unused iron can be a problem also.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:23 PM -0400, "John H. Hasty" <jhasty at mhc-law.com>
> wrote:
>
> What is the effect of using TR6 calipers designed for use on 10.75 rotors
> on TR3 11? rotors ?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Ashley Page via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> As Glenn pointed out ID to OD taper happens with some pads.
>
> Can also be a sign of loose wheel bearings.
>
>
>
> But probably as he describes due to higher rubbing speed on OD.
>
>
>
> You can easily taper cut the pads with a 4? diamond masonry blade from
> just about any hardware or Lowe?s. You can do it with any number of ways
> even a hacksaw but anything but diamond will wear quickly
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 2:08 PM -0400, "timmmurphh--- via Fot" <
> fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* timmmurphh at gmail.com <timmmurphh at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:36 AM
> *To:* 'DAVE HOGYE' <dlhogye at comcast.net>
> *Subject:* RE: [Fot] brake pad and rotor discovery and update
>
>
>
> Thanks for this report.  We have had some issues with the Carbotech pads
> on our TR4 at Blackhawk and the Kcup.  We use the CT2-XP10 compound.  I
> will check our pad to caliper slot clearance.  Does anyone know offhand of
> the slot on the 16P calipers on our TR4 is the same as the TR3 at 3.095??
>
>
>
> Tim Murphy
>
> #317 TR4
>
>
>
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *DAVE HOGYE via Fot
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 10, 2018 3:22 PM
> *To:* Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Fot] brake pad and rotor discovery and update
>
>
>
> Hello Friends,
>
> I have been finding out quite a bit about the unusual and developing front
> brake pad, rotor and caliper issues that I have discovered on my TR3.
>
>
>
> What I found was that the Carbotech CT-57 pads were causing the problem.
>
>
>
> The supporting or backing plates of the pads had been ground down at
> Carbotech, far under the normal plate width that I measured in 4 other
> production pads that I have on hand.  Besides that, they were not ground
> down squarely.
>
>
>
> This allowed the piston to take tremendous side load under braking causing
> the uneven and diagonal wear pattern in the pads.  This also caused the
> rotor to contact the caliper as the pads took on heavy uneven wear.
>
>
>
> The slot in the TR6 caliper is 3.095" and the four non-Carbotech pads sets
> have a plate width of no less than 3.082".  The Carbotech plates have an
> out of square measurement of 3.030-3.050".  That's as much as .065"
> clearance in the caliper slot.
>
> The plates have too much clearance.  I found that a maximum of .010"
> backing plate to caliper slot clearance is more normal.  One set of pads
> have only .005" clearance.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, the corners of the Carbotech plates and pads were ground down
> far enough that the lower end of the pads hardly made contact with the
> caliper slot allowing more stress on the caliper piston.
>
>
>
> I have been going back and forth with Carbotech on this matter and I will
> be sending back the badly worn set along with a brand set that have the
> same production issues.  I bought the two sets at the same time last
> August.
>
>
>
> What I found is that any backing plates that show evidence of sanding or
> grinding marks should be measured for proper clearance, but that really,
> there should be no sanding or grinding marks...ever.
>
>
>
> All of the other pads I have show no evidence of sanding or grinding
> marks.  The previously shaped friction pads are cleanly attached to the
> backing plates and the backing plate is revealed around the friction
> material.  Only the backing plate makes contact with the caliper slot.
>
>
>
> It looks like I have to find another race pad supplier.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Dave H.
>
> 831-234-4928
>
>
>
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