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Re: [TR] 2" SU's vs Triple 1/34"??

To: Dave1massey@cs.com, triumphs@autox.team.net, emanteno@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [TR] 2" SU's vs Triple 1/34"??
From: spamiam@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:44:35 +0000
>Now add a third carburettor.  All we have done is shifted on cylinder from 
>each >carburettor to another one.  Now instead of seeing three intake pulses 
>per two >revolutions, each carb will see only two.  Instead of flowing for 540 
>(crank) degrees >per every 720 for a 75% duty cycle, the carbs will now see 
>only two pulses for 360 >>(crank) degrees per two revolutions for a 50% duty 
>cycle.
>
>Gas flow through the jet is a function of instantaneous flow rates but piston 
>location >is a function of average air flow so changing duty cycle from 75% to 
>50% changes >everything. 

You make a good point about the flow being cyclical rather than constant.  I 
suppose the carbs need to be sized to accomodate the peak air flow rather than 
the average.  Of course, the dampers on the carb pistons prevent peak air flow 
demand from being achieved.

You don't say how a 50% duty cycle will help or hinder performance of a carb 
compared to a 75% duty.

Just at first glance, I am not able to make a seat-of-the pants guess (and 
maybe a wrong one, too) as to what effect the duty cycle will have.

What do you see as the net real-world effect?

I briefly communicated with Richard Good about his triple set-up.  He 
recommends that 3 stock carbs be used.  I thought that he may have worked out a 
new spring/needle combo for this new configuration, but he did not.  I was not 
sure how much effort he put into that side of the covnersion.  I think that 
each individual owner with their individual (probably non-stock) engine needs 
to test the their own complete system.

That being said, one friend of mine, a lister here, simply used the stock ZS 
carbs as recommended by Good, and loves the power and smoothness.  It sure 
sounds as if the carbs are about "right" for his suped-up engine.  So Richard 
Good seems to have been right about his recommendations.  Or at least not 
"wrong"!!!

This also supports my somewhat flawed conclusion that the springs as sized to 
the carbs by the manufacturer are pretty close to optimal as far as air flow 
speed across the bridge and atomization..  I >>am<< surprised that the needles 
that were good for a 2 carb setup on a stock engine were anywhere close for a 3 
carb setup on a non-stock engine.

For instance, on my TR7,  I put UK-version TR7 carbs on my US version engine 
(less compression than the UK) with TR4A oval carbs, and I had to change needle 
profiles.  They were very lean at maximum flow and caused a misfire!  I 
reprofiled them by hand and they seem fine now, even with K&N filters which 
flow better.  These changes were, IMHO, even less drastic than the triple carb 
conversion, and I clearly needed different needles!  I would have expected the 
triple conversion to absolutely require new needles.  Well, that just goes to 
show what I know!

-Tony


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