Noah,
I am not an expert on TR4's or values, however this sounds like a very
"original"
TR4. I owned a 64 TR4 back in the mid 70's and it had rust everywhere before I
reconditioned it. If any Triumph has no rust, it must have been stored as you
were told. 14K does sound a bit high but what is fair market value? I am not
sure. This car does have great potential as a show car if restored, since it is
very original. What would it be worth then, better wait for the 4 experts to
answer.
It does sound like a serious offer is warranted though. I would go as low as you
dare. What can the dealer say but no.
If you do get this car, please dont drive in winter. The salt and grit will rust
that body and frame fast.
Your test results reveal that the car, engine etc. are in sound condition. The
oil leak could be an old dry gasket or a seal that had gotten hard.
As far as maintenance; since you are not a mechanic, or have the time, you will
be paying a premium price for maintenance. Your parts will be at dealer cost,
not
yours and the time will be anywhere from 50 - 70 $ an hour on a classic. As far
as what you would be looking forward too is anyone's guess. The car is almost 40
years old.
Personally I believe that half the fun of owning a TR is performing whatever
maintenance is required. It certainly has been a learning experience since I got
my first TR3A back in 1968.
Good luck, but wait for others to answer.
Bob Labuz
1958 TR3A
1974 T140V
"Freeman, Noah" wrote:
> Hello triumph vehicle consultants-
>
> I just spent yesterday looking at a super condition TR4 as my first (though
> Im sure not last) triumph acquisition- Ill put some details through here in
> the note, and I hope you can come in with suggestions on value and bidding
> strategy...
>
> My goal- I want a nice, drivable TR4 type (4, 4a, 250) for commuting, etc,
> that will not cost crazy amounts to keep up. I personally am not a mechanic
> type, nor does my lifestyle allow me to start doing this now, so repairs,
> rather than being a fun activity, would simply be expensive for me. You
> guys have been super helpful up to this point, and I was hoping for some
> more assistance on how to deal with pricing and bidding for this car...
>
> I live in Boston, and there are not a lot of TR4s for sale up in this area-
> this car is at a DEALER, and while I am hesitant about dealing with a
> dealer, there are very few other cars available around here...I certainly
> could fly to CA to look at cars and hvae them shipped, but that is an
> entirely highre level of activity/expense.
>
> The car-
> British Racing Green TR4, i think 1964, no overdrive. (serial number I wrote
> down somewhere else...if its important to value I can supply it). Car
> changed hands in 65 to original owner, then in 67 to its second owner.
> (Bill of sale exists) It was stored from 69 to 99 in a dry garage, totally
> un-driven, covered. It was then sold in need of a rebuild to a lawyer in CT
> (via this same dealer). The lawyer had the dealership/shop "New England
> Classic Cars" do all the rebuild work, and the 1999 rebuild is as follows.
> It shows 70K on the odometor, 2K of which comes post the rebuild (the dealer
> says)
>
> Restored items
> -New rings, but no rebuild on rest of motor
> -New double in line mufflered exhaust
> -Rebuilt brake system
> -New carpets
> -New BRG paint job everywhere but inside hood
> -new 3 point seat belt system
>
> Aftermarket items
> -Electronic solid state ignition/distributor system
> -new air horn
> -Electric fan on radiator
> -stereo
> -Electronics shutoff (like on a race car, but mounted in passenger foot well
> as a security option)
> -cigarrette lighter
> -New top
> -Luggage rack
>
> Orignal items (completely original since day one)-
> -Original Tanneu (sp?), great condition
> -Original leather seats, good condition
> -original dash, wheel (wood dash is in great shape, vinyl cover above wood
> dash has one crack)
> -Electronics
>
> The examination-
> The car is 100% rust free. I spent an hour with a flashlight all over.
> Wheel wells, fenders, trunk, floors, doors. etc are in perfect condition.
> The car's details are all original and perfect- gauges, interior, (even
> orginal headlight bulbs), lucas electronics. Original wires.
> The paint looks great, but was done with masking of chrome rather than
> removal.
> The under-hood is great, but not show quality- it is clean, but not shiny,
> anodized, refinished. The paint under the hood does not perfectly match the
> rest (very subtle difference)
> Chrome looks 95% great- a little bit of bubbling, etc but very good.
> Car sits level, all suspension/shocks work great
> Car for two hours after test drive dripped 4 drips of oil (may hvae been
> from me removing the dipstick though)
> -Overall, car looks like it is in a new car showroom rather than used
> condition. The visual impression is stunning.
>
> Mechanicals-
> Compression is 150, 150, 155, 155 across the four cylinders
> Spark plugs are a tea/coffee color
> Voltage looks great. Didnt confirm it with a seperate guage
> Oil pressure is 55 at idle (cold) rises to 60 at idle (warm) and to 80 at
> high RPM. Didnt confirm it with a seperate guage
> Steering is tight, braking is good.
> All lights, etc. work perfectly.
>
> Test drive-
> Car started on first crank, needed some fiddling with the choke (it was 50
> deg F outside). I got to ride, but not to drive (not very good at driving
> stick yet). Acceleration was super, revved clean to redlines, shifting was
> quick and sure. Braking, hard turning all felt great. Best of all, it was
> QUIET. No rattles, knocks, clattering, or anything. Car restarted when
> warm, and shut off with no dieseling.
>
> My questions-
> --I did 99% of the tests that the VTR website suggested- I couldnt do
> independent voltage and oil pressure checks lacking those guages- should I
> bring in an independent mechanic to do more tests? What would he do that I
> did not do? The dealer will let someone come to him to do tests, but wont
> let the car go to someone else (he claims for liability reasons). Is this
> sketchy, or normal?
>
> --The dealer is asking $14K for this car. While this does seem to be a
> super condition triumph, this also seems like much more than I see others
> selling for. Is this a totally unreasonable price? If so, what owuld be
> reasonable?
>
> --I am willing to pay ~$1.5K more for this car than for a nice condition car
> in, say, CA, because it would cost me $800 to ship it, and this car has a
> few aftermarket options (fan, electronic ignition, luggage rack, tanneu)
> that I owuld get anyway, and would probably cost ~$600 to install. There
> are not a ton of TR4s available in New Engaldn to compare this to.
>
> --I would like to make a bid for this car, but I dont want to pay too much
> more than resale value. What should my first bid be if his offer is $14K?
> Is $12K too mcuh to bid (15% below offer)? Is it improper to make a first
> bid at $10K (which might be closer to the "fair resale value" of the car
> (30% below offer)?
>
> Thank you (in advance) so much for your help! Im really eager to hear more
> experienced people's opinions on this car...
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Noah (sorry for long trailer)
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