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Re: Alternator Conversions.. A Dan Masters Response

To: jerryvv@worldnet.att.net, triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Alternator Conversions.. A Dan Masters Response
From: Z27407@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:40:13 EDT
In a message dated 4/22/00 7:26:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jerryvv@worldnet.att.net writes:

> st
>  
>  I would like to submit my experiences with an Alternator conversion on a 
TR4
>  A. The first time I wired the conversion I followed the "modified Dan
>  Masters instructions" and the ignition warning light did not work properly
>  at all. I followed these instructions because it made more sense to me that
>  the heavy Brown/yellow wire should connect to the "Bat" post on the
>  alternator. I was wrong. Connect it just as Dan says and things work. I
>  replaced the thin Brown/green wire with a heaver gauge wire from the "Bat"
>  post to the regulator and solved the thin wire problem. I also wrote to Dan
>  for clarification but never got a response so maybe if he would ring in on
>  all of this the mystery can get solved if indeed there is one.
>  Jerry Van Vl

With all the problems that we had this weekend with the alternator conversion 
for a TR4a, it ended up being the connector that was purchased from the parts 
store, I also contacted Dan Masters and he replied promptly.. 

 Here is his response..

In a message dated 4/21/2000 3:46:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Z27407 writes:

> 
>  Hello Dan..
>  
>  Are the instructions at VTR for this procedure that you have posted 
correct??

Paul,

Yes, and no. Yes, in that the instruction work as written. No, in that two of 
the wires should be swapped from an increased capacity standpoint.

These instructions have been used by several people, with no problems. 
However, I have revised them to change the wiring as stated above, but, for 
some reason, VTR has not posted my corrections yet (I sent them to VTR over 
18 months ago). I have attached the corrected version below.

Nevertheless, your alternator should work just fine with the current 
instructions.
>  
>  I have followed them to the point and the alternator will not function 
> properly..

What type of problems are you experiencing?  I'll be happy to help you 
resolve the problems if you'll describe your symptoms.  In the meantime, I'll 
draw up a wiring diagram for you and send it to you later today or tomorrow.

Dan
****************************************************************************
ELECTRICAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR REPLACING THE GENERATOR WITH A GM ALTERNATOR IN A 
TR4A

METHOD ONE (Utilizing existing wiring):
-----------------------------
AT THE CONTROL BOX:

Look for the following wires:

Black:      Remove and discard.
---------------------------------------------
Smaller Brown/Yellow:
Brown/Green:                   Disconnect and tie together, with an insulated 
connector.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larger Brown/Yellow:
Brown/White:
Brown/Blue (2):         Using a large, solder type butt connector, connect 
all 4 of these wires together, and insulate with heat shrink tubing. Be aware 
- this connection carries ALL of the current for the car, so it must be a 
good connection. You do not want a high resistance here. You may have to go 
to an electrical supply house for this type connector, rather than an auto 
supply store, to get one large enough to hold all 4 wires. Run two wires into 
one end of the connector, and the other two into the other end.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Remove the control box and, please, save for a friend who is a purist!

AT THE OLD GENERATOR:

You will find two wires, Brown/Green and Brown/Yellow. Disconnect them from 
the generator and leave in place. Remove and save the generator.

AT THE NEW ALTERNATOR:

On the side of the case, you will find two spade lugs recessed into the body. 
The lugs are identified on the body of the alternator as 1 & 2. You will need 
a plug (connector) for these. These plugs are readily available at an auto 
supply store, usually in a package hanging on the pegboard display rack in 
the electrical section, and usually identified as an alternator extension 
connector, or something similar. If not, the counter man will know what you 
are looking for. There will be two short wires already connected to the plug. 

On the back of the case, you will find an insulated screw terminal. 

Connect the Brown/Green wire to the plug wire going to the # 1 terminal, 
using a butt connector, or splice, solder, and insulate with heat shrink 
tubing. The plug is keyed, and will only go in one way. Connect the other 
lead from the plug (#2) to the screw terminal on the back of the alternator 
case, along with the larger Brown/Yellow lead from the original harness, 
using ring terminals. Both the larger Brown/Yellow wire and the wire from 
terminal #2 connect to the screw terminal.

Disconnect the ground lead from the battery before proceeding with any 
electrical work, and, 
of course, follow all the rules of proper wiring practices. I recomend using 
solder connections, and covering them with heat shrink tubing, but crimp type 
connectors will work quite well also. You will need butt connectors for 
attaching to the plug wires, and a large ring connector for the screw 
terminal. If you would prefer not to have splices, you can remove the 
terminals, and the wire, from the plug. Using new terminals of the proper 
type, connect directly to the existing wires, and insert the terminals into 
the plug. New terminals can be purchased from British Wiring, (20449 Ithaca, 
Olympia Fields, IL 60461, 708-481-9050) and The Wire Works (167 Keystone 
Road, Chester, PA 19013, 800-292-1940), among others.
 
You are finished!

There are two things, however, to be aware of:

1) Triumph did funny things when they built these cars, so your car might not 
match the configuration above, and it may well have been modified by a 
previous owner.

2) You now have an alternator capable of more than twice the output of your 
old generator, but the wiring capacity has not changed. If you add heavy 
loads, driving lights, high power stereo, etc, you can exceed the capacity of 
the wires. Also, If you let the battery discharge completely, the alternator 
can possibly recharge with enough current to overload the wires. If your 
battery is completely discharged, recharge it with a charger rather than push 
starting the car and letting the alternator recharge it. If you must do this, 
keep a close watch on the ammeter, checking for overcharging. Under all other 
usages, the wiring should not present a problem. The main advantage of the 
higher output is the ability to provide a higher charge rate at low RPM and 
idle. The standard loads on the TR4A does not require a higher charge current 
at normal engine speeds, so the alternator will not be called on to provide 
enough current to overload the wires.

METHOD TWO (Upgraded wiring):

If you wish to upgrade the wiring to take advantage of the higher output, it 
is really quite simple.

--------------------------------------------
AS ABOVE, EXCEPT:

Cut off both ends of the larger Brown/Yellow wire - at the old generator and 
at the control box - as close to the wire harness wrapping as possible (or, 
unwrap the harness, and remove the wire all-together).Connect the two 
Brown/Blue and the Brown /White wires together at the control box.

Instead of connecting the larger Brown/Yellow wire to the new alternator, add 
a new wire of at least 10 Ga (8 Ga preferred). Connect one end to the screw 
terminal at the alternator, and the other end to the terminal on the starter 
solenoid where the main cable from the battery and a Brown wire are now 
connected. Leave the existing wires at the solenoid connected. Very carefully 
route this new wire alongside the existing wiring harness, and use cable ties 
liberally for support.

Now, the alternator can provide full charging current without worrying about 
burning up the wiring. 

There is one downside to this approach: The charge indicating light will work 
as before, but the ammeter will only read discharge. It will register the 
current being drawn by the various loads on the car, but will not indicate if 
the alternator is charging. 

If you wish to add extra loads, such as a high power sound system, connect 
them directly to the battery, properly fused, of course. Loads connected 
directly to the battery will not be indicated on the ammeter.

OPTIONS:
--------------------------
There are several other ways to do the replacement. For example, you may wish 
to use a larger range ammeter, or you may wish to replace the ammeter with a 
voltmeter. If so, contact me with your preferences, and I will try to provide 
the appropriate instructions.

You may also choose to use a different alternator, rather than the GM unit. 
If so, it will be wired very similarly to the above, only the connections at 
the alternator itself will be different.

Dan Masters,
DANMAS@aol.com                                      7/6/98





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