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RE: Re : Heated Seats ???

To: "'David Moag'" <moag@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RE: Re : Heated Seats ???
From: Randall Young <randallyoung@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:04:23 -0800
Cc: "Triumphs (E-mail)" <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Organization: Navcom Technology, Inc
David :

I went to the local "self-service" junk yard and got the alternator, wiring 
harness back past the regulator, and regulator.  I think it was from a 
'70-ish Mercury Marquis, but the alternators themselves appear to be 
mechanically identical from early '60s up through mid-80s.  I picked the 
car model based only on the location of the regulator, since I wanted to 
put the new regulator on the blanking plate next to the old one.  I have a 
friend with a 84 T-bird, which appears to have the same alternator.  I 
didn't worry about electical size, on the assumption that anything that 
would run an American full size would have plenty for a LBC <g>  (I think 
Ford's smallest alternator in that time frame was rated 48 amps, which is 2 
1/2 times my generator's rating !)

For the pulley, I took my old generator pulley to a machine shop, and had 
them bore the hole to match the shaft on the alternator. (The center hole 
in the old pulley was badly worn anyway.)  I didn't use a key, since the 
alternator didn't have a keyway.  I think they charged me $10 (in 1982). 
 This results in the belt being a little hard to get on, as the alternator 
body is somewhat larger than the generator was.  Depending on the brand of 
belt, you may have to take the alternator loose to change belts.  (No big 
deal, just another step.  Makes it tricky to change belts with the engine 
hot, though.)  Seems to me that I originally did some modifications on the 
alternator body (with a hacksaw) to get it a little closer to the engine 
block.  Since the generator pulley was larger than the alternator pulley, 
the alternator turns a little slower, so it doesn't charge as much at idle 
as it might.  Mine will just about keep up with the halogen headlights and 
electric radiator fan at an idle.  (I was looking at another car in the 
local club the other day, and they managed to buy a new pulley with 
apparently the right width and shaft size, but a smaller diameter.  If I 
ever see Herman, I intend to ask where he got it.)

If I was doing it over today, I would probably try to buy a new pulley that 
would accept the 3/4" belt, but be closer to the original alternator pulley 
size.  When I put on the electric fan (and removed both the stock fan and 
the crankshaft extension), I was able to put some flat washers in the 
middle of the crankshaft pulley, to reduce it's effective diameter, and 
loosen the belt somewhat.  (I'm also using a cogged belt from a Cummins 
truck dealer that is very slightly shorter than the ones supplied by Moss. 
 However, I'll never have to change it again !)

For the lower mount, I removed the spacer that normally goes from the 
engine front plate to the front generator tab.  (Mine was bad, as they 
frequently are.)  The rear mounting surface of the alternator case was then 
cut off to make the pulleys line up (done by eye, with a hacksaw), with the 
alternator mounting tab entirely in front of the engine front plate.   I 
cut a piece of pipe to go inside the bracket bolted to the engine block (so 
the bolt wouldn't crush the bracket ears together), then ran a long bolt 
through the alternator pivot, the engine front plate, the piece of pipe, 
and the rear generator bracket ear.  I don't recall the bolt size, but it 
was picked to go through the generator bracket without modification.  It 
was somewhat smaller in diameter than the Ford bolt, but I've never had any 
problems with it.

I've since seen kits for sale somewhere (Warshawsky maybe ?) that have an 
adjustable lower bracket.

For the upper mount, I straightened out the bends in the original generator 
bracket (the one with the long adjustment slot), so it lined up with the 
alternator mounting tab.  The bolt runs from the rear, through the slot, 
and threads into the alternator.

Other changes :
1) The Ford alternator (at least the one I got first) seems to need more 
current through the warning light.  When I first installed it, I had to rev 
the engine to about 2000 rpm before the alternator would "kick in".  After 
checking a shop manual, I added an 8 ohm 5 watt resistor to the back of the 
red "generator light" on the dash.  The alternator uses this circuit to 
supply field current when the engine starts.  Once the alternator is 
working, it supplies it's own field current (and the bulb goes out because 
there is no longer current flowing through it).  My Chevy shop manual also 
shows the resistor, even on cars without the idiot light.  Another 
alternative would be to use a Chrysler 3-terminal regulator, but it won't 
operate the idiot light.

2) The output of the alternator is far more than the 30 amps the ammeter is 
designed to handle.  I added a shunt across the ammeter terminals, made 
from two pieces of steel "baling wire" (almost as important as duct tape 
for keeping a TR on the road !).  The idea was just to keep the ammeter 
from banging into the peg after the engine starts.  IMO, ammeters are only 
useful as relative indicators anyway (is it charging a little ?, is it 
discharging a lot ?!), so I didn't worry about calibration.

3) Wiring.  I don't recall the exact changes, but I left the original 
regulator in place, and still mostly wired.  The alternator output is 
connected into the A1 terminal, and the wire to the dash lamp is removed 
from the old regulator and connected to the new one.  The wires to the old 
generator were taped up, and left connected to the old regulator.  I wound 
up having to create a new terminal between the alternator and the old 
regulator, since the output wire wasn't long enough to reach.  This 
terminal is where new high current accessories are connected (headlight 
relay, radiator fan relay, electronic ignition, etc.), to avoid running 
high currents through the old wiring as much as possible (and also to get 
the highest voltage to the new accessories).

It sounds complicated, but I finished the installation in an afternoon, 
after getting the pulley machined and the junk yard parts.  Other than 
having to occasionally clean the contacts on the regulator, it has been 
trouble free.  (I finally bought a solid state replacement regulator last 
year.)

Let me know if I can answer any other questions.


Randall


On Tuesday, February 23, 1999 5:34 PM, David Moag [SMTP:moag@ix.netcom.com] 
wrote:
> Randall,
>
> The part that worries me the most about changing to an alternator is how 
to
> mount the thing --- and how to find one with a similar pulley size, etc. 
How
> smoothly did your Ford ones go in? Do you remember which model(s) they 
were
> for?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Randall Young [mailto:randallyoung@earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 5:21 AM
> > To: David Moag
> > Subject: Re: Re : Heated Seats ???
> >
> >
> > David :
> >
> > FWIW, I've put Ford alternators on my last 2 TR-3's, and been
> > very pleased with
> > the results.  The first one was a daily driver in winter in
> > Indiana, where it
> > gets rather chilly (and I didn't have any place to plug in a
> > charger at
> > night).  The second car had a bum generator mount when I
> > bought it and, rather
> > than mess with it, I just put on another alternator.  That
> > was over 16 years
> > ago, and the alternator is both more reliable, and easier to
> > repair than the
> > old generator.  Although my mount is somewhat hokey, it has
> > worked perfectly
> > all these years.
> >
> > Randall
> >
> 

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