RReynolds@asaspmo.belvoir.army.mil wrote:
>
> I'm in the process of researching mufflers to replace the stock version
> on my 76 TR6. My muffler has several small holes that are getting
> larger. The recent Daytona Muffler thread on the List was very helpful
> until the topic evolved into the merits of Merlin piston, General
> Electric turbine and Atlas rocket engine swaps for Triumphs. Undaunted,
> I continued my search!!!
> My UNscientific Survey and Observations follow.
> STAINLESS STEEL vs NON-STAINLESS. I always assumed stainless
> was superior because it lasted longer, though more costly. Daytona's
> web site says "stainless steel exhaust systems are too rigid and vibrate
> more than mild steel used in Daytona systems. This results in fine
> "saw-tooth" cracks in mufflers and pipes causing misalignment of pipes,
> leaks and shortened service life." As well as being more difficult to
> weld. Daytona systems use a 14 gauge mild steel with a 10 year
> warranty. I'm neither a metallurgist nor an exhaust systems specialist,
> so I'm just passing on the quote. I do know that the stainless steel
> muffler on my 83 Mercedes turbo diesel was still good when I sold it
> after 12 years and 145k miles. And the SS muffler on my 91 Nissan
> NX2000 is still fine after 102k miles. Non-stainless mufflers on my
> other cars have never lasted that long.
> PERFORMANCE. Most folks assume that an expensive "performance"
> muffler system will improve performance. The gist I get from reports
> I've read over the years (don't ask me to quote them) is that there
> will be some margin of increased performance due to less backpressure
> which enhances the engine's ability to "breathe," but that it can't be
> consistently quantified unless there has been some significant
> improvements to other parts of the drive train (e.g. higher compression,
> polished air passages, headers, etc.).
> SOUND. The most common comment people make when talking about
> muffler systems is how they sound. That, up to a point, louder is
> better, but the quality of the sound (not well defined) is what people
> are really looking for. V12 aficionados like to hear the rippy/snarly
> sound of those engines. V8ers like the burble at idle and the
> deep-chested sound of acceleration. Smaller-displacement 6s and 4s
> have a distinct, raspy, higher-pitched sound on acceleration. Most
> everyone liked to be able to hear the sound of overrun and the popping
> during deceleration.
> SUMMARY. People seem to be more likely to buy muffler systems
> for subjective reasons ("It sounds good!") than for objective reasons
> ("Improved performance" or "Better gas mileage"), though longevity of a
> muffler system seems to be somewhat important.
>
> Types and brands of mufflers:
> STOCK: Made in US? UK? Burma? China? Most owners have 'em.
> Most owners like 'em well enough. Many owners have thought about
> changing to stainless (for longevity) or other aftermarket (performance
> and/or sound). The relatively low price (about $135 for the muffler) or
> a desire to maintain stock configuration usually wins out.
> MONZA: Made in ?? Most that have them like them, though all
> agree that they are loud. Many say that two hours is a long trip with
> Monza mufflers. Of the 10 or so live people I've talked to at shows and
> the TRF party and those on the list, perhaps 3 thought they were so
> loud they would or should replace them. Two thought they sounded great.
> The remainder thought they were loud but nice, except on long trips.
> Cost: $300+ for TR6
> ANSA: Made in Italy. The one person on the list who had them
> really liked them. Another at the TRF Party said they weren't as loud
> as the Monza and since they emitted sounds at a lower frequency than the
> Monza, it was more tolerable. $300 from IFE for TR6
> DAYTONA: Made in Italy. The three people who had Daytona
> really liked them. Nice sound, but not too loud. Daytona bases their
> free flow designs on those of ABARTH, whose production stopped in the
> early '80s. Construction quality - based on their Web page and owner
> comments - appears to be high. If available, about $375 for TR6
> ************************
> I'll have to admit that the sounds a car makes does good things for me.
> Even if performance has not actually improved, it will sound like it
> has. I like to let folks hear me coming. If I didn't want to stand
> out from the crowd, I wouldn't own an LBC. I also expect an expensive
> muffler to last a long time. Of the people who expressed an opinion
> about their mufflers, the most enthusiastic seemed to be the Daytona
> owners and that's the one I think I'd like to buy. The problem is that
> the Daytona distributor, Italy's Famous Exhausts, only has the ANSA in
> stock now and only two or three sets of those. I exchanged several
> e-mails with John Tzortzoudakis (Pronounced "Sore-Sue-Dah-Kiss), Owner
> of Italy's Famous Exhaust. Some excerpts of that exchange follow:
> > >
> Q> . Does Daytona make an ABARTH-style muffler for the TR6?
> A. NO WE ONLY HAVE NOS ANSA.
>
> Q. What > is the delivery time and freight cost to the DC area?
>
> A. ABOUT 2-3 WEEKS TO DC BY UPS AT $25-33
> > >
> Q> . What are the differences between ANSA and Daytona in terms
> of:
> > design?
> SIMILAR
>
> Quality?
> VERY DIFFERENT: STEEL IS TOO HIGH A CARBON IN ANSA SYSTEMS AND
> WELD CAN'T STICK AS WELL, THICKNESS IS 16 GAUGE INSEAD OF DAYTONA AT 14.
>
> Performance?
> SIMILAR
>
> Sound?
> ANSA MUCH LOUDER DUE TO THIN PIPE AND MUFFLER
> CAN/CARTRIDGE/CONSTRUCTION,
>
> Cost?
> WE SELL OLD STOCK ANSA AT 30-40% LESS THAN DAYTONA
> >
> Q> . Does ANSA carry the same 10 year guarantee that Daytona
> offers?
> A. NO ONLY DAYTONA SYSTEMS HAVE THE GUARANTEE. ANSA IS 1 YEAR.
> >
> > Q. Does ANSA use the stock TR6 clamps and hangers?
> A. YES
>
> Q. Is there any chance DAYTONA might manufacture TR6 exhaust
> systems?>
> A. IT > LOOKS LIKE WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY TR6 SYSTEMS FOR THE NEXT
> FEW MONTHS. I WILL BE WORKING WITH THE MANUFACTURER MORE SERIOUSLY
> ABOUT PRODUCING MORE IF I GET MORE DEMAND FOR TR6 SYSTEMS. IF YOU CAN
> GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK ON THIS ISSUE OF DEMAND OR ANY OF YOUR FELLOW TR6
> BUDDIES/CLUBS CAN SHOW A DEMAND, I CAN GET DAYTONA SYSTEMS WITHIN 3-4
> MONTHS. IN THE MEANTIME THE ANSA SYSTEM IS A GOOD BUY AT THE $150 PER
> SIDE PRICE.
> >
>
> Are there enough listers out there who need new muffler systems and are
> interested enough in the Daytona to convince IFE to convince Daytona to
> manufacture a bunch? If so, please e-mail John and let him know.
> Except that I believe the Daytona system is the one I'd like to buy, I
> have no financial interest or incentive in this matter.
>
> Italy's Famous Exhaust (IFE) Web page: http://www.famousexhaust.com/
> John Tzortzoudakis' e-mail address: famous@earthlink.net
>
> Rob Reynolds
> 76 TR6
> CF58073UO
> Reston, VA
> "You can't die from carbon monoxide poisoning if you keep the top down
> and the speed up!!!"
For what its worth. In 1980 I purchased a muffler installed from Midas
Mufflers in Santa Barbara, CA for around $95.00 US. Of course the price
will be higher now. It is the standard 2 pipe TR muffler by a major
manufacturer. Exhaust tone identical to the original. It was the best buy
I ever made on mufflers. In the interim I have had the original replaced
three times as the old one wore out, usually due to the internal baffles
breaking loose and causing a nerve jaring high frequency rattle. Those 6
cylinders really blow a volume through the muffler. The last replacement
was in April of this year. I paid nothing for the replacements and
received fast courteous service with no hassles each time. THis last time
the rest of the exhaust system looked to be ready to go so I had the
Midas shop here in Sant Rosa replace it. I bought and supplied the
manifold down pipe and Midas custom built and installed the rest for
a total cost of around $40.00 for the down pipe and $80.00 for
fabrication of the intermediate pipes and installation. I used to buy and
install mufflers myself but I'm here to tell you that this Midas deal is
the best around. Their warrantee is such that if they are ever unable to
obtain a muffler they installed they will give you the money for it.
Availablity hasn't been a problem so far so I literally spent nothing for
16 years for replacement mufflers. If you intend to hold on to your TR
for a number of years I highly recommend this route.
Deano
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