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Re: BAAAAD GAAAAS

To: Peter Mchugh <Peter.Mchugh@faa.dot.gov>
Subject: Re: BAAAAD GAAAAS
From: Vic Whitmore <vicwhit@octonline.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:55:02 -0400
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@Autox.Team.Net>
References: <06E6433F1A00A018*/c=US/admd=ATTmail/prmd=gov+dot/o=faa/s=Mchugh/g=Peter/@MHS>
Peter Mchugh wrote:
> 
>      Thanks for your reply....
> 
>      It "may" not be true that dyes "wouldn't affect performance" or that
>      they are a petroleum distillate"..
> 
>      One of the great debates in aviation today is exactly "How much dye is
>      acceptable in jet fuel?" and exhaustive tests are being conducted.
>      The current specification for jet fuel requires that the fuel
>      introduced into an airplane be "water white" or in our venacular,
>      "clear".  The dyes are thought to cause problems by clogging filters,
>      building deposits on turbine blades, etc.  I even found one report
>      within the marine community of a nuclear submarine, which was
>      operating on its standby power (diesel) during maintenance on the
>      reactor having an engine failure attributed to clogged fuel
>      filters...a story which didn't leave me with warm fuzzies....
> 
>      There is much unknown about the issue...but for me...clear is better,
>      both in skys and fuel for my lbc!!!!
> 
>      Cheers!
> 
>      PMcQ
> 
> ______________________________ Reply Separator 
>_________________________________
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: BAAAAD GAAAAS
> Author:  jruwaldt@indiana.edu at Internet
> Date:    8/12/97 10:40 PM
> 
> Peter,
>      I wasn't aware that so many different colors were added to gas..
> The most I'd heard of was yellow for automotive, blue for aviation.  It
> isn't surprising, though, that the dyes wouldn't affect the performance,
> because, undoubtedly, the percentage of the dye in the gas would be so
> small.  It would probably also be a petroleum distillate anyway..
> Jim Ruwaldt
> '72 TR6 CC79338U(being restored)
> Bloomington, IN
> 
> 
> On 12 Aug 1997, Peter Mchugh wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >      Several years ago my offcie did an indepth analysis of the use of dyes
> >      in aviation fuels...as a result of concern about dyes leaching into
> >      aviation gasoline and jet fuels.  The following is extracted from that
> >      work....
> >
> >      Both the IRS and EPA require use of dyes in fuels...today they require
> >      that all untaxed (highway use taxes) diesel/kerosene (IRS) and fuels
> >      which do not meet emissions requirements (EPA) be injected with red
> >      dye...untaxed fuels are used on farms and as home heating oil...and
> >      these fuels work fine in commercial trucks on the highways...and cost
> >      much less than half of the taxed fuel.  A huge mafia (believe it or
> >      not?) organization is involved in taking advantage of this gap between
> >      the taxed and untaxed price...and the IRS and lawenforcement agencies
> >      have exacted huge penalties for violations....the dye in untaxed fules
> >      helps to catch the scoflaws, and returns significant millions of
> >      dollars to the treasury..
> >
> >      For the EPA, the dye permits enforcement of environmental regulations
> >      since some high emissions fules must continue to be available for
> >      selected purposes.  There are few exceptions to the legislation that
> >      is the basis for the dye use, one of which is for aviation fuels..
> >
> >      Aviation gasoline (avgas) once was distributed in several octane
> >      ranges and was color coded to permit pilots to check that they (their
> >      airplanes) were being supplied the proper fuel...red avgas was 80/87
> >      octane, 100/130 is green, and 115/145 octane was purple...(the first
> >      two still exist, but I am not aware of there being any remaining
> >      115/145 <military high test, so to speak>.
> >
> >      Petroleum manufacturer/refiners have over the years added dyes to fuel
> >      as marketing ploys...witness the black dye use for Texaco Silver, and
> >      the argument that "clear" Amoco is better for engines than other, less
> >      "pure" fuels, etc.  None of the dyes in the gasoline makes any
> >      significant difference in terms of performance...and long term, dyes
> >      aren't really good for engines at all..
> >
> >      Gas does age...and it turns to lacquer...which tho a combustable isn't
> >      great for carbs and filters and deposits in engines, etc.  I'm not
> >      sure that old "baad gaas" can actually be detected by the color, tho
> >      the smell of old gas is a dead give-away...and the residuals in a tank
> >      are pretty obvious, assuming one can see into the tank..
> >
> >      I guess my point is, the presence of color may or may not be an
> >      indication of age...particularly if dyes are present..
> >
> >      Cheers!
> >
> >      PMcQ
> >
> >      76 Spitfire
> >      73 TR-6
> >      72 GT-6
> >      69 GT-6+
> >      47 TR 1800 Roadster
> >
> >
> > ______________________________ Reply Separator
>  _________________________________
> > Subject: Re: BAAAAD GAAAAS
> > Author:  van@nucmar.physics.fsu.edu at Internet
> > Date:    8/12/97 1:12 PM
> >
> >
> > Scions,
> >      Did not read all of this thread, but did catch the comment on new
> > fuel formulations and whether or not they turn to varnish by C. Pugh.  As
> > far as I have been informed there is still a storgage limit to gasoline
> > and it is a great concern to boaters who store their crafts for long
> > periods... "hmmm, two years ago this motor started fine" is a comment
> > heard on the dock many a spring.  no sig file, Van
> >
Boy, I just couldn't wait for my chance to for 2 cents worth. Those
clogged deisel filters were more likely due to fungus growth, believe it
or not. This is a common problem in the marine environment and additives
are available to curb the growth.

And yes, I too have experienced BAAAD GAAAS due to long storage.

Vic Whitmore
76 Spitfire
Thornhill, Ontario

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