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Theo, interesting points you make. And I have not heard Megasquirt is a =
long while! Why not consider a Raspberry Pi 3 B+ ? Certainly enough =
brainpower. An arduino might work also and it could handle it as well. =
While I was thinking of a carb setup type of FI, a SEFI might be just as =
good if implemented correctly. Or even a large throttle bore with direct =
injection. Think I will look around and see if anyone has made a DIY EFI =
system using any of this stuff.=20
Thanks for reminding me=E2=80=A6=20
=20
Mayf
TWFS
=20
=20
From: Theo Smit <tsmit@shaw.ca>=20
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 7:28 PM
To: Will Seay <Tigers@embarqmail.com>
Cc: Larry Mayfield <drmayf@mayfco.com>; tigers <TIGERS@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger eplacement carb and alternator Questions
=20
Will and Mayf,
I ran my Tiger with a BossEFI 4-barrel throttle body injection system =
for about six or seven years. This is the system that got acquired (or =
at least rebranded and marketed) by Professional Products.
The version I had, still had the ECU separately mounted in the passenger =
compartment; later versions had the electronics all integrated in the =
throttle body assembly. This simplifies the wiring but subjects the =
electronics to the under-hood heat, which is maybe not a great idea.
When I bought my crate motor, it came with a carb and so far I have not =
put the BossEFI back on yet. The programming interface for the BossEFI =
system was ... not great. It came with a number of pre-built maps, but =
it was not easy to tweak in a logical way, and especially its =
integration of air/fuel ratio feedback and timing control was just =
weird. The car ran fine at WOT but the part throttle operation was not =
easy to get right. This is partially because the Tiger will run all day =
at really small throttle openings, and so you're always tuning just a =
hair off the idle settings. I'm not sure if a throttle body that had the =
injectors below the throttle plates would be better in that regard.
=20
If / when I get time to go back to playing with that setup again, I may =
look at using a third party EFI controller (such as Megasquirt, if they =
are still making stuff that can be adapted to any generic injector), =
rather than going back to 2003 era user interface and controls.
=20
To set the car up for the EFI system, I took many of the same steps that =
Will did. I plumbed a 3/8 inch feed and return line from the back of the =
car to the firewall and mounted a regulator on the firewall. I initially =
used a high volume canister filter as a sort of surge can, but currently =
I have the (stock) feed from the tank running about 12 inches forward, =
to a low pressure pre-filter. Then the return line is teed in, and we go =
to the fuel pump and then the high-pressure post filter. Those three =
pieces are all mounted under the trunk, behind the Alpine spare tire =
well.
=20
I'm running a Denso 70 amp alternator that is small enough to tuck ahead =
of the right cylinder head, still preserving the stock fan belt line. I =
also have a Plex wideband O2 sensor mounted in the right header =
collector.
=20
To convert back to the carburetor, I just swapped the 45 PSI regulator =
out for one that would not flood the Holley carb's needle/seat. The =
(high pressure) fuel pump just ends up circulating the fuel through the =
return line, if there is any excess volume.
Cheers,
Theo
=20
=20
_____ =20
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 3:38:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger eplacement carb and alternator Questions
=20
Mayf,
I got the EFI bug some time ago when I saw a series of Hagerty Youtube =
videos in which a Fairlane (5-bolt) 289 was rebuilt to a 289 HiPO-ish =
state and then put it in Brad Phillips Tiger. The plan was to do the =
engine swap and get the engine going with a Holley 4BBL setup and then =
switch the 4BBL for a Holley Sniper EFI throttle-body unit. Brad got =
his Tiger going with the 4BBL setup but, to my knowledge, never did the =
Sniper install. Brad's engine swap was recorded in a series of 12 =
Youtube videos. Here are some links:
=20
Here's the first episode of Brad Phillips 289 engine swap: =
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCzWYRPH24Bw =
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCzWYRPH24Bw&list=3DWL&index=3D2&t=3D26=
s> &list=3DWL&index=3D2&t=3D26s
Here's the Hagerty time-lapse video of the engine rebuild: =
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtVtrnxx3rTE =
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtVtrnxx3rTE&t=3D0s> &t=3D0s
=20
There is a Youtube video of a dyno test of the engine with and without =
EFI. So far I haven't found a link to it.
=20
I have been making plans to make my car "EFI-ready". That is, I want to =
have a plan for each aspect of the conversion. Current plan is to =
replace the OEM fuel pump with the high pressure pump and to house pump =
and pre and post filters in the same area as previously housed the OEM =
pump. I have made up a heat shield for the right-side muffler to keep =
from roasting the pump. Fuel return line will go into the top of the =
right fuel tank. I can provide pictures of the return line fittings if =
you are interested. I will be doing my own harness. The Holley harness =
is bass ackwards for a Tiger, assuming battery up front. Fuel relay and =
fuses for fuel pump and EFI will be located with the pump. Anticipating =
that the fuel pump and injectors will want to suck more current than the =
OEM generator can provide, I have done an alternator conversion. I =
already have a wide band O2 sensor installed for a PLX O2 readout so the =
O2 sensor is already there. Control of distributor advance is optional =
with the Sniper so I don't plan to do opt for that initially. Someday I =
would like to add it though. Should improve driveability and maybe =
performance.
=20
Like I said, I want to make the car "EFI-ready" . Don't know if I will =
actually do the conversion, but I want to at least have it thought out =
so that I can get there from here if I decide to.
=20
Will - 382001570=20
=20
=20
On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 9:46 AM Larry Mayfield via Tigers =
I have owned my Tiger since Jan 1967, bought it used. Has been sitting =
quietly now for quite a number of years. And I want to drive it a bit =
more now. But carbs are so old fashioned, lol. So, seeking information =
from the groups experiences, those owners who have replaced the carb =
with an electronic injected version: either 2 bbl or f bbl versions. If =
2 bbl then I would just use the cast iron intake manifold. If 4 bbl I =
need to know which is best for a bone stock 260 cid which so far in my =
ownership has never been apart. I tend to lean toward a 4 bbl version =
as I have a 5 bolt 289 with some performance capability and I would need =
to buy a manifold for that. I also have my 260 LSR motor which has the =
full treatment and is a real race motor. So, seeking real world =
experience on what and which brands are most user friendly while putting =
out power for driving around, having some fun (again). =20
=20
Larry, mayf, drmayf etc
=20
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers@embarqmail.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tsmit@shaw.ca
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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Theo, interesting points you =
make. And I have not heard =C2=A0Megasquirt is a long while! Why not =
consider a Raspberry Pi 3 B+ ? Certainly enough brainpower. An arduino =
might =C2=A0work also and it could handle it as well. While I was =
thinking of a carb setup type of FI, a SEFI might be just as good if =
implemented correctly. Or even a large throttle bore with direct =
injection. Think I will look around and see if anyone has made a DIY EFI =
system using any of this stuff. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for reminding me=E2=80=A6 <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Mayf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>TWFS<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Theo Smit =
<tsmit@shaw.ca> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 16, 2021 7:28 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Will Seay <Tigers@embarqmail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> =
Larry Mayfield <drmayf@mayfco.com>; tigers =
<TIGERS@autox.team.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Tiger =
eplacement carb and alternator Questions<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Wil=
l and Mayf,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
ran my Tiger with a BossEFI 4-barrel throttle body injection system for =
about six or seven years. This is the system that got acquired (or at =
least rebranded and marketed) by Professional =
Products.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
version I had, still had the ECU separately mounted in the passenger =
compartment; later versions had the electronics all integrated in the =
throttle body assembly. This simplifies the wiring but subjects the =
electronics to the under-hood heat, which is maybe not a great =
idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Whe=
n I bought my crate motor, it came with a carb and so far I have not put =
the BossEFI back on yet. The programming interface for the BossEFI =
system was ... not great. It came with a number of pre-built maps, but =
it was not easy to tweak in a logical way, and especially its =
integration of air/fuel ratio feedback and timing control was just =
weird. The car ran fine at WOT but the part throttle operation was not =
easy to get right. This is partially because the Tiger will run all day =
at really small throttle openings, and so you're always tuning just a =
hair off the idle settings. I'm not sure if a throttle body that had the =
injectors below the throttle plates would be better in that =
regard.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>If =
/ when I get time to go back to playing with that setup again, I may =
look at using a third party EFI controller (such as Megasquirt, if they =
are still making stuff that can be adapted to any generic injector), =
rather than going back to 2003 era user interface and =
controls.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>To =
set the car up for the EFI system, I took many of the same steps that =
Will did. I plumbed a 3/8 inch feed and return line from the back of the =
car to the firewall and mounted a regulator on the firewall. I initially =
used a high volume canister filter as a sort of surge can, but currently =
I have the (stock) feed from the tank running about 12 inches forward, =
to a low pressure pre-filter. Then the return line is teed in, and we go =
to the fuel pump and then the high-pressure post filter. Those three =
pieces are all mounted under the trunk, behind the Alpine spare tire =
well.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I'm=
running a Denso 70 amp alternator that is small enough to tuck ahead of =
the right cylinder head, still preserving the stock fan belt line. I =
also have a Plex wideband O2 sensor mounted in the right header =
collector.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>To =
convert back to the carburetor, I just swapped the 45 PSI regulator out =
for one that would not flood the Holley carb's needle/seat. The (high =
pressure) fuel pump just ends up circulating the fuel through the return =
line, if there is any excess volume.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Che=
ers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
o<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><hr=
size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter id=3Dzwchr></span></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Fro=
m: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&qu=
ot;tigers" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br><b=
>To: </b>"Larry Mayfield" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:drmayf@mayfco.com";>drmayf@mayfco.com</a>><br><b>Cc: =
</b>"tigers" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:TIGERS@autox.team.net";>TIGERS@autox.team.net</a>><br><b=
>Sent: </b>Friday, July 16, 2021 3:38:16 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Tigers] Tiger eplacement carb and alternator =
Questions<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>May=
f,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
got the EFI bug some time ago when I saw a series of Hagerty =
Youtube videos in which a Fairlane (5-bolt) 289 was rebuilt to a =
289 HiPO-ish state and then put it in Brad Phillips Tiger. =
The plan was to do the engine swap and get the engine going with a =
Holley 4BBL setup and then switch the 4BBL for a Holley Sniper EFI =
throttle-body unit. Brad got his Tiger going with the 4BBL setup =
but, to my knowledge, never did the Sniper install. Brad's engine =
swap was recorded in a series of 12 Youtube videos. Here are some =
links:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Her=
e's the first episode of Brad Phillips 289 engine swap: <a =
href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCzWYRPH24Bw&list=3DWL&i=
ndex=3D2&t=3D26s" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCzWYRPH24Bw&list=3D=
WL&index=3D2&t=3D26s</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Her=
e's the Hagerty time-lapse video of the engine rebuild: <a =
href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtVtrnxx3rTE&t=3D0s"; =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtVtrnxx3rTE&t=3D0=
s</a><br clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
re is a Youtube video of a dyno test of the engine with and without =
EFI. So far I haven't found a link to =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
have been making plans to make my car "EFI-ready". That =
is, I want to have a plan for each aspect of the conversion. =
Current plan is to replace the OEM fuel pump with the high pressure pump =
and to house pump and pre and post filters in the same area as =
previously housed the OEM pump. I have made up a heat shield for =
the right-side muffler to keep from roasting the pump. Fuel return =
line will go into the top of the right fuel tank. I can provide =
pictures of the return line fittings if you are interested. I will =
be doing my own harness. The Holley harness is bass ackwards for a =
Tiger, assuming battery up front. Fuel relay and fuses for fuel =
pump and EFI will be located with the pump. Anticipating that =
the fuel pump and injectors will want to suck more current than the OEM =
generator can provide, I have done an alternator conversion. I =
already have a wide band O2 sensor installed for a PLX O2 readout so the =
O2 sensor is already there. Control of distributor advance is =
optional with the Sniper so I don't plan to do opt for that =
initially. Someday I would like to add it though. Should =
improve driveability and maybe =
performance.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Lik=
e I said, I want to make the car "EFI-ready" . Don't =
know if I will actually do the conversion, but I want to at least have =
it thought out so that I can get there from here if I decide =
to.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Wil=
l - 382001570 <br><a href=3D"mailto:Tigers@embarqmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">Tigers@embarqmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></=
div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 9:46 AM Larry Mayfield via Tigers <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
have owned my Tiger since Jan 1967, bought it used. Has been =
sitting quietly now for quite a number of years. And I want to drive it =
a bit more now. But carbs are so old fashioned, lol. So, seeking =
information from the groups experiences, those owners who have replaced =
the carb with an electronic injected version: either 2 bbl or f bbl =
versions. If 2 bbl then I would just use the cast iron intake manifold. =
If 4 bbl I need to know which is best for a bone stock 260 cid which so =
far in my ownership has never been apart. I tend to lean =
toward a 4 bbl version as I have a 5 bolt 289 with some performance =
capability and I would need to buy a manifold for that. I also =
have my 260 LSR motor which has the full treatment and is a real race =
motor. So, seeking real world experience on what and which =
brands are most user friendly while putting out power for driving =
around, having some fun (again). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Lar=
ry, mayf, drmayf etc<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>___=
____________________________________________<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a =
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arqmail.com</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br=
>_______________________________________________<br><br><a =
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