--===============4916364802908716886==
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> Geez Buck, now what will we talk about? Just kidding. Ya know, =
Chrysler really didn=E2=80=99t have much of a choice really. With all =
the fitment issues and the new standards it was probably the right =
choice, or the only choice. What I tend to ponder is, where things might =
have gone with the Tiger if circumstances were different. Shelby =
involvement? Ford involvement? Rootes remaining solvent? Just rambling =
about the what IFs. Cheers=20
>=20
> Thank you Buck for settling this matter. Wish that I could spend time =
going through the archives!
>=20
> Ken Tisdale
>=20
> On 3/8/2020 12:30 PM, Buck Trippel via Tigers wrote:
>> The best and most authoritative answers to the why the Tiger was =
discontinued that I=E2=80=99ve found are in the collection of Papworth =
papers housed in the Culture Coventry Archive at the Herbert Museum in =
Coventry.
>> =20
>> Mr Papworth was a very high level =E2=80=9Cplanner=E2=80=9D for =
Rootes. He reported to a very select group, comprised mainly of family =
members who were the heart of the Rootes board. After his retirement he =
donated thousands(?) of pages of notes and memos. I=E2=80=99ve spent =
several days reading them and want to go back.
>> =20
>> Mr. Papworth lays out a very comprehensive Tiger story. The Tiger =
represented only 2% of Rootes=E2=80=99 sales and was consequentially =
just a blip on management=E2=80=99s attention. Tigers were barely =
mentioned in board meetings as the high production Imps and Hillmans =
dominated the discussions. The Mk1s & 1As sold well. The Mk2 that was =
built was not the Mk2 that the engineers had designed and tested (with =
upgraded 5-bolt 14=E2=80=9D wheels to fit 4-wheel discs, the same 3-puck =
calipers used on Aston Martins and street Cobras) and the resulting lack =
of initial sales seemed to be the straw that broke the camel=E2=80=99s =
back. But Papworth also outlines other contributing issues.
>> =20
>> Rootes engineers determined that Chrysler V8s would not fit in a =
Tiger. They explored alternatives including one that would have been =
built a new =E2=80=9CTiger=E2=80=9D with fiberglass body in the USA. =
Obviously none of those alternatives worked out.
>> =20
>> After Lord Rootes passed away his brother, Reggie, assumed control. =
Reggie wanted to replace the Alpine/Tiger with a smaller sportscar that =
was similar to a Spitfire. That car, =E2=80=9CApex=E2=80=9D, had been =
designed and was very close to production when a sub-contractor tripled =
the initial cost estimate for its fiberglass body. That ended Rootes=E2=80=
=99 attempt at a replacement sportscar.
>> =20
>> The US government had long imposed standards for the cars it =
purchased for government use =E2=80=93 the GSA standards. =
These existing GSA standards were eventually adopted for all cars sold =
in the US. The Alpine/Tiger platform would have needed upgrades to =
comply. Tooling for these would have been costly on a per unit basis due =
to low production volume.
>> =20
>> The space used at Pressed Steel to build the Alpines and Tigers was =
needed by another Rootes vehicle which was high production and therefore =
a higher priority. Assuming Rootes would accept the cost of upgrades to =
comply with GSA standards, where could the Alpine/Tiger be built? Rootes =
looked at alternatives including moving the entire Alpine/Tiger =
production from Pressed Steel to Jensen. At one point Rootes even =
offered to purchase Jensen. Jensen refused. The move never happened. =
Rootes never found an alternate contractor to build the cars.
>> =20
>> Papworth cites all of these factors in the decision to end Tiger =
production.
>> =20
>> Buck Trippel
>> =20
>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> =
Tigers
>> Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Urban legend
>> =20
>> The demise of the Sunbeam Tiger was that they did not sell very well. =
The USA import regs for cars would require expensive modifications to =
the car. So in February 1967 the decision was made to finish the cars =
that were in the line and send them to Canada. Everything about not =
fitting a Chrysler engine is just a rumor.=20
>> =20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive =
<http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ktisdale@ix.netcom.com =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ktisdale@ix.netcom.com>
>>=20
>>=20
> --=20
> Ken Tisdale
> 303-807-5488
> <20200311_175442.jpg>_______________________________________________
>=20
> tigers@autox.team.net
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive
>=20
> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv@yahoo.com
>=20
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><font size=3D"4" class=3D"">Geez =
Buck, now what will we talk about? Just kidding. Ya know, =
Chrysler really didn=E2=80=99t have much of a choice =
really. With all the fitment issues and the new standards it was =
probably the right choice, or the only choice. What I tend to =
ponder is, where things might have gone with the Tiger if circumstances =
were different. Shelby involvement? =
Ford involvement? Rootes remaining solvent? Just rambling =
about the what IFs. Cheers </font></div><div style=3D"font-size:=
100%;" dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><p class=3D"">Thank you Buck for settling this =
matter. Wish that I could spend
time going through the archives!</p><p class=3D"">Ken Tisdale<br =
class=3D"">
</p>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 3/8/2020 12:30 PM, Buck Trippel =
via
Tigers wrote:<br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:006201d5f577$9bac2080$d3046180$@verizon.net" class=3D"">
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
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<div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The best and =
most authoritative answers to
the why the Tiger was discontinued that I=E2=80=99ve found are =
in the
collection of Papworth papers housed in the Culture Coventry
Archive at the Herbert Museum in Coventry.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D""> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mr Papworth was a very =
high level =E2=80=9Cplanner=E2=80=9D
for Rootes. He reported to a very select group, comprised
mainly of family members who were the heart of the Rootes
board. After his retirement he donated thousands(?) of pages
of notes and memos. I=E2=80=99ve spent several days reading =
them and
want to go back. <o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Mr. Papworth lays out a very comprehensive
Tiger story. The Tiger represented only 2% of Rootes=E2=80=99 =
sales
and was consequentially just a blip on management=E2=80=99s =
attention.
Tigers were barely mentioned in board meetings as the high
production Imps and Hillmans dominated the discussions. The
Mk1s & 1As sold well. The Mk2 that was built was not the
Mk2 that the engineers had designed and tested (with upgraded
5-bolt 14=E2=80=9D wheels to fit 4-wheel discs, the same =
3-puck
calipers used on Aston Martins and street Cobras) and the
resulting lack of initial sales seemed to be the straw that
broke the camel=E2=80=99s back. But Papworth also outlines =
other
contributing issues. <o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Rootes engineers determined that Chrysler
V8s would not fit in a Tiger. They explored alternatives
including one that would have been built a new =E2=80=9CTiger=E2=
=80=9D with
fiberglass body in the USA. Obviously none of those
alternatives worked out.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">After Lord Rootes passed away his brother,
Reggie, assumed control. Reggie wanted to replace the
Alpine/Tiger with a smaller sportscar that was similar to a
Spitfire. That car, =E2=80=9CApex=E2=80=9D, had been designed =
and was very
close to production when a sub-contractor tripled the initial
cost estimate for its fiberglass body. That ended Rootes=E2=80=99=
attempt at a replacement sportscar.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">The US government had long imposed
standards for the cars it purchased for government use =E2=80=93=
the
GSA standards. These existing GSA standards were eventually
adopted for all cars sold in the US. The Alpine/Tiger platform
would have needed upgrades to comply. Tooling for these would
have been costly on a per unit basis due to low production
volume. <o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D""> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The space used at =
Pressed Steel to build
the Alpines and Tigers was needed by another Rootes vehicle
which was high production and therefore a higher priority.
Assuming Rootes would accept the cost of upgrades to comply
with GSA standards, where could the Alpine/Tiger be built?
Rootes looked at alternatives including moving the entire
Alpine/Tiger production from Pressed Steel to Jensen. At one
point Rootes even offered to purchase Jensen. Jensen refused.
The move never happened. Rootes never found an alternate
contractor to build the cars.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Papworth cites all of these factors in the
decision to end Tiger production.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Buck Trippel<o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"> <o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p=
class=3D""> </o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D"">From:</b>=
Tigers
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" =
href=3D"mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net";><tigers-bounces@autox.tea=
m.net></a> <b class=3D"">On Behalf Of </b>Ross
Hulse via Tigers<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:57 AM<br =
class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> Curt Bowland <a =
class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" =
href=3D"mailto:cbowland@msn.com";><cbowland@msn.com></a><br =
class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b> tigers <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";><tigers@autox.team.net></a><br=
class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Urban legend<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p =
class=3D""> </o:p></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif" class=3D"">The demise of the Sunbeam =
Tiger was
that they did not sell very well. The USA import =
regs
for cars would require expensive modifications to the
car. So in February 1967 the decision was made to
finish the cars that were in the line and send them to
Canada. Everything about not fitting a Chrysler =
engine
is just a</span> <span =
style=3D"font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif" class=3D"">rumor. </span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" =
wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html</=
a>
Archive: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers";>http://www.team.net/pipermai=
l/tigers</a> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive";>http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
Unsubscribe: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ktisdale@ix.netcom.co=
m">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ktisdale@ix.netcom.com</a>=
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
Ken Tisdale
303-807-5488</pre>
</div><span =
id=3D"cid:ED0AC8E6-E45B-4C3C-A001-B75A594DF466@hsd1.ca.comcast.net"><20=
200311_175442.jpg></span>______________________________________________=
_<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Donate: =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv@yahoo.com<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></body></html>=
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