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I have stated this before; we the owners of Tigers need to
write the history and I truly mean every owner; who better to do just that.
We have a very unique vehicle with running changes that are not clearly
listed anywhere; we need to document this.
I know it is a difficult task because previous owners make changes but we as
current owners can document each Tiger as purchased, document the changes we
make and then pass that along when the time comes. Our Tigers are 50 +
years away from manufactured stock condition which makes totally stock
condition difficult to recognize and document but if we don't start now how
much information will be lost, forever.
This simply takes a combined effort from every owner. I know some of this
seems extremely trivial to many but some of those trivial details are
exactly what is needed to see the full picture.
EX: The Shop Manual list the Ford 260 engine @ 164 HP - Bob Mannel's Book
states that this is the HP # is for the early 260 engine only, the Later
260 engine Ford did not publish the HP numbers. The majority of 260 engines
sent to Rootes were the later 260 engine. I have yet to find information
that states the HP numbers for the later 260 engine.
I fear too many people threw their original Tiger 260 engine away thinking
it was underpowered.
I believe the later 260 was close to the 289 HP numbers but Ford was
promoting the 289 as the engine in Ford's future.
Ron Fraser
From: Tigers [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Smit, Theo
via Tigers
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 10:53 PM
To: J Clark <icanhandyman@yahoo.com>; tigers@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger Wiki
Hi Jon,
The last time that it was attempted to bring the Tiger Wiki page in line
with what is commonly accepted as fact by marque experts, the "editors" who
did the earlier work to the page came out, reverted the edits, and let it be
known in no uncertain terms that they would not tolerate outsiders
besmirching the holy writ of the "reliable sources" they had established
through what they considered to be rigorous process.
The basic problem is that Robson is "reliable source" simply because he has
published a lot of books. Independent research (such as me looking at my
Tiger and finding things that do not agree with their writing) is not
permitted in Wikipedia because it's not "verifiable" by searching other
in-print or otherwise published references. Books such as Norm Miller's,
being independently published and having a small total print run, carry
little or no weight in Wikipedia-land, regardless of the quality of the
underlying research.
If the earlier editors have abandoned wikipedia and it's now possible to
make edits, then that would be fantastic - but it would still have to be
very carefully done so that all parts of the Wiki page have an attribution
back to a book that, from the Wiki point of view, passes the "reliable
source" test.
Since I have taken part in this jousting match several times earlier I'd be
interested in seeing if progress can be made.
Theo
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger Wiki
To Rande Bellman,
The Wiki-"powers-that-be" have accorded the Sunbeam Tiger entry its much
coveted "Featured" status... so it must be accurate!
Seriously though, seeing how it is not "protected" (even semi), anyone is
free to make any and all improvements as they see fit.
Ask me how I know. I.e., as "pragmath", I have made a change or two myself.
Regards,
Jon
P.S. Btw, one thing it's sorely lacking are images of Tigers in stock,
unadorned form. There is very little to choose from in in "Wikimedia".
Please, by all means, have at it.
_____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use
of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be Garmin
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email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> &=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; I have stated this before; we the owners of Tigers need to write =
the history and I truly mean every owner; who better to do just =
that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>We have a =
very unique vehicle with running changes that are not clearly listed =
anywhere; we need to document this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I know it is =
a difficult task because previous owners make changes but we as current =
owners can document each Tiger as purchased, document the changes we =
make and then pass that along when the time comes. Our Tigers are =
50 + years away from manufactured stock condition which makes totally =
stock condition difficult to recognize and document but if we =
don’t start now how much information will be lost, =
forever.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> This simply =
takes a combined effort from every owner. I know some of this =
seems extremely trivial to many but some of those trivial details are =
exactly what is needed to see the full picture.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>EX: =
The Shop Manual list the Ford 260 engine @ 164 HP – Bob =
Mannel’s Book states that this is the HP # is for the early 260 =
engine only, the Later 260 engine Ford did not publish the HP =
numbers. The majority of 260 engines sent to Rootes were the later =
260 engine. I have yet to find information that states the =
HP numbers for the later 260 engine.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> &=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I fear too =
many people threw their original Tiger 260 engine away thinking it was =
underpowered.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I believe =
the later 260 was close to the 289 HP numbers but Ford was promoting the =
289 as the engine in Ford’s future.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
Tigers [mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Smit, =
Theo via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 18, 2016 10:53 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> J Clark <icanhandyman@yahoo.com>; =
tigers@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger =
Wiki<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>H=
i Jon,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>T=
he last time that it was attempted to bring the Tiger Wiki page in line =
with what is commonly accepted as fact by marque experts, the =
“editors” who did the earlier work to the page came out, =
reverted the edits, and let it be known in no uncertain terms that they =
would not tolerate outsiders besmirching the holy writ of the =
“reliable sources” they had established through what they =
considered to be rigorous =
process. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>T=
he basic problem is that Robson is “reliable source” simply =
because he has published a lot of books. Independent research (such as =
me looking at my Tiger and finding things that do not agree with their =
writing) is not permitted in Wikipedia because it’s not =
“verifiable” by searching other in-print or otherwise =
published references. Books such as Norm Miller’s, being =
independently published and having a small total print run, carry little =
or no weight in Wikipedia-land, regardless of the quality of the =
underlying research.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>I=
f the earlier editors have abandoned wikipedia and it’s now =
possible to make edits, then that would be fantastic – but it =
would still have to be very carefully done so that all parts of the Wiki =
page have an attribution back to a book that, from the Wiki point of =
view, passes the “reliable source” =
test.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>S=
ince I have taken part in this jousting match several times earlier =
I’d be interested in seeing if progress can be =
made.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>T=
heo <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>F=
rom: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>T=
igers <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net";>tigers-bounces@autox.team.n=
et</a>> on behalf of Tigers List <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br><b=
>Reply-To: </b>J Clark <<a =
href=3D"mailto:icanhandyman@yahoo.com";>icanhandyman@yahoo.com</a>><br>=
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 9:22 AM<br><b>To: </b>Tigers =
List <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br><b=
>Subject: </b>Re: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger =
Wiki<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div =
id=3Dyiv3049453014><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_2685"><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_2684"><div =
id=3D"yiv3049453014yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466215960717_6113"><div =
id=3D"yiv3049453014yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466215960717_6953"><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>T=
o Rande Bellman,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_3283"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>T=
he Wiki-"powers-that-be" have accorded the Sunbeam Tiger entry =
its much coveted "Featured" status... so it must be =
accurate!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_4657"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>S=
eriously though, seeing how it is not "protected" (even semi), =
anyone is free to make any and all improvements as they see fit. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_5165"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>A=
sk me how I know. I.e., as "pragmath", I have made a change or =
two myself.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_4975"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_4954"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_4974"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; =
Jon<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_7860"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>P=
.S. Btw, one thing it's sorely lacking are images of Tigers in stock, =
unadorned form. There is very little to choose from in in =
"Wikimedia".<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_8102"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>P=
lease, by all means, have at it. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466241767951_5073"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
o:p> </o:p></span></p><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray'><br>C=
ONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole =
use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be =
Garmin confidential and/or Garmin legally privileged. If you have =
received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email =
and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of =
this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the =
intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'><=
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