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Re: Rod Length

To: rpalmer@ames.ucsd.edu, tigers@Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: Rod Length
From: Spook37211@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:46:27 -0400 (EDT)
In a message dated 97-09-10 01:28:55 EDT, rpalmer@ames.ucsd.edu (Bob Palmer)
writes:

<< 
 Guys,
 
 Recently, one of you out there mentioned using 289 rods in a 302 to improve 
 torque.  At least I remember something along those lines.  Here's another 
 subject we could probably spend days on and perhaps get nowhere.  However, 
 there's been a lot of hype in various hot rod magazines, etc. about using 
 longer rods and the beneficial effect on piston velocity, torque, and 
 horsepower which I want to challenge as being 99.44% baloney.  Actually, I 
 think we've about buried the "Hot Tiger" topic and it's time to look for 
 another windmill to tilt.
 
 A little background on the rod length issue can be found in the Wilson, 
 Sadler, and Miches book "Kinematics & Dynamics of Machinery", especially 
 section 3.7.1 starting on page 151 which deals with the "In-Line Slider 
 Crank Mechanism" which is what the piston/ror/crankshaft is.  One thing I 
 found interesting that I hadn't realized is that the motion of the piston is

 not sinusoidal.  It's actually the sum of two sine waves, the primary one 
 being the frequency of crank rotation and a second being twice this 
 frequency (result of side-to-side motion of crank).  The result of this is 
 that the piston spends less time near the top of its motion and 
 consequently, the acceleration of the piston is greater on either side of 
 top dead center than around the bottom of the stroke.  This is all very 
 interesting, but what are the practical consequences?  The aforementioned 
 section graphs piston acceleration for various ratios of rod length to 
 stroke.  Piston acceleration decreases as rod to stoke ratio increases.  
 This means, since F=ma, that the forces acting on the rod also decrease with

 increasing length.  This is far from a complete analysis of the forces 
 acting on the rod, but at least this is a start.  As a practical matter, 
 longer rods weigh more, cost more, the engine block has to be taller, etc., 
 etc.  I haven't done an exhaustive survey, but most production engines have 
 rod/stroke ratios around 1.7:1 or so.
 
 Expanding on this line of thinking, I think a solid case can be made for 
 longer rod length in terms of reducing stress and allowing higher rpm 
 operation.  I presume this is why the BOSS 302 used the longer 289 rods, but

 maybe those Ford engineers had something else in mind.  Is there any 
 corresponding case for improving horsepower or torque?  I remain unconvinced

 of the latter assertion,regardles of how often it is made.  Before resorting

 to more specious arguments, is there any verifiable dynamometer data to 
 support this assertion.  I know there are some very impressive motors out 
 there with extra long rods.  This doesn't necessarily prove that the extra 
 rod length is any benefit in terms of performance; perhaps just helps keep 
 it together at high rpms.
 
 Just thought I'd toss these  thoughts out for a few of you engineering types

 to chew on.  Let me know what you think or what facts you may have to add to

 the picture.
 
 Bob
 
 
 Bob,
I used the longer rods in my engine during the last rebuild, and there was a
noticeable rise in torque on the dyno.  If you are interested, I may be able
to find the two dyno sheets.  As to why, exactly, I am unsure, but it was a
trick picked up at the dragstrip from <gasp> chevy 454 owners, who used the
454 truck block and rods as the basis for their engines.  The
wear/releliability theory was explained as you discovered...in addition, the
longer rod has less angle on the crankpin during the power stroke, and so
more power is transmitted to the crank.
On my engine, the block was decked square and the amount that the pistons
stuck out of the block measured.  I had SCE machine solid copper head gaskets
.090 thick, so that minimum piston to head clearance was maintained.
No problems have surfaced with this setup. 
Any more info would be appreciated......
Regards, Ray

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