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Agreed.=20
Ron Soave
> On Nov 1, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Rick Fisk <refisk@chartermi.net> wrote:
>=20
> After thinking the geometry through I have to agree Hal. Hard to do for a=
n old fart like me. Thinking it through that is. LOL
>=20
> Rick=20
>=20
> Sent from my keyboard
>=20
>> On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Hal Faulkner <frog.aye@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Although it feels strange, I will beg to differ with Ron: Clearance is m=
easured at the valve, but you are really setting the clearance at the cam an=
d follower. Because it is not feasible to measure at the cam/follower, if th=
e rocker ratio is higher you must allow for this and set greater clearance a=
t the valve to compensate. Stock rockers are 1.25 or 1.3 or something like t=
hat. To correct for 1.5 rockers you should actually multiply the standard c=
learance by 1.5/1.25 which is 1.2. 1.2 times12 gives us a corrected clearan=
ce of 14.4thou. That said, this is not a terribly critical setting and depe=
nding on the engine build could be a few thou more. =20
>> Hal
>>=20
>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Ron Soave via Spridgets <spridgets@auto=
x.team.net> wrote:
>>> It doesn't.=20
>>>=20
>>> Ron Soave
>>>=20
>>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.t=
eam.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Why does increasing the rocker ratio cause a need for more clearance?
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from my keyboard
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridgets <spridgets@aut=
ox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I used Minisport roller rockers bought cheap in the 2008-9 crash. I n=
o longer remember, but they probably are 1.5 (red), and I also used a "warm"=
Elgin cam that came in a box of parts.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Where higher ratio rockers are to be used, the required valve clearanc=
e can then be assessed using this simple formula. For instance when using 1.=
5 rockers, you obviously need to multiply the cam/follower clearance by 1.5.=
So 0.010-in x 1.5 gives 0.015-in for standard/mild cams and 0.012-in x 1.5 g=
ives 0.018-in for race/more-modified cams. Interestingly, most re-profiled p=
erformance cams generally have a suggested valve clearance of 0.016-in with s=
tandard ratio rockers. To assess required valve clearance where higher ratio=
rockers are used simply work it backwards and multiply by the higher ratio.=
This works out as 0.016-in divided by 1.25 =3D 0.0128, then x 1.5 =3D 0.019=
2" - or 0.019" at the valve.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Michael MacLean
>>>>> To: Rick Fisk ; Michael Rowe
>>>>> Cc: Spridgets
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:49 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Spridgets] rocker clearance
>>>>>=20
>>>>> How about when you have 1.5 rocker arms? Drove the Bugeye around yest=
erday. Runs great, still blue smoke on acceleration on a recent rebuild. A=
t leat 1000 miles since rebuild. I'm afraid the rings never seated properly=
. Not sure of the cylinder wall surface during the rebuild as I did not so t=
hat part of it.
>>>>> Mike MacLean
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Saturday, October 31, 2015 1:26 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <spridg=
ets@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The 0.029 in. spec is a whole different thing used when you are assemb=
ling the engine. If your engine is together and you just want to set the va=
lve clearance it should be 0.012 in. set cold.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Sent from my keyboard
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Oct 31, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridgets <spridgets@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> New 1275 engine.
>>>>> Haynes says "Rocker clearance, timing only =3D 0.029 in.
>>>>> My mechanic/tutor says, "that is twice what it should be."
>>>>> Bentley says:
>>>>> Rocker clearance: Running (Standard) =3D 0.012 in. cold
>>>>> Running (competition work) =3D 0.015 i=
n.
>>>>> timing =3D 0.029 in.
>>>>> Online sites agree on =3D .012 in. cold.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> So what is the 0.029 in. for?
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Michael Rowe
>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> spridgets@autox.team.net
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>>>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/r=
efisk@chartermi.net
>>>>>=20
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>=20
>>>>> spridgets@autox.team.net
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/rr=
engineer.mike@att.net
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>=20
>>>>> spridgets@autox.team.net
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/re=
fisk@chartermi.net
>>>> ------------------------
>>>>=20
>>>> spridgets@autox.team.net
>>>>=20
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>>=20
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/soa=
vero@yahoo.com
>>>=20
>>> ------------------------
>>>=20
>>> spridgets@autox.team.net
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/frog=
.aye@gmail.com
>>=20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Agreed. <br><br>Ron Soave</div><d=
iv><br>On Nov 1, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Rick Fisk <<a href=3D"mailto:refisk@ch=
artermi.net">refisk@chartermi.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite"><div><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; cha=
rset=3Dutf-8"><div>After thinking the geometry through I have to agree Hal. &=
nbsp; Hard to do for an old fart like me. Thinking it through that is.=
LOL</div><div><br></div><div>Rick <br><br>Sent from my keyboard<=
/div><div><br>On Nov 1, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Hal Faulkner <<a href=3D"mailto=
:frog.aye@gmail.com">frog.aye@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Although it feels strange, I wi=
ll beg to differ with Ron: Clearance is <b>measured at the valve</b>, b=
ut you are really setting the clearance <b>at the cam and follower</b>. Beca=
use it is not feasible to measure at the cam/follower, if the rocker ratio i=
s higher you must allow for this and set greater clearance at the valve to c=
ompensate. Stock rockers are 1.25 or 1.3 or something like that. =
To correct for 1.5 rockers you should actually multiply the standard cleara=
nce by 1.5/1.25 which is 1.2. 1.2 times12 gives us a corrected clearan=
ce of 14.4thou. That said, this is not a terribly critical setting and=
depending on the engine build could be a few thou more. <br></div>Ha=
l<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat,=
Oct 31, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Ron Soave via Spridgets <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">spridgets@autox.te=
am.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"au=
to"><div>It doesn't. <br><br>Ron Soave</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div=
><br>On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:spridgets@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@autox.team.net</a>=
> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>Why does increa=
sing the rocker ratio cause a need for more clearance?<br><br>Sent from my k=
eyboard</div><div><br>On Oct 31, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Michael Rowe via Spridget=
s <<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">spridget=
s@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=
<div><font face=3D"Arial">I used Minisport roller rockers bought cheap i=
n the=20
2008-9 crash. I no longer remember, but they probably are 1.5=20
(red), and I also used a "warm" Elgin cam that came in a box of=20=
parts.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div>
<div><span>Where <a href=3D"http://www.spridgetmania.com/part/C-AHT436/=
Roller-Tipped-15-Ratio-Rockers-Aluminum" target=3D"_blank">higher=20
ratio rockers</a> are to be used, the required valve clearance can then=
be=20
assessed using this simple formula. For instance when using 1.5 rockers, you=
=20
obviously need to multiply the cam/follower clearance by 1.5. So 0.010-in x 1=
.5=20
gives 0.015-in for standard/mild cams and 0.012-in x 1.5 gives 0.018-in for=20=
race/more-modified cams. Interestingly, most re-profiled performance cams=20=
generally have a suggested valve clearance of 0.016-in with standard ratio=20=
rockers. To assess required valve clearance where higher ratio rockers are u=
sed=20
simply work it backwards and multiply by the higher ratio. This works out as=
=20
0.016-in divided by 1.25 =3D 0.0128, then x 1.5 =3D 0.0192" - or 0.019" at t=
he=20
valve.</span></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-=
RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>=20
<a title=3D"rrengineer.mike@att.net" href=3D"mailto:rrengineer.mike@att.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank">Michael=20
MacLean</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"refisk@chartermi.net=
" href=3D"mailto:refisk@chartermi.net"; target=3D"_blank">Rick Fisk</a> ; <a t=
itle=3D"mdrowe@optonline.net" href=3D"mailto:mdrowe@optonline.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">Michael Rowe</a>=20
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title=3D"spridgets@autox.team=
.net" href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Spridgets</=
a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:4=
9=20
PM</div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Spridgets] rocker=20
clearance</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,t=
imes,serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:16px">
<div>How about when you have 1.5 rocker=20
arms? Drove the Bugeye around yesterday. Runs great, still blu=
e=20
smoke on acceleration on a recent rebuild. At leat 1000 miles since=20=
rebuild. I'm afraid the rings never seated properly. Not sure o=
f=20
the cylinder wall surface during the rebuild as I did not so that part of=20=
it.<br></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Mike MacLean<br></div>
<div><span></span></div><br>
<div><br><br></div>
<div style=3D"DISPLAY:block">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:1=
6px">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Luc=
ida Grande,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:16px">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">On Saturday, October 31, 2=
015 1:26 PM,=20
Rick Fisk via Spridgets <<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank">spridgets@autox.team.net</a>>=20
wrote:<br></font></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;MARGIN-TOP:5px;P=
ADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px"><br><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>The 0.029 in. spec is a whole different thing used when you are=20
assembling the engine. If your engine is together and you just wan=
t to=20
set the valve clearance it should be 0.012 in. set cold.<br clear=3D"non=
e"><br clear=3D"none">Sent from my keyboard</div>
<div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">On Oct 31, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Michael Rowe via Sp=
ridgets=20
<<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; shape=3D"rect" rel=3D"no=
follow" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@autox.team.net</a>>=20
wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div></div></blockquote></div></div>
<div>
=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">New 1275 engine.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Haynes says "Rocker clearance, timing only=20
=3D 0.029 in.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">My mechanic/tutor says, "that is twice what it=
should=20
be."</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Bentley says:</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Rocker clearance: Running (Standard) =3D 0.012=
in.=20
cold</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"> =20
&nb=
sp;=20
Running (competition work) =3D 0.0=
15=20
in.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"> &nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; =20
timing =3D 0.029 in.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Online sites agree on =3D .012 in.=20=
cold.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">So what is the 0.029 in. for?</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Michael Rowe</font></div></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div><span>------------------------</span><br clear=3D"none"><span></s=
pan><br clear=3D"none"><span><a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; sha=
pe=3D"rect" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@autox.team.net</a><=
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ns/spridgets/refisk@chartermi.net</a></span><br clear=3D"none"></div></block=
quote></div></div><br>
<div>------------------------<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.net"; shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">spri=
dgets@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a hre=
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</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>--------------------=
----</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team=
.net" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@autox.team.net</a></span><br><span></span>=
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i.net</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div><div><div class=3D"h5"><span>----------------------=
--</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank">spridgets@autox.team.net</a></span><br><span></span><b=
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ahoo.com</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div><br>------------------------=
<br>
<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></body></html>=
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spridgets@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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