Michael:
Thanks. Good points. I would be more than happy to discuss via phone while I
am in the US. I have been living in China for over 2 years. Most of my
investors at this point are Taiwanese, so go figure. They have put the
money up and know that the project is sound. I have done business in Taiwan
I have personally meet the former President of Taiwan, Lee Deng Wei. I know
that Taiwan is different place. Most of my previous legal clients are
Taiwanese.
As for classic cars there are plenty in US. I won!/t be dealing much with
the British cars because they are too cheap and have no market value as
compared to Corvettes and some of other US muscle cars. When comes to
business and someone is willing to pay the right price for your car most of
time it does matter who the buyer really is and what he will do with the
car.
As for my car check out last years Spring issue of the Spitfire magazine and
you will see my Spitfire. Also check the Syracuse Herald and Albany, New
York Times for other pictures and articles about my car. I would be crazy
to think I was going to spend 6,000 hours on a restoration here in China or
the US. My project was totally different. Once you check out the magazine
then you can criticize me. Many of the list members and asked for my input
on their projects. I built the car for me and not to sell. It is in garage
in Syracuse NY used one month year in summer.
Everything I do will be legal cutting corners wont work in the long run but
doing business in another country is not like the US. Unless you have done
big business deals outside the US you would not really know this. Even in
Europe things are different.
I have an education and license to practice law I would not jeopardize this.
This education is worth more than $500,000. Are you a legal expert? Do
hold any professional certifications? I know the law and have been
practicing international law for 5 years. I am working with members of
Delphi, GM and Ford in China on this project. Did you know Buick has a plant
here in China and Ford is planning on opening one? Are they sweatshops?
What qualifies you to talk about Asia? Have ever been here? Lived here?
Speak the language? Probably not? So you really don!/t know what goes here
other than what you may hear or read in the press.
Next time you look at something check out where is made. Probably 50% or
more is made in China. Black& Decker, Sears and most power tools, your
cloths, coffee maker, toaster, toys, etc. You can be sure you see more
after China's admission to WTO. The US is China's biggest trade partner.
If you are really concerned about sweatshops then you better talk to your
Congressman. Good luck!
My shop will state of the art and will not be a sweatshop. If you ever time
come to China you may after some time start to think Globally.
>From: "Michael D. Porter" <mporter@zianet.com>
>Reply-To: "Michael D. Porter" <mporter@zianet.com>
>To: dayton carpenter <djcarpen@hotmail.com>
>CC: jmcneal@ohms.com, spitfires@autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: Response to Classic Car Restoration factory inChina-questions
>Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:04:11 -0700
>
>dayton carpenter wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for your input. I had asked all to reply to me off the list.
>
>But, not to put too fine a point on it, you made a public request for
>responses to your proposal, so... you got public replies.
>
> > First as to quality issues:
> >
> > Anybody that has seen my work knows that I cannot cobble my cars
>together.
>
>Virtually none of us have seen your work. I don't remember seeing you at
>any VTR conventions, and you are a virtual newcomer to the list.
>
> > I probably have one of the best Spitfires in the country. It is also
> > displayed in the newspaper across New York State. Anybody that has seen
>the
> > car knows this. One the best restoration shops in New York, which
> > ironically specializes in English cars, has trained me.
>
>Still, here, your reputation does not precede you.
>
> > If you do the bodywork yourself and he paints the car he make you sign a
> > waiver stating that you will tell others that he painted it. This is
>type
> > of reputation he works on. He did a stock spitfire frame off
>restoration.
> > The car had a new shell the last one that the RTF had years ago. The
>frame
> > was solid so no major sheet metal replacement was needed. The
>restoration
> > cost over $12,000 and that did not include the mechanicals.
>
>Who is "he?" The person who trained you? You don't mention the shop or
>the owner here, so that qualifies as no information at all. And your
>mentor's qualifications are not necessarily your own.
>
> > After completing my frame off project my friend painted my car and
>actually
> > asks for me to bring to his shop when I am in USA for his customers to
>see.
> > This does not take into account the 5,000 hours of modifications to my
> > driveline and frame to fit the Chevy 4.3L V-6 in the Spitfire. I will
>put
> > my car up to anybody!/s on this list whether in performance or
>appearance.
> > My car in large car shows still always places first or second.
>
>Pardon? The issue was work done in China, rather than what your friend
>did for your car in the way of paint. And, 5000 hours to modify for a
>V-6? You'll go broke trying to sell that in the US, even at Chinese
>wages....
>
> > My object here in China is to sell to exclusive market basically large
> > company owners, and not the average person here. China laws strictly
> > controls the importation of cars. The duties on imported cars range
>from
> > 125-to over 200%. Cars will have to pass safety inspections and
>emissions,
> > yes emissions. Lucky before become an attorney I worked as an
>Environmental
> > Engineer. I plan to use the state of the art technology in my factory,
>as
> > most shops here don!/t treat the paint emissions. I plan to help the
> > government here implement their environmental plans thus helping US
> > businesses do business here China.
>
>For many of the reasons previously given by others, you'll likely
>receive little consideration amongst classic car owners in the US, if
>only for the poor reputation for quality to date by Chinese
>manufacturing. Further, you may find pickings much slimmer here than you
>imagine. You'll have to tromp around in a lot of junkyards to find
>enough carcasses to rebuild, and even then, you probably won't find
>enough in the US to keep a factory going (how do I know about that? I
>work in the auto industry).
>
> > As for tax issues I know the law on this, as I am an International
>Attorney
> > specializing in trade and business in China, Hong Kong, Singapore,
>Taiwan,
> > and Thailand. There is no need to explain the law to members on the
>list.
>
>If you don't feel the need to explain the law, in brief, or offer
>citations, people may think it won't be entirely legal, or that you are
>using some provision of the recent favored-nation trading partner
>legislation to further some less-than-up-front scheme.
>
> > AS FOR depleting or driving up the cost of classic cars this is
> > unsubstantiated. From the early 1980s to 1990 the Japanese bought a
>great
> > deal of US cars and shipped them to Japan. This did not have any
>noticeable
> > effect on the car market in the US.
>
>With some makes, yes, it has. And many of those US cars you mention were
>early Datsun Z-cars, not classic Brit cars.
>
> > Furthermore what the US has always stood for, as Jeff stated, is a Free
> > Market Economy (FME). My buying cars are based on this principal. If
> > people don!/t want to sell their car to me they simply wont this FME
> > business basics. But I know they will because the US is a FME.
>
>If you were a lawyer, you'd know it's not "principal," but rather,
>"principle." And sweatshops are run, too, by people who believe in the
>free market. Doesn't make them right, ethically.
>
> > Also next time look at where your rubber and plastic parts are made for
>your
> > Spitfire. Most are made in Taiwan, which now is moving most of these
> > operations in China. So my plan includes making aftermarket parts here.
> I
> > have already selected a management team so quality can be properly
> > controlled.
>
>That's part of the reason why the quality of some aftermarket parts is
>dropping precipitously. And, Taiwan is not China.
>
> > Any additional comments please send to me off the list. We need to be
> > respectful of the other list members.
>
>You made it public here. No one knew of you before you solicited all of
>us for comments on your scheme. I'll take the chance of offending others
>and make my comments public. I encourage you undertake a huge investment
>in your project, hopefully out of your own pocket. When you fail, maybe
>that will sufficiently dampen your entrepreneurial spirit enough for you
>to consider Chinese t-shirts and hats, instead of classic British cars
>and aftermarket parts. Had you actually read this list, instead of
>trying to use it for your own purposes, you might have discovered that
>quality and care in detail are primary concerns of those here.
>
>In short, you did not advertise yourself well at all. You might have
>even made a terrible mistake with regard to your future plans. You just
>might have forewarned us all to stay the hell away from you. <smile>
>
>Cheers.
>
>--
>Michael D. Porter
>Roswell, NM (yes, _that_ Roswell)
>[mailto:mporter@zianet.com]
>
>`70 GT6+ (being refurbished, slowly)
>`71 GT6 Mk. III (organ donor)
>`72 GT6 Mk. III (daily driver)
>`64 TR4 (awaiting intensive care)
>`80 TR7 (3.8 liter Buick-powered)
>`86 Nissan 300ZX (the minimal-maintenance road car)
>`68 VW Type II Camper (Lancia twin-cam powered, but feeling its age....)
>
>Remember: Math and alcohol do not mix... do not drink and derive.
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