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Al,
You are correct - it is the engines that get exercised, not the
generator, and that's an important distinction. Do you do validation or
commissioning, or both?
Our generators have been reliable so far in real emergencies, but live
load testing with our current facility involves some challenges that have
consequences we don't care to risk if we can help it.
Our new facility, currently under construction (coming online at the end of
this year, pandemic notwithstanding), has two 2MW generators (3800 gallons
each) with load bank for testing. So we will exercise the generator along
with the diesel engine. We will probably include live load testing of the
entire system including transfer switch, tie breaker for redundant power
systems, and redundant power supply for one building, at least
semi-annually. As this place won't be a patchwork of 50 years of
continuous improvement with all that implies, I'm planning on the whole
thing being seamless and trouble-free.
A boy can dream, right?
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk <
shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Jeff [and all]:
>
>
>
> As regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised 3=
0
> minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to say
> the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators].
>
>
>
> The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch,
> wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel
> weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility was
> down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It turn=
ed
> out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when the
> generator set was first specified and the switch set couldn=E2=80=99t sup=
port the
> load. It was very frustrating to have a working diesel generator, but
> unable to power the building!
>
>
>
> As a validation person, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be
> tested ahead of time =E2=80=93 in the same way you would use it.
>
>
>
> ----------------
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Al Fuller
>
>
>
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Jeff
> Scarbrough via Shop-talk
> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 AM
> *To:* Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question
>
>
>
>
>
> We have two 500kW generators at work. Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we go
> through about 500-800 gallons per year. I expect that, despite the fact
> that these generators are having their 21st birthday this year, there is
> still some portion of fuel in the tank that is 21 years old. This bother=
s
> me a little bit, but it keeps working. We did throw a jug of biocide in
> one year with the fresh fuel.
>
>
>
> Having said that, we have a service guy come in twice a year to check
> fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 minutes a week just =
to
> make sure they will run when we need them.
>
>
>
> Do like the others have said: check filters, check a fuel sample from th=
e
> tank, and let us know what you find.
>
>
>
> There exist people who do fuel polishing - they come to your large ship o=
r
> tank farm and run an extra fuel cleaning and refreshing for your stored
> diesel fuel. Might be a bit of overkill on the farm.
>
>
>
> Jeff Scarbrough
>
> Corrosion Acres, Ga.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk <
> shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad?
>
> Here is my situation. I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on
> my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) The fuel in
> there has been there a few years.
>
> My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. At ful=
l
> throttle, it seems to sputter a little.
>
> Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or
> is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test t=
o
> do?
>
> Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250
> tank. Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the
> bad first? What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph
> Waldo Emerson
> -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Al,<div><br></div><div>You are correct - it is the engines=
that get exercised, not the generator,=C2=A0and that's an important=C2=
=A0distinction.=C2=A0 Do you do validation or commissioning, or both?=C2=A0=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Our=C2=A0generators=C2=A0 have been reliabl=
e so far in real emergencies, but live load testing with=C2=A0our current f=
acility involves some challenges that have consequences we don't care t=
o risk if we can help it.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br><br>Our new facility, currently=C2=
=A0under construction (coming online at the end of this year, pandemic notw=
ithstanding), has two=C2=A0 2MW generators (3800 gallons each) with load ba=
nk for testing.=C2=A0 So we will exercise the generator along with the dies=
el engine.=C2=A0 We will probably include live load testing of the entire s=
ystem including transfer switch, tie breaker for redundant power systems, a=
nd redundant power supply for one building, at least semi-annually.=C2=A0 A=
s this place won't be a patchwork of 50 years of continuous improvement=
=C2=A0with all that implies, I'm planning on the whole thing being seam=
less and trouble-free.<br><br>A boy can dream, right?</div></div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 24, =
2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@au=
tox.team.net">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gma=
il-m_-1305550463885562625WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeff [and all=
]:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">As regards the comment you made below that the generators ge=
t exercised 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you=
meant to say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generator=
s]. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">The difference is the generator set also includes the tran=
sfer switch, wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up th=
e diesel weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facil=
ity was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. I=
t turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when =
the generator set was first specified and the switch set couldn=E2=80=99t s=
upport the load.=C2=A0 It was very frustrating to have a working diesel gen=
erator, but unable to power the building!<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">As a validation perso=
n, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be tested ahead of time =
=E2=80=93 in the same way you would use it.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">----------------<u>=
</u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">All the best,<u></u><u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Al Fuller<u=
></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div style=
=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt so=
lid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</=
b> Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=
=3D"_blank">shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Je=
ff Scarbrough via Shop-talk<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 AM<=
br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank"=
>Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fue=
l question<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">We have two 500kW generators at work.=C2=A0 Each has a 140=
0 gallon tank; we go through about 500-800 gallons per year.=C2=A0 I expect=
that, despite the fact that these generators are having their=C2=A021st bi=
rthday this=C2=A0year, there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that=
is 21 years old.=C2=A0 This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps working.=
=C2=A0 We did throw a jug of biocide in one year with the fresh fuel.<u></u=
><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Having said that, we have a service guy come in twic=
e a year to check fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 minu=
tes a week just to make sure they will run when we need them.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do like the others=C2=A0have said:=C2=A0 c=
heck filters, check a fuel sample from the tank, and let us know what you f=
ind.<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">There exist people who do fuel polish=
ing - they come to your large ship or tank farm and run an extra fuel clean=
ing and refreshing for your stored diesel fuel.=C2=A0 Might be a bit of ove=
rkill on the farm.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeff Scarbrough<u></u>=
<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Corrosion Acres, Ga.<u></u><u>=
</u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-t=
alk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">shop-=
talk@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=
=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right=
:0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Does anyone know of a way to tel=
l if diesel fuel has gone bad?</span> <br><br><span style=3D"font-size:10pt=
;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Here is my situation.=C2=A0 I have a large d=
iesel fuel tank for my tractors on my property (so I don't have to buy =
'over the road' diesel.) =C2=A0The fuel in there has been there a f=
ew years.</span> <br><br><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif">My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny.=
=C2=A0 At full throttle, it seems to sputter a little.</span> <br><br><span=
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Could be a fuel prob=
lem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a way of look=
ing at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to do?</span> <br><br><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Related follow up,=
if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank.=C2=A0 Can I ju=
st add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad first?=C2=A0=
What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel?</span> <br><br=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Thanks!</span>=
<br><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br><br>&q=
uot;Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rationa=
l being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ral=
ph Waldo Emerson <br>-Who is John Galt?</span>_____________________________=
__________________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.=
team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>=
<br>Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96<br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://ww=
w.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/shop-talk</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D=
"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmai=
l.com</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div>_____=
__________________________________________<br>
<br>
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ox.team.net</a><br>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk"; rel=3D"norefer=
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</blockquote></div>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
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