--===============2886359976792621189==
boundary=Apple-Mail-F5628109-8F93-4696-AE6D-04119A9FB398
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
--Apple-Mail-F5628109-8F93-4696-AE6D-04119A9FB398
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi William,
Check out Abingdon Spares. Much of their stock is Moss, but often t=
hey have other suppliers=E2=80=99 products, and everything they offer is goo=
d stuff. Disclosure=E2=80=94Ed and Martin are friends, supporters of CT MG=
Club, active drivers, and AS is 15 miles from here.
If you did not specify GT wheel cylinders last time, I=E2=80=99m su=
re that supplier sent you Tourer cylinders, which are the ones you want. Ri=
ng up Abingdon on Monday and get the ones you need. If you are holding the w=
rong ones in your hand, they can confirm what it is you have. =20
Had a previous owner switched back plates to GT and used GT cylinde=
rs, you may have experienced premature rear-wheel lockup. It=E2=80=99s not a=
n iffy thing=E2=80=94-you know when it happens, and it=E2=80=99s not a good e=
xperience.=20
Have a look at speed bleeder site. I am ambivalent about the thing=
s, though my friends love them. Seems to me you still have to put a bleed h=
ose on the bleeder and watch the fluid coming out. The thing that=E2=80=99=
s good about them is that they shut when pressure on the pedal is released, s=
o they don=E2=80=99t suck air. When done, you snug them gently as you would=
regular bleeders. =20
I was working today on a Triumph Super Nine brakes, in my garage. T=
he Mighty Vac didn=E2=80=99t seem all that mighty. We resorted to pedal pres=
sure, which worked better, but not great. These 1932 Lockheed brakes (on an=
English car, no less) are similar to our MGB rear brakes, but different in d=
etail. Cast aluminium shoes, for one, shoes linked at the bottom, not pivoti=
ng. The adjuster pushes the shoes apart near the top, where the double-side c=
ylinder expands. The bleed screw is minuscule, with a pin-hole orifice, and i=
t screws into an adapter that goes into the cylinders, adapter with two pin-=
hole orifices. Behind the adapter is a ball bearing. Huh? We are cautious=
ly learning as we go, among other things learning that a tiny piece of rust b=
locks those fluid passages. Master Cylinder is just back from White Post, s=
o it should be the one thing in the system that we can count on being right.=
Look up Triumph Super Nine in Wikipedia. This is the blue car with black=
wings that is in the photo. It may be the only one in USA. Owner has dili=
gently scanned the internet for anything pertaining to the car. All the fact=
ory publications went up in smoke one night in 1940. =20
Happy to read that the evil clutch work is done. Brakes are a dodd=
le after that.
Bob
> On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:44 PM, wkilleffer@epbfi.com wrote:
>=20
> Thank you for your reply.
> As far as the type of wheel cylinders, I don't recall that there was a cho=
ice as to whether they were for a GT or a roadster. The only choice was eith=
er Lockheed brand (maybe) for more $, or an aftermarket for less $. As far a=
s I know, the back plates are original, but I've only owned the car for 20 y=
ears. Its engine is not original, so who knows what else could have been swa=
pped.=20
> Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing? And how do do pe=
dal pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?
> The fluid is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so no lines are cr=
imped. But thanks to the poor fitment of the bleeder thing with the tool, I c=
an't tell if the air bubbles are coming through the brake lines or are air b=
eing drawn into the bleeder because the fitment isn't good.=20
> Yes, I did the clutch system a couple or three years ago. It was a bit fru=
strating, but seems ok now.
>=20
> Thank you,
> -William
>=20
> From: "Robert's New iPad" <mgbobh@gmail.com>
> To: wkilleffer@epbfi.com
> Cc: mgs@autox.team.net
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 1:36:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB rear brake questions
>=20
> The rear-brake question opens more questions. MGBs had rear cyli=
nders to fit the Tourers and the GTs, different sizes of cylinders and diffe=
rent back plates. The roll pins located the cylinders in the correct back=
ing plates.
> Thus the questions arise: Tourer back plates and new GT cylinders?=
GT backplates and new Tourer cylinders? Car modified before you got it? W=
rong cylinders ordered/shipped?
> Having wrestled through this with my GT, it was years back and now I=
do not recall which cylinders (size and pin location) are Tourer or GT. So=
meone will know, though, and that challenge easily mastered. GT cylinders a=
re larger, suited to the additional weight of GTs. If you have to swap part=
s, do it the way MG built it=E2=80=94they got it right.=20
> As you replaced them years ago, my bet is that the vendor shipped w=
rong cylinders.=20
> As to the bleeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal push=
ing has done fine for me on many cars, though I did install speed bleeders o=
n this GT. They are an easy exchange and work OK, but the savings of 1/4 cu=
p of brake fluid doing the job are hardly worthwhile. If the rear brakes a=
re difficult to bleed, have a close look at the metal pipes on the axle. A c=
ar that has been flat-bed carried may have had the straps wrapped around the=
axle, crushing the tubes. That=E2=80=99s not an unusual thing to find.
> Since you are changing hoses, have you changed clutch hose? These b=
reak down internally whilst appearing fine externally. As you do the change,=
do it swiftly, w/o interruption, as introducing a bubble into the line is a=
ltogether too easy, and bleeding the clutch line has made many an owner irat=
e.
> Bob
>=20
>=20
> On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:04 PM, wkilleffer@epbfi.com wrote:
>=20
> Hello everyone,
>=20
> The car I'm working on is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to r=
eplace everything relating to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the=
metal lines. I ordered the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a cou=
ple of years before actually starting the project.
>=20
> So, I got the new master cylinder installed, which is probably one of the m=
ore challenging things I've ever done on the car. Next step was working on t=
he rear brakes. The rubber hose in the back was pretty simple, but the issue=
is with the wheel cylinders. I replaced them maybe twenty years ago and did=
n't have any trouble. But these new ones have a roller pin on them that does=
n't line up with the holes on the brake's backing plate. It's been too long t=
o try and swap them with Moss, and I'm not sure that would do any good anywa=
y because I don't recall that there were too many choices for that part. You=
could get a cheaper aftermarket or a more expensive part that may be made i=
n England. I went with the cheaper one.
>=20
> Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably drill another hol=
e in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems like one of those D=
PO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to entertain such a noti=
on anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The current wheel cyl=
inders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of all new parts. The=
front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there yet.
>=20
> The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes. I started to bl=
eed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum tool I got at a well-known=
less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's been a letdown f=
or several reasons, among them that the bleeders on the wheel cylinders seem=
too small for the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, which causes th=
e tool to draw a great deal of air through its system. I seemed to barely be=
able to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I have is that I am s=
ingle and live alone, so I don't have any readily available sources of help.=
If the brakes are going to be bled, I have to do them by myself. Does anyon=
e have any advice on this topic?
>=20
> Thank you,
> -William
> 1974 MGB
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> Mgs@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh@gmail.com
>=20
--Apple-Mail-F5628109-8F93-4696-AE6D-04119A9FB398
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi W=
illiam,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-=
space:pre"> </span>Check out Abingdon Spares. Much of their stock=
is Moss, but often they have other suppliers=E2=80=99 products, and everyth=
ing they offer is good stuff. Disclosure=E2=80=94Ed and Martin are fr=
iends, supporters of CT MG Club, active drivers, and AS is 15 miles from her=
e.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre"> </span>If you did not specify GT wheel cylinders last time, I=E2=80=
=99m sure that supplier sent you Tourer cylinders, which are the ones you wa=
nt. Ring up Abingdon on Monday and get the ones you need. If you are h=
olding the wrong ones in your hand, they can confirm what it is you have. &n=
bsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre"> </span>Had a previous owner switched back plates to GT and u=
sed GT cylinders, you may have experienced premature rear-wheel lockup. &nbs=
p;It=E2=80=99s not an iffy thing=E2=80=94-you know when it happens, and it=E2=
=80=99s not a good experience. </div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span>Have a look at speed=
bleeder site. I am ambivalent about the things, though my friends lov=
e them. Seems to me you still have to put a bleed hose on the bleeder a=
nd watch the fluid coming out. The thing that=E2=80=99s good about th=
em is that they shut when pressure on the pedal is released, so they don=E2=80=
=99t suck air. When done, you snug them gently as you would regular bl=
eeders. </div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre"> </span>I was working today on a Triumph Super Nine b=
rakes, in my garage. The Mighty Vac didn=E2=80=99t seem all that might=
y. We resorted to pedal pressure, which worked better, but not great. =
These 1932 Lockheed brakes (on an English car, no less) are similar to our M=
GB rear brakes, but different in detail. Cast aluminium shoes, for one, shoe=
s linked at the bottom, not pivoting. The adjuster pushes the shoes apart ne=
ar the top, where the double-side cylinder expands. The bleed screw is minus=
cule, with a pin-hole orifice, and it screws into an adapter that goes into t=
he cylinders, adapter with two pin-hole orifices. Behind the adapter is a ba=
ll bearing. Huh? We are cautiously learning as we go, among oth=
er things learning that a tiny piece of rust blocks those fluid passages. &n=
bsp;Master Cylinder is just back from White Post, so it should be the one th=
ing in the system that we can count on being right. Look up Triumph S=
uper Nine in Wikipedia. This is the blue car with black wings that is i=
n the photo. It may be the only one in USA. Owner has diligently=
scanned the internet for anything pertaining to the car. All the factory pu=
blications went up in smoke one night in 1940. </div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span>Happ=
y to read that the evil clutch work is done. Brakes are a doddle after=
that.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br>On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:44 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:wkilleffer@epbfi.co=
m">wkilleffer@epbfi.com</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font=
-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><div>Thank you for your reply.</div><div>As far=
as the type of wheel cylinders, I don't recall that there was a choice as t=
o whether they were for a GT or a roadster. The only choice was either Lockh=
eed brand (maybe) for more $, or an aftermarket for less $. As far as I know=
, the back plates are original, but I've only owned the car for 20 years. It=
s engine is not original, so who knows what else could have been swapped.&nb=
sp;</div><div>Can you shed more light on the whole speed bleeder thing? And h=
ow do do pedal pumping bleeding when you're by yourself?</div><div>The fluid=
is making its way back to the wheel cylinder, so no lines are crimped. But t=
hanks to the poor fitment of the bleeder thing with the tool, I can't tell i=
f the air bubbles are coming through the brake lines or are air being drawn i=
nto the bleeder because the fitment isn't good. </div><div>Yes, I did t=
he clutch system a couple or three years ago. It was a bit frustrating, but s=
eems ok now.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Thank you,</div><=
div>-William</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__=
"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Robert's New iPad" <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:mgbobh@gmail.com";>mgbobh@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To: </b><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:wkilleffer@epbfi.com";>wkilleffer@epbfi.com</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a=
href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net";>mgs@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Sent: </b>S=
aturday, October 23, 2021 1:36:03 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Mgs] MGB rear b=
rake questions<br></div><div><br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre"> </span>The rear-brake question opens more questions=
. MGBs had rear cylinders to fit the Tourers and the GTs, diffe=
rent sizes of cylinders and different back plates. The roll pin=
s located the cylinders in the correct backing plates.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span>Thus=
the questions arise: Tourer back plates and new GT cylinders? GT back=
plates and new Tourer cylinders? Car modified before you got it?  =
;Wrong cylinders ordered/shipped?</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple=
-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span>Having wrestled through this=
with my GT, it was years back and now I do not recall which cylinders (size=
and pin location) are Tourer or GT. Someone will know, though, and th=
at challenge easily mastered. GT cylinders are larger, suited to the a=
dditional weight of GTs. If you have to swap parts, do it the way MG b=
uilt it=E2=80=94they got it right. </div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span>As you replaced them=
years ago, my bet is that the vendor shipped wrong cylinders. </div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=
</span>As to the bleeding, my experience has been that ordinary pedal
pushi=
ng has done fine for me on many cars, though I did install speed bleeders on=
this GT. They are an easy exchange and work OK, but the savings of 1/=
4 cup of brake fluid doing the job are hardly worthwhile. If the rear=
brakes are difficult to bleed, have a close look at the metal pipes on the a=
xle. A car that has been flat-bed carried may have had the straps wrap=
ped around the axle, crushing the tubes. That=E2=80=99s not an unusual=
thing to find.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre"> </span>Since you are changing hoses, have you chang=
ed clutch hose? These break down internally whilst appearing fine exte=
rnally. As you do the change, do it swiftly, w/o interruption, as introducin=
g a bubble into the line is altogether too easy, and bleeding the clutch lin=
e has made many an owner irate.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 23, 2021, at 1:04 PM, <a href=3D"m=
ailto:wkilleffer@epbfi.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noref=
errer">wkilleffer@epbfi.com</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:=
12pt;color:#000000"><div>Hello everyone,</div><br><div>The car I'm working o=
n is a 1974 MGB roadster. I decided that I wanted to replace everything rela=
ting to the brakes and their hydraulics except for the metal lines. I ordere=
d the parts from Moss but had to sit on them for a couple of years before ac=
tually starting the project.</div><br><div>So, I got the new master cylinder=
installed, which is probably one of the more challenging things I've ever d=
one on the car. Next step was working on the rear brakes. The rubber hose in=
the back was pretty simple, but the issue is with the wheel cylinders. I re=
placed them maybe twenty years ago and didn't have any trouble. But these ne=
w ones have a roller pin on them that doesn't line up with the holes on the b=
rake's backing plate. It's been too long to try and swap them with Moss, and=
I'm not sure that would do any good anyway because I don't recall that ther=
e were too many choices for that part. You could get a cheaper aftermarket o=
r a more expensive part that may be made in England. I went with the cheaper=
one.</div><br><div>Has this been an issue for anyone else? I could probably=
drill another hole in the back plate to match the roll pin, but that seems l=
ike one of those DPO solutions. Also, I don't feel like I should have to ent=
ertain such a notion anyway. The part should fit and function correctly. The=
current wheel cylinders are probably ok to re-use, but I liked the idea of a=
ll new parts. The front brakes are also on the agenda, but we're not there y=
et.</div><br><div>The next question has to do with bleeding the rear brakes.=
I started to bleed the brake furthest from the MC using a vacuum tool I got=
at a well-known less expensive (think shipping at a port) tool store. It's b=
een a letdown for several reasons, among them that the bleeders on the wheel=
cylinders seem too small for the bleeder fittings that came with the tool, w=
hich causes the tool to draw a great deal of air through its system. I seeme=
d to barely be able to get any fluid through the system. The trouble I have i=
s that I am single and live alone, so I don't have any readily available sou=
rces of help. If the brakes are going to be bled, I have to do them by mysel=
f. Does anyone have any advice on this topic?</div><br><div>Thank you,</div>=
<div>-William</div><div>1974 MGB</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote><=
div dir=3D"ltr">_______________________________________________<br><br><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener n=
oreferrer">Mgs@autox.team.net</a><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">http://w=
ww.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br=
>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs"; target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> <a h=
ref=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noop=
ener noreferrer">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: <a hr=
ef=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh@gmail.com"; target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/mgs/mgbobh@gmail.com</a></div></blockquote><br></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail-F5628109-8F93-4696-AE6D-04119A9FB398--
--===============2886359976792621189==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Mgs@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net
--===============2886359976792621189==--
|