mgs
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [Mgs] Timing discussion

To: "Richard Lindsay" <richardolindsay@gmail.com>, <mgs@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Timing discussion
From: PaulHunt73 via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:49:57 +0100 bMFv/KcngzH7BaLdUQ4+BsZyz9LJlFRf5L9oRs/J1XjZOyBRS1GlR/9wLdiN/VUdDGwhVyI9qNvt1mSSwy8as/fOeImQTqvgJ2k=
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: mgs@autox.team.net
References: <CAOc+-dw=7CEDrgmHqzLFkfBiUYixo+HViyKcwCyFNGRMu4Zotw@mail.gmail.com> <CAOc+-dwHdKMkqkhtoPLQTxaR9e1Pq3LiwX0ngdxh9cVDoa337Q@mail.gmail.com> <5FC3313E-A715-414B-BDFD-45D073FA1529@sonic.net> <CAEUYfyOyGAR_xwP=if1x1TpuOzt=62Dbe2xCLLinX6=S2FjnJw@mail.gmail.com> <CAOc+-dwh42pOu8ChiRHUNYyVcMgM7LM3R60qpQu0KXiud2NNhA@mail.gmail.com>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--===============5912332146780455162==
        boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A4_01D4FAA4.9A7F6DD0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01D4FAA4.9A7F6DD0
        charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"until you notice preignition"  Is a bit drastic.  Haynes says to drive =
at full throttle in 4th from 30 to 50 and advance until faint pinking =
can be heard.  However I've noticed that I can get pinking at part =
throttle and opening the throttle further stops it, either because the =
bigger charge cools the combustion chamber more, or the vacuum advance =
backs off.  So I use the criteria 'at any combination of throttle, revs =
and load' and keep it just short of that. =20

The reason Haynes says that you can benefit from advancing it over book =
values is that with the level of engineering used in our engines some =
will be more prone to pinking than others,and the book caters for the =
worst case, and maybe with a bit of a safety factor.  That was =
definitely the case with an A-series in the 70s, which as a new car and =
dealer serviced always came back running like a dog (comparatively) as =
they always put it back to book.  But on my 73 MGB I couldn't run more =
than book, even on leaded, and have to retard slightly from that on =
unleaded even 99 octane.

Whether it pinks or not also depends on terrain.  Living in a relatively =
flat part of the world I don't get pinking, but when touring in Wales =
and other mountainous areas it can.  The 25D4 distributor is a great =
benefit here as it allows one to retard the timing a degree or two very =
easily, also if one can't get higher octane fuel in rural areas.

Completely agree with your reasoning behind centrifugal and vacuum =
advance, but:

"The other is pressure operated, offering advance when the twin turbos =
raise the plenum pressure above ambient."

Are you sure that isn't vacuum retard?  If the turbos were increasing =
the pressure I'd expect that to make spontaneous combustion more likely, =
needing retarding to control.

PaulH.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
     I write to open a discussion about ignition timing. Over on the =
Triumph forum ( Apologies for using profanity. ) a member wrote, "Just =
advance the timing until you notice preignition." Now I recognize that =
Triumphs use farm implement engines, but that advice seems a bit =
sketchy. So let me write a preface then ask a question.

------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01D4FAA4.9A7F6DD0
        charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"</FONT><FONT size=3D3>until you notice =
preignition"&nbsp; Is a=20
bit drastic.&nbsp; Haynes says to drive at full throttle in 4th from 30 =
to 50=20
and advance until faint pinking can be heard.&nbsp; However I've noticed =
that I=20
can get pinking at part throttle and opening the throttle further stops =
it,=20
either because&nbsp;the bigger charge cools the combustion chamber more, =
or the=20
vacuum advance backs off.&nbsp; So I use the criteria 'at any =
combination of=20
throttle, revs and load' and keep it just short of that.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>The reason Haynes says that you can benefit from =
advancing it=20
over book values is that with the level of engineering used in our =
engines some=20
will be more prone to pinking than others,and the book caters for the =
worst=20
case, and maybe with a bit of a safety factor.&nbsp; That was definitely =
the=20
case with an A-series in the 70s, which as a new car and dealer serviced =
always=20
came back running like a dog (comparatively) as they always put it back =
to=20
book.&nbsp; But on my 73 MGB I couldn't run more than book, even on =
leaded, and=20
have to retard slightly from that on unleaded even 99 =
octane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Whether it pinks or not also depends on =
terrain.&nbsp; Living=20
in a relatively flat part of the world I don't get pinking, but when =
touring in=20
Wales and other mountainous areas it can.&nbsp; The 25D4 distributor is =
a great=20
benefit here as it allows one to retard the timing a degree or two very =
easily,=20
also if one can't get higher octane fuel in rural areas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Completely agree with your reasoning behind =
centrifugal and=20
vacuum advance, but:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"</FONT><FONT size=3D3>The other is pressure =
operated, offering=20
advance when the twin turbos raise the plenum pressure above=20
ambient."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Are you sure that isn't vacuum retard?&nbsp; If the =
turbos=20
were increasing the pressure I'd expect that to make spontaneous =
combustion more=20
likely, needing retarding to control.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>PaulH.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I=20
  write to open a discussion about ignition timing. Over on the Triumph =
forum (=20
  Apologies for using profanity. ) a member wrote, "Just advance the =
timing=20
  until you notice preignition." Now I recognize that Triumphs use farm=20
  implement engines, but that advice seems a bit sketchy. So let me =
write a=20
  preface then ask a question.</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dauto><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01D4FAA4.9A7F6DD0--


--===============5912332146780455162==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________

Mgs@autox.team.net

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mharc@autox.team.net

--===============5912332146780455162==--


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>