My old Chevette was 120" WB and it handled just fine. Would have no qualms
about running 300 MPH in that car. So a longer WB makes it more stable than
what? #265 seems to do just fine with less than I have. My new car is
longer, but only for packaging reasons it's not a handling issue.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Turk" <kturk@ala.net>
To: "George Mitchell" <americanpartnerinrussia@starpower.net>; "John
Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
Cc: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Wheelbase & Handling
> Yeah My Camaro is 108"
>
> to answer your question on if it would be more stable in a long wheelbase
> car I think the answer is YES... but Many folks would disagree with me...
> as there are several Monza's out there running Very Fast....
>
> I guess that is why we race....
>
> K
>
> ----------
> > From: George Mitchell <americanpartnerinrussia@starpower.net>
> > To: John Beckett <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
> > Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net
> > Subject: RE: Wheelbase & Handling
> > Date: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:01 PM
> >
> > I couldnt find it but I think a Monza is like 102
> > I think a firebird is more like 110.
> > g
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Beckett [mailto:landspeedracer@email.msn.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 7:47 PM
> > To: George Mitchell
> > Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Wheelbase & Handling
> >
> >
> > Did you ever determine the wheel base of the Monza? Cause I think the
> > Firebird is only 101".
> >
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George Mitchell" <americanpartnerinrussia@starpower.net>
> > To: <kturk@ala.net>; "Dick J" <lsr_man@yahoo.com>;
> <FastmetalBDF@aol.com>;
> > <Dale.Clay@mdhelicopters.com>; <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>;
> > <Flowbench@aol.com>; <fosterap@flash.net>
> > Cc: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:45 PM
> > Subject: RE: Ballast & Handling
> >
> >
> > > I have got you Kieth and I understand.
> > > I guess my question is ( I am sorry if I am belaboring it ) If you
> took
> > > the motor out of that 300 mph firebird and put it in one of the many
> > Monzas
> > > thats running out there , would it be pretty close because of the
> smaller
> > > whole put in the air by the monza or would it be scary because of the
> > > wheelbase?
> > > I know wheelbase is good, I just wonder about the "build it like a
dart
> "
> > vs
> > > "aero center of pressure " discussion that seems banter about .
> > > George in Dc working at the computer today
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Keith Turk [mailto:kturk@ala.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 5:27 PM
> > > To: Dick J; George Mitchell; FastmetalBDF@aol.com;
> > > Dale.Clay@mdhelicopters.com; landspeedracer@email.msn.com;
> > > Flowbench@aol.com; fosterap@flash.net
> > > Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net
> > > Subject: Re: Ballast & Handling
> > >
> > >
> > > You get them to allow that in the Altered category.... and I am a
> > Player...
> > > the air dam must be no farther forward then the front of the front
> > > bumper...
> > >
> > > but your thoughts are right.... Given a certain amount of Frontal area
> to
> > > work with ... my goal was to think of the car as it went through the
> air
> > > and look for anyplace the air would get messed with at all.... or what
> > > would cause the air NOT to flow as smoothly as it could.... Take this
> to
> > an
> > > extreme and you end up with a car designed JUST like Jack's ... Now
if
> I
> > > could get Dan to sign off on that as a Production Car.... well Red
> hat's
> > > wouldn't be an issue!!!
> > >
> > > Keith ( still waiting for the folks on the other side of that wall to
> send
> > > my Z piece of metal back to me)
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > > From: Dick J <lsr_man@yahoo.com>
> > > > To: kturk@ala.net; George Mitchell
> > > <americanpartnerinrussia@starpower.net>; FastmetalBDF@aol.com;
> > > Dale.Clay@mdhelicopters.com; landspeedracer@email.msn.com;
> > > Flowbench@aol.com; fosterap@flash.net
> > > > Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net
> > > > Subject: Re: Ballast & Handling
> > > > Date: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:17 PM
> > > >
> > > > AND THIS FROM A GUY WHO MAKES FAKE ROCKS FOR A
> > > > LIVING!
> > > >
> > > > Believe it or not, I followed all of that, Keith.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now, about the frontal area you mention regarding
> > > > stock-bodied cars. It would seem to me that if
> > > > you are stuck with a given frontal area based on
> > > > stock body configuration, the best thing to do
> > > > would be to make the nose as streamlined as
> > > > possible to slip into the air a little smoother.
> > > > Yet, it seems like most of the stock-bodied cars,
> > > > like yours, have the grill blocked off and a
> > > > practically flat air dam across the front. Why
> > > > isn't it more efficient to continue the factory
> > > > slope of the hood and front fenders out about
> > > > three feet and right down to 2" from the ground".
> > > > Imagine your Camaro with a Corvette front clip.
> > > > Why attack the air with such a blunt instrument?
> > > >
> > > > Dick J
> > > >
> > > > --- Keith Turk <kturk@ala.net> wrote:
> > > > > WHOA..... Guys we are losing something here in
> > > > > the translation....
> > > > >
> > > > > We first need to define the difference between
> > > > > instant center....( point in
> > > > > the car where mechanical forces are applied )
> > > > > and Aerodynamic Center of
> > > > > Pressure.... They are not the same thing....
> > > > >
> > > > > A short wheel Base car is NOT more stable then
> > > > > a Long wheelbase car....
> > > > > little logic goes a long way here.... the
> > > > > longer the car the longer the
> > > > > arm can be where force is applied.... Longer
> > > > > lever.... better leverage...
> > > > > hmmm
> > > > >
> > > > > are the front wheels getting lighter because of
> > > > > the Traction associated
> > > > > with the rear tires.... hmmm sure I think that
> > > > > is why we see wheel stands
> > > > > at a drag strip.... at Bonneville we don't have
> > > > > that kind of traction...
> > > > >
> > > > > Keep in mind at Speed we have aerodynamic
> > > > > pressures on the nose of the car
> > > > > as a matter of impact air... and that downforce
> > > > > in conjunction with the
> > > > > other aerodynamic aids we have ( spoilers ...
> > > > > air dam's so on ) converts
> > > > > into what the Total aerodynamic pressures are
> > > > > on the car.... the sum of all
> > > > > of these forces equals some amount of Force....
> > > > > where that force is
> > > > > excerted called the center of Pressure.... the
> > > > > NET effect of Both of these
> > > > > is the total downforce on the car.....
> > > > >
> > > > > Now if we can develop the Traction of a Top
> > > > > Fuel car.... then I think the
> > > > > Blow over is an event we need to think about
> > > > > when designing a car.... in
> > > > > the mean time on Stock bodies the critical
> > > > > dimensions are going to be
> > > > > length and Frontal area.... Longer is Good...
> > > > > and the smallest frontal area
> > > > > is Very critical.... which is more important to
> > > > > you is a matter of
> > > > > choice.... ( yeah I bet there is a logical
> > > > > solution to this on paper
> > > > > somewhere... I ain't smart enough to sort it
> > > > > out.. I just know what has
> > > > > worked in my case )
> > > > >
> > > > > Keith ( okay Dan Help Mr. wizard... I am
> > > > > totally lost)
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't in my mind anyway figure out how a
> > > > > short car would handle better
> > > > > then a long car out of all that..... Keep in
> > > > > mind car's like Jack's Truly
> > > > > are like a lawn dart.... the longer they are
> > > > > the straighter they go....
> > > > > with less impute.
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > > From: George Mitchell
> > > > > <americanpartnerinrussia@starpower.net>
> > > > > > To: FastmetalBDF@aol.com;
> > > > > Dale.Clay@mdhelicopters.com;
> > > > > landspeedracer@email.msn.com;
> > > > > Flowbench@aol.com; lsr_man@yahoo.com;
> > > > > fosterap@flash.net
> > > > > > Cc: kturk@ala.net; land-speed@autox.team.net
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Ballast & Handling
> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:11 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > snip<Those long wheelbase cars
> > > > > > reduce the weight on the front tire patch>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so why would you want less weight on the
> > > > > front tire patch if that is
> > > > > whats
> > > > > > going to steer you out of trouble ?
> > > > > > If the leverege can make trouble down course
> > > > > worse then why wouldnt a
> > > > > > slippery small car work better than a
> > > > > slippery longer one . Note-- I am
> > > > > > talking Monza vs Firebird -- not roadster vs
> > > > > streamliner--or are they
> > > > > pretty
> > > > > > darn close?
> > > > > > Im just thinking wheelbase here. I know that
> > > > > the Firebird that we ran
> > > > > > handled better than the Monza but now you all
> > > > > have me wondering why. I
> > > > > > thought it was all about the wheelbase.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > would the center of pressure on a production
> > > > > car be somewhere in the hood
> > > > > or
> > > > > > somewhere in the winshield? Meaning is it
> > > > > where there is the most
> > > > > pressure?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Aren't you guys happy I'm working out of my
> > > > > house now? Lurker days are
> > > > > over
> > > > > > !!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > George in DC
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-land-speed@autox.team.net
> > > > > > [mailto:owner-land-speed@autox.team.net]On
> > > > > Behalf Of
> > > > > > FastmetalBDF@aol.com
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 2:05 PM
> > > > > > To: Dale.Clay@mdhelicopters.com;
> > > > > landspeedracer@email.msn.com;
> > > > > > Flowbench@aol.com; lsr_man@yahoo.com;
> > > > > fosterap@flash.net
> > > > > > Cc: kturk@ala.net; land-speed@autox.team.net
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Ballast & Handling
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And EVERYTHING that DOES NOT move
> > > > > HAS to obey the laws
> > > > > > of physics, likewise . If the car encounters
> > > > > yaw, the lengthened
> > > > > wheelbase
> > > > > > multiplies the effect of the air pressure
> > > > > acting upon the leading side of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > nose, increasing the chance of the car
> > > > > getting sideways, the same way as
> > > > > > if you held a ping pong paddle out the window
> > > > > of a car at speed ......
> > > > > > you might be able to hold it somewhat steady
> > > > > at this speed, but not if
> > > > > > it was fastened out on the end of a broom
> > > > > handle, or such .
> > > > > > It is all leverage. As you stated the
> > > > > longer wheelbase does give the
> > > > > > driver a much better chance of making the
> > > > > corrections sooner to
> > > > > > keep it on the straight and narrow . Those
> > > > > long wheelbase cars
> > > > > > reduce the weight on the front tire patch, so
> > > > > all this has to be a
> > > > > > consideration ..... and we' re not even
> > > > > getting into aerodynamics here !
> > > > > > ...... fascinating subject ...... or is that
> > > > > FASTinating ?
> > > > > > bdf
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > > * Dick J *
> > > > * (In East Texas) *
> > > > * # 729 *
> > > > * C/GRS E/STR *
> > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> > > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
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