A point was made that I had not thought of right away.. If you have a
hilborn type injection and a vertex mag and the engine does not shut off
in an accident.. ex throttle linkage jammed part open. what good is an
electrical switch for shutting down the engine? I personally think
whatever this switch does it needs to have the engine stop and not just
disconnect the battery. Perhaps a normally closed relay that will be
connected to the kill switch wire so that when the main switch is in the
run position the relay is open and when off the relay closes and grounds
the mag and stops the engine. I have been at race tracks where the
safety crew had to try to find a way to shut off the engine and it was
not pretty especially if there is a fuel line break on a return line or
the engine is buzzing at 9000 rpm and the safety crew is trying not to
get hit with engine shrapnel...
Dahlgren
SaltyCuda@aol.com wrote:
>
> --part1_e0.fa1560.25d1048a_boundary
>
> There's an argument for two switches!!!!
>
> Hear me out. A location at the rear in a protected, visible spot is good for
> the safety crew. Location 1.
>
> The other argument however, is in the driver's compartment where it can be
> reached by the driver, either directly or with a push pull rod/cable.
> Remember, racing at the salt puts a lot of distance between yourself and the
> safety crew, and quick as they can be, it can be like an eternity before they
> get to you. If your pinned in, and the electric pumps are pumping away, and
> the pump switch is jammed, or shorted. . . need I say more? Location 2.
>
> Let's keep thinking.
>
> Jim
>
> << Glen,
>
> You are correct about varied vehicles, that is why after a long discussion
> during the rules meeting it was decided to leave the rule a bit open.. (I
> know many of you would argue about this not being the best, but after an
> hour...) I have been on the scene of many incidents at Bonneville, El
> Mirage and Muroc. The most scary thing for me as a safety member is to roll
> to the scene and have electric fuel pumps still running with the lines
> ripped off of them, it was fear for both myself and the guy still in the car
> that made me champion this rule.
>
> While the idea of solenoids sounds like an ideal fix, I must agree with the
> comments from the list about failures. After spending 10 years working with
> Aircraft and ground support electrical systems I would not suggest solenoids
> as the answer.
>
> The best idea is the Morse cable used in the pull fashion. Mount the switch
> close to the battery if you can. Keep those good ideas coming!
>
> Mike Manghelli
> SCTA Prez
> Lancaster, CA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Barrett <speedtimer@earthlink.net>
> To: Steve Pitt <steve@seattleconstructioninc.com>
> Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Date: Monday, February 07, 2000 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Cut off switch
>
>
> >The problem with our type of racing is there are not two cars alike. Each
> is as
> >design of its own except for most stock bodied vehicles, all others are
> special
> >construction and require a different approach.
> >Glen
> >
> >Steve Pitt wrote:
> >
> >> A local group involved in vintage sports car racing require emergency
> >> switches on all cars. They don't specifically identify a location but
> say
> >> it should be "easily accessible" and clearly marked. The majority of
> these
> >> cars have the switch mounted at the real because that is usually where
> the
> >> battery is located. I would think that a single location for all cars
> makes
> >> the most sense and that the I.D. marking should be consistent, say a 6"
> (?)
> >> diameter painted red circle around the switch. This would at least
> >> guarantee some consistency in emergency situations.
> >> Steve in rainy, wet Seattle
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: owner-land-speed@autox.team.net
> >> > [mailto:owner-land-speed@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Glen Barrett
> >> > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 4:15 PM
> >> > To: land-speed@autox.team.net
> >> > Subject: Cut off switch
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > One thing all need to remember regardless of where the switch is
> mounted
> >> > and identified with a decal or whatever, a fire or a panel can be torn
> >> > off in an incident and making it difficult to locate. The emergency
> crew
> >> > at the lakes and on the salt spend time in the inspection area to look
> >> > over all of the cars, streamlined bikes and any thing unusual that may
> >> > create a rescue problem.
> >> >
> >> > The big thing that we have to cope with is distance we need to travel
> >> > to the incident as we don't have the man power or equipment that large
> >> > and big budget racing associations have.
> >> >
> >> > The program we have the, Emergency Response Team is a group of regular
> >> > volunteers that work together and learn from all incidents and try to
> >> > incorporate all we can from the experiance into our rescue trailer.
> >> > There is no easy answer to the mounting of a switch or if a tank should
> >> > be in a steel container or the placement of a water tank in or outside
> >> > of the drivers area.
> >> >
> >> > The main thing is to put yourself in the position of the rescue teams
> >> > and the patrols and fire personnel that will be there to extract the
> >> > driver from the vehicle involved in a incident. Just things to think
> >> > about.
> >> > Glen
> >>
>
> --part1_e0.fa1560.25d1048a_boundary
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> Return-Path: <land-speed-owner@autox.team.net>
> Received: from rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.227])
> by air-zd05.mail.aol.com (v67_b1.24) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Feb 2000
> 23:45:13 1900
> Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu (triumph.cs.utah.edu [155.99.188.52]) by
> rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (v67_b1.24) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Feb 2000 23:44:59
> -0500
> Received: (from majordom@localhost)
> by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA03685
> for land-speed-outgoing; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:44:34 -0700 (MST)
> Received: from smtp-out.hughes.net (smtp-out.hughes.net [205.139.35.28])
> by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA03680
> for <land-speed@autox.team.net>; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:44:30 -0700 (MST)
> Received: from mail.hughes.net (mail.hughes.net [205.139.35.24])
> by smtp-out.hughes.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA87822;
> Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:44:25 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from user ([206.97.42.68]) by mail.hughes.net
> (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13727) with SMTP id AAA15489;
> Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:44:25 -0800
> Message-ID: <006701bfe958$1e6829c0$442a61ce@user>
> From: "Mike Manghelli" <mmanghel@hughes.net>
> To: "Glen Barrett" <speedtimer@earthlink.net>,
> "Steve Pitt" <steve@seattleconstructioninc.com>
> Cc: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: Cut off switch
> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 20:45:24 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
> Sender: owner-land-speed@autox.team.net
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: "Mike Manghelli" <mmanghel@hughes.net>
>
> Glen,
>
> You are correct about varied vehicles, that is why after a long discussion
> during the rules meeting it was decided to leave the rule a bit open.. (I
> know many of you would argue about this not being the best, but after an
> hour...) I have been on the scene of many incidents at Bonneville, El
> Mirage and Muroc. The most scary thing for me as a safety member is to roll
> to the scene and have electric fuel pumps still running with the lines
> ripped off of them, it was fear for both myself and the guy still in the car
> that made me champion this rule.
>
> While the idea of solenoids sounds like an ideal fix, I must agree with the
> comments from the list about failures. After spending 10 years working with
> Aircraft and ground support electrical systems I would not suggest solenoids
> as the answer.
>
> The best idea is the Morse cable used in the pull fashion. Mount the switch
> close to the battery if you can. Keep those good ideas coming!
>
> Mike Manghelli
> SCTA Prez
> Lancaster, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Barrett <speedtimer@earthlink.net>
> To: Steve Pitt <steve@seattleconstructioninc.com>
> Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Date: Monday, February 07, 2000 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Cut off switch
>
> >The problem with our type of racing is there are not two cars alike. Each
> is as
> >design of its own except for most stock bodied vehicles, all others are
> special
> >construction and require a different approach.
> >Glen
> >
> >Steve Pitt wrote:
> >
> >> A local group involved in vintage sports car racing require emergency
> >> switches on all cars. They don't specifically identify a location but
> say
> >> it should be "easily accessible" and clearly marked. The majority of
> these
> >> cars have the switch mounted at the real because that is usually where
> the
> >> battery is located. I would think that a single location for all cars
> makes
> >> the most sense and that the I.D. marking should be consistent, say a 6"
> (?)
> >> diameter painted red circle around the switch. This would at least
> >> guarantee some consistency in emergency situations.
> >> Steve in rainy, wet Seattle
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: owner-land-speed@autox.team.net
> >> > [mailto:owner-land-speed@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Glen Barrett
> >> > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 4:15 PM
> >> > To: land-speed@autox.team.net
> >> > Subject: Cut off switch
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > One thing all need to remember regardless of where the switch is
> mounted
> >> > and identified with a decal or whatever, a fire or a panel can be torn
> >> > off in an incident and making it difficult to locate. The emergency
> crew
> >> > at the lakes and on the salt spend time in the inspection area to look
> >> > over all of the cars, streamlined bikes and any thing unusual that may
> >> > create a rescue problem.
> >> >
> >> > The big thing that we have to cope with is distance we need to travel
> >> > to the incident as we don't have the man power or equipment that large
> >> > and big budget racing associations have.
> >> >
> >> > The program we have the, Emergency Response Team is a group of regular
> >> > volunteers that work together and learn from all incidents and try to
> >> > incorporate all we can from the experiance into our rescue trailer.
> >> > There is no easy answer to the mounting of a switch or if a tank should
> >> > be in a steel container or the placement of a water tank in or outside
> >> > of the drivers area.
> >> >
> >> > The main thing is to put yourself in the position of the rescue teams
> >> > and the patrols and fire personnel that will be there to extract the
> >> > driver from the vehicle involved in a incident. Just things to think
> >> > about.
> >> > Glen
>
> --part1_e0.fa1560.25d1048a_boundary--
|