--===============2811295170641610115==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
I wonder if fuel could be entering the float bowl from beneath the seat
body where it screws into the float lid. If you don't have a good seal
there, fuel can continue to enter the float bowl as long as the fuel system
is pressurized. My SU supplier sells a small washer that goes under the
seat and, although I've seen lots of seats installed without washers, they
cleaned up wet/overly rich running in a pair of carbs I worked on
recently. If it's just the rear carburetor that has the issue, I'd be
tempted to switch float lids and see if the problem moves to the front.
On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 10:59=E2=80=AFAM <healeys-request@autox.team.net> w=
rote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube (Michael Salter)
> 2. Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube (Hank Leach)
> 3. Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube (Roland Wilhelmy)
> 4. carb damper (=3D?utf-8?Q?healeymanjim?=3D)
> 5. Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube (richard mayor)
> 6. Re: carb damper (richard mayor)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
> To: Hank Leach <gradea1@charter.net>
> Cc: Healey team <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 15:21:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
> Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.
> In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of carburettor=
,
> fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet.
> The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the float
> chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is
> only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the jet is
> positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into the
> airflow and into the inlet manifold.
> This is all related to Bernoulli's principle
> <https://www.google.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+pri=
nciple>
> which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.
> If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running then the
> mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.
>
> M
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100
>> engines on the web. Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAI=
N
>> TUBES. The *later *engine setups have drain tubes in the lid. This
>> includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans). Also, on these early designs
>> there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672 which has a lower drain =
in
>> the casing up to engine # 139915 (my engine 139563). Of course Moss,
>> etc. only sell the later style products. but some books show the solid
>> float lids and some show vented lids and some show a lid with a drain tu=
be
>> (air vent).
>>
>> So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the
>> float chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned betw=
een
>> the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke =
is
>> pulled that jet hole is lowered to send in, as the British say..."a nea=
t
>> petrol supply" to start the car.
>> Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet int=
o
>> the throttle area and into the manifold. Unless the engine is now turnin=
g
>> and suction from the piston is active, the fuel will run haplessly in th=
e
>> intake manifold and out the drain tube to the ground. So the important
>> procedure in these early systems is turn the key and crank the engine
>> immediately or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube. I'm here
>> testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mode-its not going =
to
>> do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?
>>
>> The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the
>> manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as t=
he
>> Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds l=
ike
>> the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hea=
r
>> the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (fl=
oat
>> bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank
>>
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" <ynotink@msn.com>
>> To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>, "Bob Haskell" <
>> rchaskell@earthlink.net>, "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com>, <
>> gradea1@charter.net>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have to confess I=E2=
=80=99ve modified
>> the induction system on mine (I know, I=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=
=E2=80=99m a little
>> fuzzy on the details. If memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float bo=
wls
>> originally had an open vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. =
The
>> car was built up from several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have
>> been correct. About 20 years ago I built a pair of H6s and installed tho=
se
>> with drain tubes. The car is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary,=
or
>> maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6
>>
>> Bill Lawrence
>> BN1 554
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Hank Leach
>> via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM
>> *To:* Bob Haskell <rchaskell@earthlink.net>; richard mayor <
>> boyracer466@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile floats
>> and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the flo=
at
>> chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each. I do not have these
>> overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location)
>> Instead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which allo=
ws
>> air out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom o=
f
>> the carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:
>>
>> "These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and mos=
t
>> important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displace th=
e
>> air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely manner.
>> Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as they =
do
>> when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will be
>> piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the *fuel could no=
t escape
>> through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor throat into
>> the engine*. With that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will vaporize
>> before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize will make the
>> mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will belch black
>> smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and die."
>>
>> The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls; th=
e
>> overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how B=
ill
>> Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overflows or
>> intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? Trapp=
ed
>> air? Hank
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "Bob Haskell" <rchaskell@earthlink.net>
>> To: <gradea1@charter.net>, "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com>
>> Cc: "healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> Hank,
>>
>> I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not
>> plastic. Supposedly unsinkable.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bob Haskell
>> Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar
>>
>> On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:
>>
>> I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static
>> mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston
>> removed, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or as
>> you say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs together
>> it's a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was
>> made that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I
>> cannot tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the pe=
g
>> on the valve. When held shut by hand its positive.
>>
>> If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pressure on the
>> peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic floats inste=
ad
>> of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float and needl=
e
>> valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will now star=
t
>> leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (next
>> year?) to test that theory.
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com> <boyracer466@gmail.com>
>> To: "Leach Hank" <gradea1@charter.net> <gradea1@charter.net>
>> Cc: "healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>> Hank,
>>
>> If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in the
>> carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube. Not fr=
om
>> the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with this a=
ssumption.
>>
>> The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float
>> chamber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float
>> level is so important. If fuel is flowing out of the jet before the
>> needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your fl=
oat
>> level is set too high. You need to close the float needle valve with th=
e
>> float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and
>> see if that stops the flow. But then you said you tried different
>> settings.
>>
>> Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all the
>> way to the top to close the needle valve? Try a different float. Polish
>> the post. Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting that is
>> not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat. I think t=
hat=E2=80=99s where
>> the problem is.
>>
>> Richard Mayor
>> boyracer466@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys
>> <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>> I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear
>> carburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple
>> design, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is
>> out of center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that
>> would allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.
>>
>> No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean
>> and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and cente=
r
>> jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-anot=
her
>> 4 hour job. Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time. Turn=
on
>> key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.
>>
>> I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many
>> times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leaking=
.
>> I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this is a
>> British Car.
>> Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with
>> carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's tw=
o
>> places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the next leak
>> could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new parts-jet
>> .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which are
>> lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the same =
at
>> top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testing
>> stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done
>> outside in the rain.
>>
>> I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simple
>> brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by forke=
d
>> leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls are
>> equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by t=
he
>> stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows to=
a
>> stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do! Fuel is going out a=
nd
>> down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to measure =
the
>> top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't measure the =
new
>> jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number drill to see if its roun=
d?
>> Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total on them. As far as I kn=
ow
>> these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss India knockoffs.
>>
>> I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb off
>> for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That'=
s
>> not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Hank
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Hank Leach <gradea1@charter.net>
> To: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
> Cc: Healey team <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 21:11:29 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
> Michael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, Where is the
> fuel coming from and what is the cure for the problem? I agree that the
> fuel is "atomized" in the throttle area and that would be the best
> condition to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I
> cannot find the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile
> floats are at the top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are bum. Bill
> Lawrence modified his intakes possibly due to fuel issues? The system on
> this early car (same as yours) is a bit "cruder" than the revised float
> bowl vent system (with no manifold drain?). And, I cannot see anything
> wrong the float setting as presently set.
> The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and the float bowls
> full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of the jet. Float
> valves are closed. Its when the key is on and fuel pressure is applied
> that I am getting the overflow condition. I was hoping that someone else =
on
> the team has had a similar experience. Hank
> --------------------
>
> From: "Michael Salter" <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
> To: "Hank Leach" <gradea1@charter.net>
> Cc: "Healey team" <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Sent: December 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
> Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.
> In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of carburettor=
,
> fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet.
> The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the float
> chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is
> only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the jet is
> positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into the
> airflow and into the inlet manifold.
> This is all related to Bernoulli's principle
> <https://www.google.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+pri=
nciple>
> which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.
> If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running then the
> mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.
>
> M
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100
>> engines on the web. Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAI=
N
>> TUBES. The *later *engine setups have drain tubes in the lid. This
>> includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans). Also, on these early designs
>> there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672 which has a lower drain =
in
>> the casing up to engine # 139915 (my engine 139563). Of course Moss,
>> etc. only sell the later style products. but some books show the solid
>> float lids and some show vented lids and some show a lid with a drain tu=
be
>> (air vent).
>>
>> So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the
>> float chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned betw=
een
>> the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke =
is
>> pulled that jet hole is lowered to send in, as the British say..."a nea=
t
>> petrol supply" to start the car.
>> Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet int=
o
>> the throttle area and into the manifold. Unless the engine is now turnin=
g
>> and suction from the piston is active, the fuel will run haplessly in th=
e
>> intake manifold and out the drain tube to the ground. So the important
>> procedure in these early systems is turn the key and crank the engine
>> immediately or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube. I'm here
>> testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mode-its not going =
to
>> do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?
>>
>> The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the
>> manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as t=
he
>> Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds l=
ike
>> the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hea=
r
>> the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (fl=
oat
>> bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank
>>
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" <ynotink@msn.com>
>> To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>, "Bob Haskell" <
>> rchaskell@earthlink.net>, "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com>, <
>> gradea1@charter.net>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have to confess I=E2=
=80=99ve modified
>> the induction system on mine (I know, I=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=
=E2=80=99m a little
>> fuzzy on the details. If memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float bo=
wls
>> originally had an open vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. =
The
>> car was built up from several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have
>> been correct. About 20 years ago I built a pair of H6s and installed tho=
se
>> with drain tubes. The car is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary,=
or
>> maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6
>>
>> Bill Lawrence
>> BN1 554
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Hank Leach
>> via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM
>> *To:* Bob Haskell <rchaskell@earthlink.net>; richard mayor <
>> boyracer466@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile floats
>> and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the flo=
at
>> chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each. I do not have these
>> overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location)
>> Instead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which allo=
ws
>> air out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom o=
f
>> the carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:
>>
>> "These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and mos=
t
>> important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displace th=
e
>> air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely manner.
>> Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as they =
do
>> when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will be
>> piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the *fuel could no=
t escape
>> through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor throat into
>> the engine*. With that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will vaporize
>> before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize will make the
>> mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will belch black
>> smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and die."
>>
>> The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls; th=
e
>> overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how B=
ill
>> Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overflows or
>> intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? Trapp=
ed
>> air? Hank
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "Bob Haskell" <rchaskell@earthlink.net>
>> To: <gradea1@charter.net>, "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com>
>> Cc: "healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> Hank,
>>
>> I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not
>> plastic. Supposedly unsinkable.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bob Haskell
>> Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar
>>
>> On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:
>>
>> I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static
>> mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston
>> removed, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or as
>> you say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs together
>> it's a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was
>> made that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I
>> cannot tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the pe=
g
>> on the valve. When held shut by hand its positive.
>>
>> If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pressure on the
>> peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic floats inste=
ad
>> of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float and needl=
e
>> valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will now star=
t
>> leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (next
>> year?) to test that theory.
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com> <boyracer466@gmail.com>
>> To: "Leach Hank" <gradea1@charter.net> <gradea1@charter.net>
>> Cc: "healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>> Hank,
>>
>> If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in the
>> carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube. Not fr=
om
>> the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with this a=
ssumption.
>>
>> The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float
>> chamber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float
>> level is so important. If fuel is flowing out of the jet before the
>> needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your fl=
oat
>> level is set too high. You need to close the float needle valve with th=
e
>> float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and
>> see if that stops the flow. But then you said you tried different
>> settings.
>>
>> Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all the
>> way to the top to close the needle valve? Try a different float. Polish
>> the post. Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting that is
>> not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat. I think t=
hat=E2=80=99s where
>> the problem is.
>>
>> Richard Mayor
>> boyracer466@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys
>> <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>> I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear
>> carburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple
>> design, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is
>> out of center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that
>> would allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.
>>
>> No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean
>> and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and cente=
r
>> jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-anot=
her
>> 4 hour job. Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time. Turn=
on
>> key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.
>>
>> I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many
>> times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leaking=
.
>> I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this is a
>> British Car.
>> Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with
>> carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's tw=
o
>> places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the next leak
>> could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new parts-jet
>> .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which are
>> lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the same =
at
>> top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testing
>> stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done
>> outside in the rain.
>>
>> I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simple
>> brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by forke=
d
>> leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls are
>> equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by t=
he
>> stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows to=
a
>> stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do! Fuel is going out a=
nd
>> down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to measure =
the
>> top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't measure the =
new
>> jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number drill to see if its roun=
d?
>> Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total on them. As far as I kn=
ow
>> these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss India knockoffs.
>>
>> I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb off
>> for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That'=
s
>> not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Hank
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>
>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.com
>>
>>
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>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive/healeys
>> Healeys@autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
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ell@earthlink.net
>>
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>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
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>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
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>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Roland Wilhelmy <sentenac.rw@gmail.com>
> To: gradea1@charter.net
> Cc: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>, Healey team <
> healeys@autox.team.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 16:58:08 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>
> My BN1 #724, engine number 139756, has no float bowl drain tubes, just th=
e
> red notched washer and chrome vent at the top screw . I have never had t=
he
> problems that you report. The floats are original. I cleaned and rebuil=
t
> with a Moss kit. If one of my carbs worked right and one did not, after
> replacing all rebuild able parts, I would replace the malfunctioning carb=
.
> If that fixes things you can explore the faulty carb at leisure. If it
> doesn't, then the rear carb wasn't the problem.
> -Roland
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024, 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Michael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, Where is the
>> fuel coming from and what is the cure for the problem? I agree that the
>> fuel is "atomized" in the throttle area and that would be the best
>> condition to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I
>> cannot find the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile
>> floats are at the top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are bum. Bil=
l
>> Lawrence modified his intakes possibly due to fuel issues? The system o=
n
>> this early car (same as yours) is a bit "cruder" than the revised float
>> bowl vent system (with no manifold drain?). And, I cannot see anything
>> wrong the float setting as presently set.
>> The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and the float bowls
>> full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of the jet. Float
>> valves are closed. Its when the key is on and fuel pressure is applied
>> that I am getting the overflow condition. I was hoping that someone else=
on
>> the team has had a similar experience. Hank
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "Michael Salter" <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>> To: "Hank Leach" <gradea1@charter.net>
>> Cc: "Healey team" <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: December 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>> Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.
>> In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of
>> carburettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet.
>> The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the float
>> chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is
>> only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the jet is
>> positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into the
>> airflow and into the inlet manifold.
>> This is all related to Bernoulli's principle
>> <https://www.google.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+pr=
inciple>
>> which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.
>> If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running then the
>> mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.
>>
>> M
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <
>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100
>>> engines on the web. Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRA=
IN
>>> TUBES. The *later *engine setups have drain tubes in the lid. This
>>> includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans). Also, on these early design=
s
>>> there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672 which has a lower drain=
in
>>> the casing up to engine # 139915 (my engine 139563). Of course Moss,
>>> etc. only sell the later style products. but some books show the solid
>>> float lids and some show vented lids and some show a lid with a drain t=
ube
>>> (air vent).
>>>
>>> So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the
>>> float chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned bet=
ween
>>> the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke=
is
>>> pulled that jet hole is lowered to send in, as the British say..."a ne=
at
>>> petrol supply" to start the car.
>>> Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet
>>> into the throttle area and into the manifold. Unless the engine is now
>>> turning and suction from the piston is active, the fuel will run
>>> haplessly in the intake manifold and out the drain tube to the ground. =
So
>>> the important procedure in these early systems is turn the key and cran=
k
>>> the engine immediately or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube.
>>> I'm here testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mode-its =
not
>>> going to do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?
>>>
>>> The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the
>>> manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as =
the
>>> Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds =
like
>>> the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you he=
ar
>>> the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (f=
loat
>>> bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" <ynotink@msn.com>
>>> To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>, "Bob Haskell" <
>>> rchaskell@earthlink.net>, "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com>, <
>>> gradea1@charter.net>
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>>
>>> I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have to confess I=E2=
=80=99ve modified
>>> the induction system on mine (I know, I=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=
=E2=80=99m a little
>>> fuzzy on the details. If memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float b=
owls
>>> originally had an open vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes.=
The
>>> car was built up from several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not hav=
e
>>> been correct. About 20 years ago I built a pair of H6s and installed th=
ose
>>> with drain tubes. The car is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary=
, or
>>> maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6
>>>
>>> Bill Lawrence
>>> BN1 554
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Hank
>>> Leach via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM
>>> *To:* Bob Haskell <rchaskell@earthlink.net>; richard mayor <
>>> boyracer466@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>>
>>> Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile float=
s
>>> and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the fl=
oat
>>> chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each. I do not have these
>>> overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location)
>>> Instead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which all=
ows
>>> air out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom =
of
>>> the carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:
>>>
>>> "These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and
>>> most important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displ=
ace
>>> the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely
>>> manner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open =
(as
>>> they do when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel =
will
>>> be piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the *fuel coul=
d not
>>> escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor thr=
oat
>>> into the engine*. With that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will
>>> vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize will =
make
>>> the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will belch b=
lack
>>> smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and die."
>>>
>>> The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls;
>>> the overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder =
how
>>> Bill Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overfl=
ows
>>> or intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima?
>>> Trapped air? Hank
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> From: "Bob Haskell" <rchaskell@earthlink.net>
>>> To: <gradea1@charter.net>, "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: "healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>>
>>> Hank,
>>>
>>> I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not
>>> plastic. Supposedly unsinkable.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Bob Haskell
>>> Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar
>>>
>>> On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:
>>>
>>> I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static
>>> mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston
>>> removed, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or a=
s
>>> you say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs togethe=
r
>>> it's a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that wa=
s
>>> made that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I
>>> cannot tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the p=
eg
>>> on the valve. When held shut by hand its positive.
>>>
>>> If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pressure on the
>>> peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic floats inst=
ead
>>> of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float and need=
le
>>> valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will now sta=
rt
>>> leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (next
>>> year?) to test that theory.
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> From: "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com> <boyracer466@gmail.com>
>>> To: "Leach Hank" <gradea1@charter.net> <gradea1@charter.net>
>>> Cc: "healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>> Hank,
>>>
>>> If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in the
>>> carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube. Not f=
rom
>>> the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with this =
assumption.
>>>
>>> The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float
>>> chamber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float
>>> level is so important. If fuel is flowing out of the jet before the
>>> needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your f=
loat
>>> level is set too high. You need to close the float needle valve with t=
he
>>> float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and
>>> see if that stops the flow. But then you said you tried different
>>> settings.
>>>
>>> Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all th=
e
>>> way to the top to close the needle valve? Try a different float. Polis=
h
>>> the post. Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting that i=
s
>>> not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat. I think =
that=E2=80=99s where
>>> the problem is.
>>>
>>> Richard Mayor
>>> boyracer466@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys
>>> <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear
>>> carburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple
>>> design, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet i=
s
>>> out of center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that
>>> would allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.
>>>
>>> No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean
>>> and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and cent=
er
>>> jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-ano=
ther
>>> 4 hour job. Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time. Tur=
n on
>>> key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.
>>>
>>> I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many
>>> times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leakin=
g.
>>> I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this is =
a
>>> British Car.
>>> Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with
>>> carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's t=
wo
>>> places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the next leak
>>> could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new parts-je=
t
>>> .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which ar=
e
>>> lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the same=
at
>>> top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testing
>>> stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done
>>> outside in the rain.
>>>
>>> I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simple
>>> brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by fork=
ed
>>> leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls are
>>> equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by =
the
>>> stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows t=
o a
>>> stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do! Fuel is going out =
and
>>> down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to measure=
the
>>> top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't measure the=
new
>>> jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number drill to see if its rou=
nd?
>>> Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total on them. As far as I k=
now
>>> these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss India knockoffs.
>>>
>>> I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb off
>>> for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That=
's
>>> not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Han=
k
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>>
>>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive/healeys
>>> Healeys@autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/rchas=
kell@earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>>
>>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: healeymanjim <healeymanjim@hansencc.net>
> To: "healeys@autox.team.net" <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:02:20 -0800
> Subject: [Healeys] carb damper
> ran into something have not seen before. cleaning the carbs on an MGTC
> and discovered there is no damper. there is a plastic cap and a 3/16 hol=
e
> approx 1/4 inch deep in top of piston rod. Moss shows a damper and so do=
es
> the workshop manual. any ideas what i have here?
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: richard mayor <boyracer466@gmail.com>
> To: Roland Wilhelmy <sentenac.rw@gmail.com>
> Cc: Leach Hank <gradea1@charter.net>, healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:45:44 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
> Hank, Here is the Moss Motors description of the need for the over-flow
> drain pipes (in the 100M reference):
>
> These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and most
> important) they allow the fuel
> coming into the float bowl to displace the air in there so the fuel can
> reach its correct level in a timely
> manner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (a=
s
> they do when a bit of grit i
> trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will be piped out and down =E2=
=80=93 away
> from the engine. If the fuel
> could not escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the
> carburetor throat into the engine. With
> that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will vaporize before the spark
> plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize
> will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will
> belch black smoke out the
> tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and die. The liquid fuel that
> reaches the cylinders will flush the oil
> off the cylinder walls and wind up in the crankcase. If it happens
> frequently, the loss of the oil film on the
> cylinder walls can cause premature wear. With gas in the sump, the oil is
> being diluted and the oil needs
> to be drained and replaced as soon as practical. We have heard that under
> the right conditions, gasoline
> vapors can be ignited in the crankcase with spectacular results, but we
> are still waiting for pictures.
>
> Richard Mayor
> boyracer466@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2024, at 4:58=E2=80=AFPM, Roland Wilhelmy <sentenac.rw@gmail.c=
om>
> wrote:
>
> My BN1 #724, engine number 139756, has no float bowl drain tubes, just th=
e
> red notched washer and chrome vent at the top screw . I have never had t=
he
> problems that you report. The floats are original. I cleaned and rebuil=
t
> with a Moss kit. If one of my carbs worked right and one did not, after
> replacing all rebuild able parts, I would replace the malfunctioning carb=
.
> If that fixes things you can explore the faulty carb at leisure. If it
> doesn't, then the rear carb wasn't the problem.
> -Roland
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024, 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Michael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, Where is the
>> fuel coming from and what is the cure for the problem? I agree that the
>> fuel is "atomized" in the throttle area and that would be the best
>> condition to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I
>> cannot find the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile
>> floats are at the top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are bum. Bil=
l
>> Lawrence modified his intakes possibly due to fuel issues? The system o=
n
>> this early car (same as yours) is a bit "cruder" than the revised float
>> bowl vent system (with no manifold drain?). And, I cannot see anything
>> wrong the float setting as presently set.
>> The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and the float bowls
>> full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of the jet. Float
>> valves are closed. Its when the key is on and fuel pressure is applied
>> that I am getting the overflow condition. I was hoping that someone else=
on
>> the team has had a similar experience. Hank
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "Michael Salter" <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>> To: "Hank Leach" <gradea1@charter.net>
>> Cc: "Healey team" <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: December 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>> Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.
>> In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of
>> carburettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet.
>> The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the float
>> chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is
>> only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the jet is
>> positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into the
>> airflow and into the inlet manifold.
>> This is all related to Bernoulli's principle
>> <https://www.google.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+pr=
inciple>
>> which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.
>> If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running then the
>> mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.
>>
>> M
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <
>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100
>>> engines on the web. Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRA=
IN
>>> TUBES. The *later *engine setups have drain tubes in the lid. This
>>> includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans). Also, on these early design=
s
>>> there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672 which has a lower drain=
in
>>> the casing up to engine # 139915 (my engine 139563). Of course Moss,
>>> etc. only sell the later style products. but some books show the solid
>>> float lids and some show vented lids and some show a lid with a drain t=
ube
>>> (air vent).
>>>
>>> So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the
>>> float chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned bet=
ween
>>> the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke=
is
>>> pulled that jet hole is lowered to send in, as the British say..."a ne=
at
>>> petrol supply" to start the car.
>>> Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet
>>> into the throttle area and into the manifold. Unless the engine is now
>>> turning and suction from the piston is active, the fuel will run
>>> haplessly in the intake manifold and out the drain tube to the ground. =
So
>>> the important procedure in these early systems is turn the key and cran=
k
>>> the engine immediately or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube.
>>> I'm here testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mode-its =
not
>>> going to do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?
>>>
>>> The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the
>>> manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as =
the
>>> Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds =
like
>>> the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you he=
ar
>>> the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (f=
loat
>>> bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" <ynotink@msn.com>
>>> To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>, "Bob Haskell" <
>>> rchaskell@earthlink.net>, "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com>, <
>>> gradea1@charter.net>
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>>
>>> I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have to confess I=E2=
=80=99ve modified
>>> the induction system on mine (I know, I=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=
=E2=80=99m a little
>>> fuzzy on the details. If memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float b=
owls
>>> originally had an open vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes.=
The
>>> car was built up from several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not hav=
e
>>> been correct. About 20 years ago I built a pair of H6s and installed th=
ose
>>> with drain tubes. The car is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary=
, or
>>> maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6
>>>
>>> Bill Lawrence
>>> BN1 554
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Hank
>>> Leach via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM
>>> *To:* Bob Haskell <rchaskell@earthlink.net>; richard mayor <
>>> boyracer466@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>>
>>> Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile float=
s
>>> and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the fl=
oat
>>> chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each. I do not have these
>>> overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location)
>>> Instead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which all=
ows
>>> air out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom =
of
>>> the carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:
>>>
>>> "These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and
>>> most important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displ=
ace
>>> the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely
>>> manner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open =
(as
>>> they do when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel =
will
>>> be piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the *fuel coul=
d not
>>> escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor thr=
oat
>>> into the engine*. With that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will
>>> vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize will =
make
>>> the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will belch b=
lack
>>> smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and die."
>>>
>>> The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls;
>>> the overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder =
how
>>> Bill Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overfl=
ows
>>> or intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima?
>>> Trapped air? Hank
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> From: "Bob Haskell" <rchaskell@earthlink.net>
>>> To: <gradea1@charter.net>, "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: "healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>>
>>> Hank,
>>>
>>> I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not
>>> plastic. Supposedly unsinkable.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Bob Haskell
>>> Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar
>>>
>>> On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:
>>>
>>> I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static
>>> mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston
>>> removed, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or a=
s
>>> you say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs togethe=
r
>>> it's a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that wa=
s
>>> made that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I
>>> cannot tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the p=
eg
>>> on the valve. When held shut by hand its positive.
>>>
>>> If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pressure on the
>>> peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic floats inst=
ead
>>> of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float and need=
le
>>> valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will now sta=
rt
>>> leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (next
>>> year?) to test that theory.
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> From: "richard mayor" <boyracer466@gmail.com> <boyracer466@gmail.com>
>>> To: "Leach Hank" <gradea1@charter.net> <gradea1@charter.net>
>>> Cc: "healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>> Hank,
>>>
>>> If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in the
>>> carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube. Not f=
rom
>>> the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with this =
assumption.
>>>
>>> The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float
>>> chamber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float
>>> level is so important. If fuel is flowing out of the jet before the
>>> needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your f=
loat
>>> level is set too high. You need to close the float needle valve with t=
he
>>> float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and
>>> see if that stops the flow. But then you said you tried different
>>> settings.
>>>
>>> Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all th=
e
>>> way to the top to close the needle valve? Try a different float. Polis=
h
>>> the post. Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting that i=
s
>>> not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat. I think =
that=E2=80=99s where
>>> the problem is.
>>>
>>> Richard Mayor
>>> boyracer466@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys
>>> <healeys@autox.team.net> <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear
>>> carburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple
>>> design, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet i=
s
>>> out of center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that
>>> would allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.
>>>
>>> No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean
>>> and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and cent=
er
>>> jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-ano=
ther
>>> 4 hour job. Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time. Tur=
n on
>>> key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.
>>>
>>> I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many
>>> times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leakin=
g.
>>> I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this is =
a
>>> British Car.
>>> Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with
>>> carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's t=
wo
>>> places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the next leak
>>> could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new parts-je=
t
>>> .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which ar=
e
>>> lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the same=
at
>>> top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testing
>>> stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done
>>> outside in the rain.
>>>
>>> I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simple
>>> brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by fork=
ed
>>> leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls are
>>> equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by =
the
>>> stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows t=
o a
>>> stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do! Fuel is going out =
and
>>> down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to measure=
the
>>> top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't measure the=
new
>>> jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number drill to see if its rou=
nd?
>>> Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total on them. As far as I k=
now
>>> these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss India knockoffs.
>>>
>>> I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb off
>>> for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That=
's
>>> not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Han=
k
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
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>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: richard mayor <boyracer466@gmail.com>
> To: healeymanjim <healeymanjim@hansencc.net>
> Cc: healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:56:44 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] carb damper
> On occasion I have seen dampers with plastic caps that have the steel ro=
d
> protruding through the top of the cap. This is caused when the engine ha=
s
> backfired through the carburetors and the piston and damper are driven
> upwards. This drives the damper rod through the plastic cap. You will
> never see this with the dampers with brass caps.
>
> I suspect this is what started the issue with your damper before the
> previous owner made it even worse.
>
> Richard Mayor
> boyracer466@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2024, at 9:02=E2=80=AFAM, healeymanjim via Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> ran into something have not seen before. cleaning the carbs on an MGTC
> and discovered there is no damper. there is a plastic cap and a 3/16 hol=
e
> approx 1/4 inch deep in top of piston rod. Moss shows a damper and so do=
es
> the workshop manual. any ideas what i have here?
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>
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>
> archives: http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>
--00000000000003d010062a36b265
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain t=
ube</span><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large">=
<span style=3D"font-size:small"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-size:large"><span style=3D"font-size:small">I wonder if fu=
el could be entering the float bowl from beneath=C2=A0the seat body where i=
t screws into the float lid.=C2=A0 If you don't have a good seal there,=
fuel can continue to enter the=C2=A0float bowl as long as the fuel system =
is pressurized.=C2=A0 My SU supplier sells a small washer that goes under t=
he seat and, although I've seen lots of seats installed without washers=
, they cleaned up wet/overly rich running in a pair of carbs I worked on re=
cently.=C2=A0 If it's just the rear carburetor that has the issue, I=
9;d be tempted to switch float lids and see if the problem moves to the fro=
nt.=C2=A0=C2=A0</span></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote=
_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 24, 2024 at 1=
0:59=E2=80=AFAM <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-request@autox.team.net";>heale=
ys-request@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Healeys mailing list submissions to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listin=
fo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mail=
man/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:healeys-request@autox.team.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank">healeys-request@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:healeys-owner@autox.team.net"=
target=3D"_blank">healeys-owner@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Healeys digest..."<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube (Michael Salter=
)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube (Hank Leach)<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A03. Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube (Roland Wilhelm=
y)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A04. carb damper (=3D?utf-8?Q?healeymanjim?=3D)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A05. Re: overflowing fuel into intake drain tube (richard mayor)=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A06. Re: carb damper (richard mayor)<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0Michael S=
alter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">mich=
aelsalter@gmail.com</a>><br>To:=C2=A0Hank Leach <<a href=3D"mailto:gr=
adea1@charter.net" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@charter.net</a>><br>Cc:=C2=
=A0Healey team <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Mon, 23 Dec =
2024 15:21:41 -0500<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into in=
take drain tube<br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Sorry Hank but I think you hav=
e that wrong.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
sans-serif;font-size:small">In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every=
other type of carburettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet. <br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-=
size:small">The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the f=
loat chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It =
is only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where th=
e jet is positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into=
the airflow and into the inlet manifold. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">This is all re=
lated to <a href=3D"https://www.google.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&=
q=3DBernoulli%27s+principle" target=3D"_blank">Bernoulli's principle</a=
> which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">If fue=
l is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running then the mechanis=
m controlling the float level is not operating correctly.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif=
;font-size:small">M<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank =
Leach via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_=
blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a b=
unch of photos of 1953 100 engines on the web.=C2=A0 Many are configured as=
mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAIN TUBES.=C2=A0 The <em>later </em>engine setup=
s have drain tubes in the lid. This includes the cars using H6 carbs (Leman=
s).=C2=A0 Also, on these early designs there is a different carb adaptor. P=
art 1B1672=C2=A0 which has a lower drain in the casing<span style=3D"text-d=
ecoration:underline"> up to engine # 139915</span> (my engine 139563). Of c=
ourse Moss, etc. only sell the later style products. but some books show th=
e solid float lids and some show vented lids and some show a lid with a dra=
in tube (air vent).</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the f=
loat chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned between =
the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke is =
pulled that jet hole=C2=A0 is lowered to send in, as the British say...&quo=
t;a neat petrol supply" to start the car.</div>
<div>Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet i=
nto the throttle area and into the manifold. <span style=3D"text-decoration=
:underline">Unless the engine is now turning</span> and suction from the pi=
ston is active, the fuel will run haplessly in the intake manifold and out =
the drain tube to the ground. So the important procedure in these early sys=
tems is turn the key and crank the engine <span style=3D"text-decoration:un=
derline">immediately</span> or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube.=
=C2=A0 I'm here testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mo=
de-its not going to do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the =
manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as the =
Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds like=
the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hear =
the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (float=
bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:ynotink@msn.com"; target=3D"_blank">ynotink@msn.com</a=
>> <br>To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <<a href=3D"mailto:heal=
eys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>, "=
;Bob Haskell" <<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>>, "richard mayor" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.c=
om</a>>, <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank">gr=
adea1@charter.net</a>> <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST <br>Su=
bject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube </div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have=
to confess I=E2=80=99ve modified the induction system on mine (I know, I=
=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=E2=80=99m a little fuzzy on the details. If=
memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float bowls originally had an open =
vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. The car was built up from =
several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have been correct. About 20 y=
ears ago I built a pair of H6s and installed those with drain tubes. The ca=
r is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary, or maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6=
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">Bill Lawrence</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">BN1 554</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-181060955261783379m_-6618822986480632876divRplyFwdMsg"><stron=
g>From:</strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> on behalf of H=
ank Leach via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=
=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>Sent:</strong> Monday=
, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Bob Haskell <<a href=
=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; target=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.n=
et</a>>; richard mayor <<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; targ=
et=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>><br><strong>Cc:</strong> healeys=
<<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys@au=
tox.team.net</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Healeys] overflowing=
fuel into intake drain tube
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile floa=
ts and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the flo=
at chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each.=C2=A0 I do not have thes=
e overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location) I=
nstead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which allows a=
ir out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom of th=
e carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>"These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (=
and most important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displ=
ace the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely ma=
nner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as th=
ey do when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will b=
e piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the <strong>fuel co=
uld not escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor=
throat into the engine</strong>. With that much liquid gasoline, not all o=
f it will vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize=
will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will =
belch black smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and di=
e."</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls; =
the overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how =
Bill Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overfl=
ows or intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? T=
rapped air? Hank</div>
<div>--------------------=C2=A0<br><br>From: "Bob Haskell" <<a=
href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; target=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earthl=
ink.net</a>> <br>To: <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=
=3D"_blank">gradea1@charter.net</a>>, "richard mayor" <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.co=
m</a>> <br>Cc: "healeys" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.t=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> <br>Sent: Decembe=
r 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into =
intake drain tube</div>
<p>Hank,</p>
<p>I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not =
plastic.=C2=A0 Supposedly unsinkable.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<pre>Bob Haskell
Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar</pre>
<div>On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div>I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static =
mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston remove=
d, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or as you=
say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs together it=
9;s a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was mad=
e that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I cannot=
tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the peg on the =
valve. When held shut by hand its positive.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pres=
sure on the peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic flo=
ats instead of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float =
and needle valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will =
now start leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (=
next year?) to test that theory.<br>-------------------- <br><br>From: &quo=
t;richard mayor" <a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_b=
lank"> <boyracer466@gmail.com></a> <br>To: "Leach Hank" <a =
href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank"> <gradea1@charter.=
net></a> <br>Cc: "healeys" <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.tea=
m.net" target=3D"_blank"> <healeys@autox.team.net></a> <br>Sent: Dece=
mber 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel in=
to intake drain tube <br>Hank,</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in th=
e carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube.=C2=A0 No=
t from the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with th=
is assumption.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float ch=
amber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float level=
is so important.=C2=A0 If fuel is flowing out of =C2=A0the jet before the =
needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your float=
level is set too high.=C2=A0 You need to close the float needle valve with=
the float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and see if that stops the flow.=C2=A0 But then you said you tried di=
fferent settings.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all t=
he way to the top to close the needle valve?=C2=A0 Try a different float. P=
olish the post.=C2=A0 Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting=
that is not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat.=C2=
=A0 I think that=E2=80=99s where the problem is.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br id=3D"m_-181060955261783379m_-6618822986480632876x_lineBreakAtBegi=
nningOfMessage">
<div>
<div>Richard Mayor</div>
<div><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">boyracer466=
@gmail.com</a></div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote>
<div>On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys <a href=
=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank"> <healeys@autox.tea=
m.net></a> wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>=C2=A0I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear c=
arburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple desi=
gn, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is out of=
center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that would=
allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean=
and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and center =
jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-another=
4 hour job.=C2=A0 Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time.=C2=
=A0 Turn on key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many t=
imes-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leaking=
.=C2=A0 I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this=
is a British Car.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with =
carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's t=
wo places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the n=
ext leak could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new par=
ts-jet .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which=
are lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the sam=
e at top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testin=
g stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done out=
side in the rain.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simp=
le brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by forke=
d leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls =
are equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by =
the stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows t=
o a stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do!=C2=A0 Fuel is going=
out and down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to me=
asure the top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't m=
easure the new jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number dr=
ill to see if its round? Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total o=
n them. As far as I know these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss In=
dia knockoffs.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb of=
f for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That&#=
39;s not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Ha=
nk</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote></div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0Hank Leac=
h <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank">gradea1@char=
ter.net</a>><br>To:=C2=A0Michael Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsal=
ter@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc:=C2=
=A0Healey team <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Mon, 23 Dec =
2024 21:11:29 +0000<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into in=
take drain tube<br><div>Michael-that is why I asked the question in the beg=
inning, Where is the fuel coming from and what is the cure for the problem?=
I agree that the fuel is "atomized" in the throttle area and tha=
t would be the best condition to send it to the engine but this car is dump=
ing fuel and I cannot find the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested light=
er nitrile floats are at the top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are =
bum. Bill Lawrence modified his intakes possibly due to fuel issues?=C2=A0 =
The system on this early car (same as yours) is a bit "cruder" th=
an the revised float bowl vent system (with no manifold drain?). And, I can=
not see anything wrong the float setting as presently set.</div>
<div>The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and the float bowl=
s full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of the jet. Float va=
lves are closed.=C2=A0 Its when the key is on and fuel pressure is applied =
that I am getting the overflow condition. I was hoping that someone else on=
the team has had a similar experience. Hank<br>-------------------- <br><b=
r>From: "Michael Salter" <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> <br>To: "Hank=
Leach" <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank">g=
radea1@charter.net</a>> <br>Cc: "Healey team" <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:healeys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>&=
gt; <br>Sent: December 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] =
overflowing fuel into intake drain tube </div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of carb=
urettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet. </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the floa=
t chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is =
only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the j=
et is positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into th=
e airflow and into the inlet manifold. </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">This is all related to <a href=3D"https://www.google.com/search?cl=
ient=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+principle" target=3D"_blank">Berno=
ulli's principle</a> which is the basis upon which all carburettors wor=
k.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running th=
en the mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.</d=
iv>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">M</div>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leac=
h via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100 en=
gines on the web.=C2=A0 Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAI=
N TUBES.=C2=A0 The <em>later </em>engine setups have drain tubes in the lid=
. This includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans).=C2=A0 Also, on these earl=
y designs there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672=C2=A0 which has a =
lower drain in the casing<span style=3D"text-decoration:underline"> up to e=
ngine # 139915</span> (my engine 139563). Of course Moss, etc. only sell th=
e later style products. but some books show the solid float lids and some s=
how vented lids and some show a lid with a drain tube (air vent).</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the f=
loat chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned between =
the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke is =
pulled that jet hole=C2=A0 is lowered to send in, as the British say...&quo=
t;a neat petrol supply" to start the car.</div>
<div>Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet i=
nto the throttle area and into the manifold. <span style=3D"text-decoration=
:underline">Unless the engine is now turning</span> and suction from the pi=
ston is active, the fuel will run haplessly in the intake manifold and out =
the drain tube to the ground. So the important procedure in these early sys=
tems is turn the key and crank the engine <span style=3D"text-decoration:un=
derline">immediately</span> or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube.=
=C2=A0 I'm here testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mo=
de-its not going to do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the =
manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as the =
Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds like=
the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hear =
the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (float=
bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:ynotink@msn.com"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">y=
notink@msn.com</a>> <br>To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">hea=
leys@autox.team.net</a>>, "Bob Haskell" <<a href=3D"mailto:=
rchaskell@earthlink.net" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earth=
link.net</a>>, "richard mayor" <<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer4=
66@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;, <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"=
_blank">gradea1@charter.net</a>> <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM =
PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube</div=
>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have=
to confess I=E2=80=99ve modified the induction system on mine (I know, I=
=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=E2=80=99m a little fuzzy on the details. If=
memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float bowls originally had an open =
vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. The car was built up from =
several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have been correct. About 20 y=
ears ago I built a pair of H6s and installed those with drain tubes. The ca=
r is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary, or maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6=
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">Bill Lawrence</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">BN1 554</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-181060955261783379m_-6618822986480632876divRplyFwdMsg"><stron=
g>From:</strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.n=
et" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>&g=
t; on behalf of Hank Leach via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.=
team.net" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>=
<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM<br><strong>To:=
</strong> Bob Haskell <<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; rel=3D=
"noopener" target=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>>; richard mayor=
<<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_b=
lank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>><br><strong>Cc:</strong> healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">h=
ealeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Healeys] ov=
erflowing fuel into intake drain tube
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile floa=
ts and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the flo=
at chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each.=C2=A0 I do not have thes=
e overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location) I=
nstead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which allows a=
ir out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom of th=
e carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>"These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (=
and most important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displ=
ace the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely ma=
nner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as th=
ey do when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will b=
e piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the <strong>fuel co=
uld not escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor=
throat into the engine</strong>. With that much liquid gasoline, not all o=
f it will vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize=
will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will =
belch black smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and di=
e."</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls; =
the overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how =
Bill Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overfl=
ows or intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? T=
rapped air? Hank</div>
<div>--------------------=C2=A0<br><br>From: "Bob Haskell" <<a=
href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank"=
>rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>> <br>To: <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@char=
ter.net" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@charter.net</a>>, &q=
uot;richard mayor" <<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D=
"noopener" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>> <br>Cc: "he=
aleys" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener" =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> <br>Sent: December 22, 202=
4 at 4:28 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake dr=
ain tube</div>
<p>Hank,</p>
<p>I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not =
plastic.=C2=A0 Supposedly unsinkable.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<pre>Bob Haskell
Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar</pre>
<div>On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div>I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static =
mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston remove=
d, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or as you=
say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs together it=
9;s a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was mad=
e that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I cannot=
tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the peg on the =
valve. When held shut by hand its positive.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pres=
sure on the peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic flo=
ats instead of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float =
and needle valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will =
now start leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (=
next year?) to test that theory.<br>-------------------- <br><br>From: &quo=
t;richard mayor" <a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noope=
ner" target=3D"_blank"> <boyracer466@gmail.com></a> <br>To: "Lea=
ch Hank" <a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; rel=3D"noopener" targe=
t=3D"_blank"> <gradea1@charter.net></a> <br>Cc: "healeys" <=
a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank"=
> <healeys@autox.team.net></a> <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM=
PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube <br=
>Hank,</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in th=
e carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube.=C2=A0 No=
t from the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with th=
is assumption.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float ch=
amber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float level=
is so important.=C2=A0 If fuel is flowing out of =C2=A0the jet before the =
needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your float=
level is set too high.=C2=A0 You need to close the float needle valve with=
the float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and see if that stops the flow.=C2=A0 But then you said you tried di=
fferent settings.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all t=
he way to the top to close the needle valve?=C2=A0 Try a different float. P=
olish the post.=C2=A0 Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting=
that is not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat.=C2=
=A0 I think that=E2=80=99s where the problem is.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br id=3D"m_-181060955261783379m_-6618822986480632876x_lineBreakAtBegi=
nningOfMessage">
<div>
<div>Richard Mayor</div>
<div><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_b=
lank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a></div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote>
<div>On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys <a href=
=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank"> <=
healeys@autox.team.net></a> wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>=C2=A0I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear c=
arburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple desi=
gn, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is out of=
center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that would=
allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean=
and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and center =
jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-another=
4 hour job.=C2=A0 Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time.=C2=
=A0 Turn on key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many t=
imes-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leaking=
.=C2=A0 I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this=
is a British Car.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with =
carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's t=
wo places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the n=
ext leak could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new par=
ts-jet .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which=
are lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the sam=
e at top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testin=
g stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done out=
side in the rain.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simp=
le brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by forke=
d leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls =
are equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by =
the stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows t=
o a stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do!=C2=A0 Fuel is going=
out and down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to me=
asure the top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't m=
easure the new jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number dr=
ill to see if its round? Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total o=
n them. As far as I know these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss In=
dia knockoffs.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb of=
f for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That&#=
39;s not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Ha=
nk</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0Roland Wi=
lhelmy <<a href=3D"mailto:sentenac.rw@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">sente=
nac.rw@gmail.com</a>><br>To:=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"=
target=3D"_blank">gradea1@charter.net</a><br>Cc:=C2=A0Michael Salter <<=
a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@g=
mail.com</a>>, Healey team <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"=
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=
=A0Mon, 23 Dec 2024 16:58:08 -0800<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Healeys] overflowi=
ng fuel into intake drain tube<br><p dir=3D"ltr">My BN1 #724, engine number=
139756, has no float bowl drain tubes, just the red notched washer and chr=
ome vent at the top screw .=C2=A0 I have never had the problems that you re=
port.=C2=A0 The floats are original.=C2=A0 I cleaned and rebuilt with a Mos=
s kit.=C2=A0 If one of my carbs worked right and one did not, after replaci=
ng all rebuild able parts, I would replace the malfunctioning carb.=C2=A0 I=
f that fixes things you can explore the faulty carb at leisure.=C2=A0 If it=
doesn't, then the rear carb wasn't the problem.<br>
-Roland </p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon=
, Dec 23, 2024, 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailt=
o:healeys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Mich=
ael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, Where is the fuel co=
ming from and what is the cure for the problem? I agree that the fuel is &q=
uot;atomized" in the throttle area and that would be the best conditio=
n to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I cannot find t=
he mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile floats are at the=
top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are bum. Bill Lawrence modified =
his intakes possibly due to fuel issues?=C2=A0 The system on this early car=
(same as yours) is a bit "cruder" than the revised float bowl ve=
nt system (with no manifold drain?). And, I cannot see anything wrong the f=
loat setting as presently set.</div>
<div>The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and the float bowl=
s full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of the jet. Float va=
lves are closed.=C2=A0 Its when the key is on and fuel pressure is applied =
that I am getting the overflow condition. I was hoping that someone else on=
the team has had a similar experience. Hank<br>-------------------- <br><b=
r>From: "Michael Salter" <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmai=
l.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>>=
<br>To: "Hank Leach" <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@charter.net</a>> <br>Cc: &q=
uot;Healey team" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"=
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> <br>Sent: Dece=
mber 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel i=
nto intake drain tube </div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of carb=
urettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet. </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the floa=
t chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is =
only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the j=
et is positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into th=
e airflow and into the inlet manifold. </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">This is all related to <a href=3D"https://www.google.com/search?cl=
ient=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+principle" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">Bernoulli's principle</a> which is the basis upon which a=
ll carburettors work.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running th=
en the mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.</d=
iv>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">M</div>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leac=
h via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100 en=
gines on the web.=C2=A0 Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAI=
N TUBES.=C2=A0 The <em>later </em>engine setups have drain tubes in the lid=
. This includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans).=C2=A0 Also, on these earl=
y designs there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672=C2=A0 which has a =
lower drain in the casing<span style=3D"text-decoration:underline"> up to e=
ngine # 139915</span> (my engine 139563). Of course Moss, etc. only sell th=
e later style products. but some books show the solid float lids and some s=
how vented lids and some show a lid with a drain tube (air vent).</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the f=
loat chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned between =
the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke is =
pulled that jet hole=C2=A0 is lowered to send in, as the British say...&quo=
t;a neat petrol supply" to start the car.</div>
<div>Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet i=
nto the throttle area and into the manifold. <span style=3D"text-decoration=
:underline">Unless the engine is now turning</span> and suction from the pi=
ston is active, the fuel will run haplessly in the intake manifold and out =
the drain tube to the ground. So the important procedure in these early sys=
tems is turn the key and crank the engine <span style=3D"text-decoration:un=
derline">immediately</span> or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube.=
=C2=A0 I'm here testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mo=
de-its not going to do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the =
manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as the =
Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds like=
the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hear =
the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (float=
bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:ynotink@msn.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ynotink@msn.com</a>> <br>To: "Hank Leach via Healeys&qu=
ot; <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>, "Bob Haskell"=
; <<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>>, "richard mayor&qu=
ot; <<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>>, <<a href=3D"mailto:gr=
adea1@charter.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@ch=
arter.net</a>> <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST <br>Subject: R=
e: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have=
to confess I=E2=80=99ve modified the induction system on mine (I know, I=
=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=E2=80=99m a little fuzzy on the details. If=
memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float bowls originally had an open =
vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. The car was built up from =
several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have been correct. About 20 y=
ears ago I built a pair of H6s and installed those with drain tubes. The ca=
r is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary, or maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6=
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">Bill Lawrence</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">BN1 554</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-181060955261783379m_3659040959950062496m_-6618822986480632876=
divRplyFwdMsg"><strong>From:</strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys=
-bounces@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">heal=
eys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> on behalf of Hank Leach via Healeys <=
<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>Sent:</strong> Monda=
y, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Bob Haskell <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"=
_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>>; richard mayor <<a href=3D"mailt=
o:boyracer466@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">boyr=
acer466@gmail.com</a>><br><strong>Cc:</strong> healeys <<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:healeys@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Healeys] o=
verflowing fuel into intake drain tube
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile floa=
ts and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the flo=
at chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each.=C2=A0 I do not have thes=
e overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location) I=
nstead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which allows a=
ir out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom of th=
e carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>"These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (=
and most important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displ=
ace the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely ma=
nner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as th=
ey do when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will b=
e piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the <strong>fuel co=
uld not escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor=
throat into the engine</strong>. With that much liquid gasoline, not all o=
f it will vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize=
will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will =
belch black smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and di=
e."</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls; =
the overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how =
Bill Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overfl=
ows or intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? T=
rapped air? Hank</div>
<div>--------------------=C2=A0<br><br>From: "Bob Haskell" <<a=
href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>> <br>To: <<a href=3D"mailto:g=
radea1@charter.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@c=
harter.net</a>>, "richard mayor" <<a href=3D"mailto:boyrace=
r466@gmail.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@g=
mail.com</a>> <br>Cc: "healeys" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@=
autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox=
.team.net</a>> <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST <br>Subject: R=
e: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube</div>
<p>Hank,</p>
<p>I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not =
plastic.=C2=A0 Supposedly unsinkable.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<pre>Bob Haskell
Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar</pre>
<div>On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div>I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static =
mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston remove=
d, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or as you=
say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs together it=
9;s a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was mad=
e that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I cannot=
tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the peg on the =
valve. When held shut by hand its positive.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pres=
sure on the peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic flo=
ats instead of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float =
and needle valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will =
now start leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (=
next year?) to test that theory.<br>-------------------- <br><br>From: &quo=
t;richard mayor" <a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noope=
ner noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> <boyracer466@gmail.com></a> <br>To=
: "Leach Hank" <a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; rel=3D"noop=
ener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> <gradea1@charter.net></a> <br>Cc:=
"healeys" <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noope=
ner noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> <healeys@autox.team.net></a> <br>S=
ent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowin=
g fuel into intake drain tube <br>Hank,</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in th=
e carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube.=C2=A0 No=
t from the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with th=
is assumption.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float ch=
amber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float level=
is so important.=C2=A0 If fuel is flowing out of =C2=A0the jet before the =
needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your float=
level is set too high.=C2=A0 You need to close the float needle valve with=
the float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and see if that stops the flow.=C2=A0 But then you said you tried di=
fferent settings.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all t=
he way to the top to close the needle valve?=C2=A0 Try a different float. P=
olish the post.=C2=A0 Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting=
that is not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat.=C2=
=A0 I think that=E2=80=99s where the problem is.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br id=3D"m_-181060955261783379m_3659040959950062496m_-661882298648063=
2876x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div>
<div>Richard Mayor</div>
<div><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a></div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote>
<div>On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys <a href=
=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank"> <healeys@autox.team.net></a> wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>=C2=A0I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear c=
arburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple desi=
gn, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is out of=
center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that would=
allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean=
and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and center =
jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-another=
4 hour job.=C2=A0 Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time.=C2=
=A0 Turn on key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many t=
imes-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leaking=
.=C2=A0 I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this=
is a British Car.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with =
carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's t=
wo places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the n=
ext leak could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new par=
ts-jet .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which=
are lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the sam=
e at top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testin=
g stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done out=
side in the rain.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simp=
le brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by forke=
d leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls =
are equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by =
the stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows t=
o a stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do!=C2=A0 Fuel is going=
out and down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to me=
asure the top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't m=
easure the new jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number dr=
ill to see if its round? Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total o=
n them. As far as I know these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss In=
dia knockoffs.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb of=
f for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That&#=
39;s not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Ha=
nk</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href=
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<br>
</blockquote></div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0healeyman=
jim <<a href=3D"mailto:healeymanjim@hansencc.net"; target=3D"_blank">heal=
eymanjim@hansencc.net</a>><br>To:=C2=A0"<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@a=
utox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>" <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.n=
et</a>><br>Cc:=C2=A0<br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:02:=
20 -0800<br>Subject:=C2=A0[Healeys] carb damper<br>ran into something have =
not seen before.=C2=A0 cleaning the carbs on an MGTC and discovered there i=
s no damper.=C2=A0 there is a plastic cap and a 3/16 hole approx 1/4 inch d=
eep in top of piston rod.=C2=A0 Moss shows a damper and so does the worksho=
p manual.=C2=A0 any ideas what i have here?<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0richard m=
ayor <<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">boyrace=
r466@gmail.com</a>><br>To:=C2=A0Roland Wilhelmy <<a href=3D"mailto:se=
ntenac.rw@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sentenac.rw@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc:=
=C2=A0Leach Hank <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k">gradea1@charter.net</a>>, healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox=
.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc:=C2=A0<b=
r>Date:=C2=A0Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:45:44 -0800<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Healeys]=
overflowing fuel into intake drain tube<br><div><div>Hank, =C2=A0Here is t=
he Moss Motors description of the need for the over-flow drain pipes (in th=
e 100M reference):</div><div><br></div><div><div>These pipes are open to th=
e atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and most important) they allow the fu=
el</div><div>coming into the float bowl to displace the air in there so the=
fuel can reach its correct level in a timely</div><div>manner. Second, if =
the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as they do when a bit =
of grit i</div><div>trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will be piped =
out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the fuel</div><div>could no=
t escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor throa=
t into the engine. With</div><div>that much liquid gasoline, not all of it =
will vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize</div=
><div>will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car =
will belch black smoke out the</div><div>tailpipe. The engine will eventual=
ly flood and die. The liquid fuel that reaches the cylinders will flush the=
oil</div><div>off the cylinder walls and wind up in the crankcase. If it h=
appens frequently, the loss of the oil film on the</div><div>cylinder walls=
can cause premature wear. With gas in the sump, the oil is being diluted a=
nd the oil needs</div><div>to be drained and replaced as soon as practical.=
We have heard that under the right conditions, gasoline</div><div>vapors c=
an be ignited in the crankcase with spectacular results, but we are still w=
aiting for pictures.</div></div><br id=3D"m_-181060955261783379lineBreakAtB=
eginningOfMessage"><div>
<div>Richard Mayor</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a></div><div><br></div><br>
</div>
<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 23, 2024, at 4:58=E2=80=AFPM=
, Roland Wilhelmy <<a href=3D"mailto:sentenac.rw@gmail.com"; target=3D"_b=
lank">sentenac.rw@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><p dir=3D"ltr" sty=
le=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-c=
aps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-inde=
nt:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decorat=
ion:none">My BN1 #724, engine number 139756, has no float bowl drain tubes,=
just the red notched washer and chrome vent at the top screw .=C2=A0 I hav=
e never had the problems that you report.=C2=A0 The floats are original.=C2=
=A0 I cleaned and rebuilt with a Moss kit.=C2=A0 If one of my carbs worked =
right and one did not, after replacing all rebuild able parts, I would repl=
ace the malfunctioning carb.=C2=A0 If that fixes things you can explore the=
faulty carb at leisure.=C2=A0 If it doesn't, then the rear carb wasn&#=
39;t the problem.<br>-Roland<span>=C2=A0</span></p><br style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-w=
eight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-trans=
form:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-styl=
e:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On M=
on, Dec 23, 2024, 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:healeys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Mi=
chael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, Where is the fuel =
coming from and what is the cure for the problem? I agree that the fuel is =
"atomized" in the throttle area and that would be the best condit=
ion to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I cannot find=
the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile floats are at t=
he top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are bum. Bill Lawrence modifie=
d his intakes possibly due to fuel issues?=C2=A0 The system on this early c=
ar (same as yours) is a bit "cruder" than the revised float bowl =
vent system (with no manifold drain?). And, I cannot see anything wrong the=
float setting as presently set.</div><div>The fuel is not coming out the j=
et with the key off and the float bowls full to proper level-it is as you s=
aid below the top of the jet. Float valves are closed.=C2=A0 Its when the k=
ey is on and fuel pressure is applied that I am getting the overflow condit=
ion. I was hoping that someone else on the team has had a similar experienc=
e. Hank<br>--------------------<span>=C2=A0</span><br><br>From: "Micha=
el Salter" <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>><span>=C2=A0</span>=
<br>To: "Hank Leach" <<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@charter.net</a>><span>=C2=A0=
</span><br>Cc: "Healey team" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.=
team.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>&g=
t;<span>=C2=A0</span><br>Sent: December 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST<span>=C2=
=A0</span><br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tub=
e<span>=C2=A0</span></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Sorry Hank but I think you have tha=
t wrong.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-=
serif;font-size:small">In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every othe=
r type of carburettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet.<span>=C2=A0<=
/span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled=
by the float chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the=
jet. It is only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge",=
where the jet is positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atom=
ized into the airflow and into the inlet manifold.<span>=C2=A0</span></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">This is all related to<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://www.go=
ogle.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+principle" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Bernoulli's principle</a><span>=C2=A0=
</span>which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">I=
f fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running then the mec=
hanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small=
">=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-=
serif;font-size:small">M</div></div><div>=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank=
Leach via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Ah! A rebel in the crowd.=
I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100 engines on the web.=C2=A0 Many a=
re configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAIN TUBES.=C2=A0 The<span>=C2=A0=
</span><em>later<span>=C2=A0</span></em>engine setups have drain tubes in t=
he lid. This includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans).=C2=A0 Also, on thes=
e early designs there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672=C2=A0 which =
has a lower drain in the casing<span style=3D"text-decoration:underline"><s=
pan>=C2=A0</span>up to engine # 139915</span><span>=C2=A0</span>(my engine =
139563). Of course Moss, etc. only sell the later style products. but some =
books show the solid float lids and some show vented lids and some show a l=
id with a drain tube (air vent).</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>So, in theory t=
he way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the float chamber and ent=
ers the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned between the two gland washer=
s which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke is pulled that jet hole=
=C2=A0 is lowered to send in, as the British say..."a neat petrol supp=
ly" to start the car.</div><div>Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pump=
s in and is moved thru the jet into the throttle area and into the manifold=
.<span>=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"text-decoration:underline">Unless the en=
gine is now turning</span><span>=C2=A0</span>and suction from the piston is=
active, the fuel will run haplessly in the intake manifold and out the dra=
in tube to the ground. So the important procedure in these early systems is=
turn the key and crank the engine<span>=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"text-de=
coration:underline">immediately</span><span>=C2=A0</span>or it will overflo=
w fuel down the drain tube.=C2=A0 I'm here testing the operation of the=
carburetors in a static mode-its not going to do anything but spew fuel to=
the ground. Right?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>The later design using a flo=
at bowl vent tube also send fuel into the manifold but without a drain tube=
the fuel will go into the engine, as the Moss PDF described, diluting the =
oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds like the best method of starting up i=
s to crank the engine as soon as you hear the fuel pump click...I typically=
have waited until the pump stopped (float bowls full) before cranking. Liv=
e and learn?Hank</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div><br>--------------------<span>=
=C2=A0</span><br><br>From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" <<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ynotink@msn.com" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ynotink=
@msn.com</a>><span>=C2=A0</span><br>To: "Hank Leach via Healeys&quo=
t; <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>, "Bob Haskell"=
<<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer"=
target=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>>, "richard mayor&quo=
t; <<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer"=
target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>>, <<a href=3D"mailto:gra=
dea1@charter.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@cha=
rter.net</a>><span>=C2=A0</span><br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM P=
ST<span>=C2=A0</span><br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intak=
e drain tube</div><div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color=
:inherit;background-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-famil=
y:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">I=
=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have to confess I=E2=80=99=
ve modified the induction system on mine (I know, I=E2=80=99m going to Hell=
) and I=E2=80=99m a little fuzzy on the details. If memory serves (a doubtf=
ul premise) the float bowls originally had an open vent arrangement on the =
top with no drain tubes. The car was built up from several dozen boxes of p=
arts, so that may not have been correct. About 20 years ago I built a pair =
of H6s and installed those with drain tubes. The car is a bitsa anyway so o=
riginality is secondary, or maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6</div><div style=3D"font=
-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparen=
t">=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:in=
herit;background-color:transparent">Bill Lawrence</div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent"=
>BN1 554</div><hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:719.734px"><div id=3D=
"m_-181060955261783379m_3659040959950062496m_-6618822986480632876divRplyFwd=
Msg"><strong>From:</strong><span>=C2=A0</span>Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto=
:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> on behalf of Hank Leach via Heal=
eys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>Sent:</stron=
g><span>=C2=A0</span>Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM<br><strong>To:</stro=
ng><span>=C2=A0</span>Bob Haskell <<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink=
.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.net=
</a>>; richard mayor <<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D=
"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>><br><s=
trong>Cc:</strong><span>=C2=A0</span>healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@=
autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox=
.team.net</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong><span>=C2=A0</span>Re: [Heale=
ys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube<div>=C2=A0</div></div><div><div=
>Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile floats a=
nd about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the float c=
hamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each.=C2=A0 I do not have these ov=
erflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location) Inste=
ad the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which allows air o=
ut and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom of the ca=
rb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:</div><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><div>"These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: fi=
rst (and most important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to =
displace the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a time=
ly manner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (=
as they do when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel w=
ill be piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the<span>=C2=
=A0</span><strong>fuel could not escape through the overflow pipe, it would=
pour down the carburetor throat into the engine</strong>. With that much l=
iquid gasoline, not all of it will vaporize before the spark plug fires. Th=
e fuel that does vaporize will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke we=
re engaged) the car will belch black smoke out the tailpipe. The engine wil=
l eventually flood and die."</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>The point here=
is that not having those overflows on the float bowls; the overflow is act=
ually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how Bill Lawrence's=
early car is configured and if he has float bowl overflows or intake overf=
lows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? Trapped air? Hank</d=
iv><div>--------------------=C2=A0<br><br>From: "Bob Haskell" <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>><span>=C2=A0</span><br>To: &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">gradea1@charter.net</a>>, "richard mayor" <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"=
_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>><span>=C2=A0</span><br>Cc: "heale=
ys" <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noopener nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><span>=C2=A0</span>=
<br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST<span>=C2=A0</span><br>Subject: R=
e: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube</div><p>Hank,</p><p>I =
think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not plast=
ic.=C2=A0 Supposedly unsinkable.</p><p>Cheers,</p><pre>Bob Haskell
Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar</pre><div>On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Lea=
ch via Healeys wrote:</div><blockquote><div>I actually cannot figure where =
all the fuel is coming from. In static mode-key off and float bowls at prop=
er level-with dashpot and piston removed, no fuel is apparent (as Michael s=
ays about 1/8" below jet or as you say equal to float setting). Howeve=
r, with key on and carbs together it's a different story-fuel is flowin=
g steadily. The suggestion that was made that we really need to have clear =
plastic float bowls has merit. I cannot tell if the brass float is pushing =
hard enough to shut off the peg on the valve. When held shut by hand its po=
sitive.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>If the float is "heavy", then =
it will not effect enough pressure on the peg to stop the flow. This is why=
someone suggested plastic floats instead of brass. Fuel is the shut off me=
chanism. I have swapped float and needle valves from front to rear carb in =
hopes that the front one will now start leaking. That may be a clue to the =
issue. Waiting for a dry day (next year?) to test that theory.<br>---------=
-----------<span>=C2=A0</span><br><br>From: "richard mayor"<span>=
=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noopener noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank"><boyracer466@gmail.com></a><br>To: "Lea=
ch Hank"<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"><gradea1@charter.net></a><=
br>Cc: "healeys"<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto:healeys@auto=
x.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"><healeys@autox=
.team.net></a><br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST<span>=C2=A0</sp=
an><br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube<span>=
=C2=A0</span><br>Hank,</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>If I read your post corre=
ctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in the carburetor into the intake m=
anifold and then out the drain tube.=C2=A0 Not from the overflow tube on th=
e float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with this assumption.</div><div>=C2=
=A0</div><div>The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the=
float chamber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why fl=
oat level is so important.=C2=A0 If fuel is flowing out of =C2=A0the jet be=
fore the needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then y=
our float level is set too high.=C2=A0 You need to close the float needle v=
alve with the float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, t=
ry 1/2=E2=80=9D and see if that stops the flow.=C2=A0 But then you said you=
tried different settings.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Is there an obs=
truction that is preventing the float from rising all the way to the top to=
close the needle valve?=C2=A0 Try a different float. Polish the post.=C2=
=A0 Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting that is not allow=
ing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat.=C2=A0 I think that=E2=
=80=99s where the problem is.=C2=A0</div><div><br id=3D"m_-1810609552617833=
79m_3659040959950062496m_-6618822986480632876x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessag=
e"><div><div>Richard Mayor</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.co=
m" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a><=
/div><div>=C2=A0</div></div><div><br><blockquote><div>On Dec 22, 2024, at 1=
2:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"mailto=
:healeys@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"><=
healeys@autox.team.net></a><span>=C2=A0</span>wrote:</div><div><div><div=
>=C2=A0I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear carbu=
retor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple design, =
but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is out of cen=
ter and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that would all=
ow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.=C2=A0<div>=
=C2=A0</div><div>No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour jo=
b- and clean and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble=
and center jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel l=
ines-another 4 hour job.=C2=A0 Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the s=
ame time.=C2=A0 Turn on key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.=C2=
=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>I have reset the floats and float needles (b=
rass) were replaced many times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float b=
odies-they are not leaking.=C2=A0 I just cant believe its too much fuel pre=
ssure but then again, this is a British Car.=C2=A0</div></div><div>Float is=
brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with carb cleaner =
while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's two places che=
cked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the next leak coul=
d be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new parts-jet .090. =
Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which are lean tha=
t I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the same at top .089=
, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testing stinks up t=
he garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done outside in the r=
ain.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I do=
n't-- I prefer the simple brass ones with viton tips which do work if p=
ressure is applied by forked leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. W=
ith covers off, both bowls are equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a=
thought as it can push by the stops but its the correct pump and when key =
on clicks fast then slows to a stop... but then tick, tick which it should =
not do!=C2=A0 Fuel is going out and down the drain tube to my swimming pool=
drip pan. Im tempted to measure the top of the needles to see if they are =
really at .089. Can't measure the new jet but its stamped "9"=
Maybe stick in a number drill to see if its round? Mind you, these carbs h=
ave about 125 miles total on them. As far as I know these are "genuine=
SU" parts-not Moss India knockoffs.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>I real=
ly thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb off for that =
reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That's not th=
e problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Hank</div></d=
iv>_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net<span=
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healeys" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;fo=
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:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Un=
subscribe/Manage:<span>=C2=A0</span></span><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net=
/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.com" style=3D"font-family:Helvet=
ica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:4=
00;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:no=
ne;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team=
.net/mailman/options/healeys/boyracer466@gmail.com</a></div></blockquote></=
div><br></div><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=
=C2=A0richard mayor <<a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"=
_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>><br>To:=C2=A0healeymanjim <<a href=
=3D"mailto:healeymanjim@hansencc.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeymanjim@hansen=
cc.net</a>><br>Cc:=C2=A0healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team=
.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Dat=
e:=C2=A0Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:56:44 -0800<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Healeys] carb=
damper<br><div>On occasion I have seen dampers =C2=A0with plastic caps tha=
t have the steel rod protruding through the top of the cap.=C2=A0 This is c=
aused when the engine has backfired through the carburetors and the piston =
and damper are driven upwards. This drives the damper rod through the plast=
ic cap.=C2=A0 You will never see this with the dampers with brass caps.=C2=
=A0<div><br></div><div>I suspect this is what started the issue with your d=
amper before the previous owner made it even worse.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0<=
br id=3D"m_-181060955261783379lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div>
<div>Richard Mayor</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">boyracer466@gmail.com</a></div><div><br></div><br>
</div>
<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 24, 2024, at 9:02=E2=80=AFAM=
, healeymanjim via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div>ra=
n into something have not seen before. =C2=A0cleaning the carbs on an MGTC =
and discovered there is no damper. =C2=A0there is a plastic cap and a 3/16 =
hole approx 1/4 inch deep in top of piston rod.=C2=A0 Moss shows a damper a=
nd so does the workshop manual. =C2=A0any ideas what i have here?<br>______=
_________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href=3D"ht=
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</blockquote></div>
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