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A bit off-topic, but while the bell housing is on the bench it might be
a good idea to install thread inserts in the threaded holes that fix the
slave cylinder bolts. These tend to get bunged-up with repeated R&R of
the slave cylinder, and it's steel bolts into aluminium holes. I don't
think I'd be comfortable with cutting the upper bolt's head off either;
the slave cylinder is secured by tension and if any threads are exposed
this could cause fretting on the slave cylinder hole (probably not an
issue the way our cars are driven now, but over a hundred thousands of
miles or so).
Not mentioned so far is the lever that operates the release bearing; the
shaft on which said lever pivots gets worn over time, allowing some side
play. My BJ8's lever had noticeable side play at over 200K miles; my dad
didn't think it was a big deal, but I figured it would keep me up at
nights if I didn't replace it. It ended up being a bigger job than it
should have been, given the parts available from the 'usual suspect.'
Shipwright's Disease in action.
On 9/19/2021 10:07 PM, m.g.sharp--- via Healeys wrote:
>
> Simon, hate to say it, but the clutch should work perfectly after it
> is installed, there is no â??break-inâ??. The trouble you had getting the
> gâ??box in is troubling. If everything is aligned it should slip in
> easily. I presume, when installing, you put it in gear and rotated
> the drive flange to get the shaft splines to align with the clutch
> plate. Â Â I would never pull it together by winding it on with bolts.
> Â Your description that the graunchy noises when shifting are expensive
> sounding is likely correct, so it sounds to me that the gearbox should
> come out again and a thorough inspection is warranted.
>
> In addition to checking that the clutch disc slides on the first
> motion shaft splines _before _assembly, I also always check that the
> pilot bush fits correctly on the end of the shaft. If these fit
> correctly and the alignment is good, the gâ??box should slip in easily.Â
> Now, you may have to destroy the bush to get it out of the flywheel,
> but they are inexpensive and the peace of mind (never mind the effort
> to re&re the gâ??box again) makes it worthwhile to do. The pilot bearing
> should be lightly greased before assembly â?? I use a molybdenum grease,
> which I also use sparingly on the splines â?? donâ??t put so much on that
> it flies off and contaminates the clutch plate). I agree with Richard
> that a spare first motion shaft is a better alignment tool than a
> plastic substitute.
>
> Also, ensure that the bell housing to engine bolts are correctly
> located. There are two special bolts called â??dowel boltsâ?? (they have
> their own part number that is different to the other bolts) that are
> more precisely machined to locate the bell housing/gearbox accurately
> on the rear engine plate. They can be identified by a shallow groove
> that is machined into the shank just below the head. They go in the
> top left (11 oâ??clock) and bottom right (5:25) holes (looking at the
> rear on the motor). See the note on page 97 of the Originality Guide
> (2018) for a full description. I donâ??t think the workshop manual
> adequately describes these, thinking it is covered under â??replacement
> is the reverse of removalâ??; but you have to be pretty observant to
> note these two bolts on removal!
>
> Three years ago I had an issue with a new Borg&Beck clutch plate and
> had my gâ??box in and out 3 times, so I know how you are feeling, but
> something is wrong and you need to get it right. When it is together
> again, bolt the driverâ??s seat back in and test drive it before putting
> the rest of the interior in; it saves a bit of work if there is a problem.
>
> Lastly, donâ??t cut the head of the top slave cylinder bolt. I can
> guarantee you that if this was acceptable engineering practice the
> accountants at the factory would have insisted it be done. The slave
> cylinder needs to be securely fastened to the bell housing and one
> bolt is not sufficient. I have probably had mine off 4, maybe 5 times
> in 45 years of ownership, so if it takes me an extra 10 minutes to
> remove, so what? If extracting inaccessible bolts is a big issue,
> donâ??t buy an English car! (I just had to re&re the rear drain pipe
> from the intake manifold â?? that is another fun one!).
>
> Good luck! Mirek
>
> *From:*Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net
> via Healeys
> *Sent:* September 19, 2021 7:52 PM
> *To:* Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] New clutch query
>
> My first thought was that if you were having to force the gearbox when
> it was 3 to 4 inches away from home, it may be the spines in the
> clutch disc and the input shaft were causing some interference. This
> should have been an easy slip fit. Did you lubricate the spines?Â
> Test fit the disc on the input shaft? Installing a gearbox should not
> be a tedious affair. Or, you did not get the disc properly aligned
> using the little plastic tool. There is a lot of wiggle room for
> error. I've found that an old input shaft works better than the
> plastic ones for getting good alignment.
>
> That brings me to my next observation. If for some reason the clutch
> disc is hanging up on the input shaft it will not disengage as
> smoothly as it should. Is this your problem? It's not clear to me
> what you mean when you say "difficult clutch".
>
> IÂ have never heard of any need to break-in a clutch.
>
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 2:15 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys
>
> Simon--
>
> I cut the head off one bolt to make it easier to R&R the secondary
> cylinder. I also fashioned a small door in the extension panel to
> give access to the bleed nipple from inside rather than only under
> the car.
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 4:23 PM Simon Lachlan via Healeys
>
> Youâ??ll recall the Overdrive saga. Have decided not to
> commission a TV mini-series per someoneâ??s advice.
>
> 1) The overdrive is in and works very well. I havenâ??t tested
> the pressure yet â?? I will â?? but it clicks in and out very briskly.
>
> 2) The new clutch kit is in. Hard to get the old bits off
> until I borrowed that magic tool. Used the black nylon(?) tool
> from AHSpares as so much handier than the spare original shaft.
>
> 3) Putting the gearbox back in was pretty tedious. It would go
> in all the way except for the last 3 or 4 inches. Took it out
> again and checked the alignment was 100% which it was. Put it
> back in, pushed, shoved and cursed. In the end we wound it on
> with long threaded bolts. I donâ??t want to put in another
> clutch. Ever.
>
> 4) Now, finally, the QUESTIONS:-
>
> Initially, getting the car into any gear was very graunchy and
> really the car would have been undriveable. Pedal pressure
> felt the same as before but nothing was happening except
> expensive noise.
>
> Although there was no evidence of a loss of fluid â?? why would
> there be? â?? I bled the clutch. I have fitted the extension
> tube so it wasnâ??t tricky. That did make a difference but not
> to the way it was previously.
>
> So (1) Is it normal for clutches to be difficult at first? A
> sort of â??breaking-inâ?? period??
>
> (2) Iâ??ll bleed it again but am drawn to getting a longer push
> rod for the slave cylinder. Does that make sense? I do have to
> push the pedal down pretty far. Comments?
>
> (3) Slightly off topic��digging around in my files, I saw a
> suggestion to cut the head off the top bolt that locates the
> slave cylinder. Then to Loctite in permanently for use as a
> dowel peg. ie that bolt is a bit of a PITA and one bolt would
> suffice. Wouldnâ??t it??
>
> All advice would be very welcome,
>
> Simon
>
>
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A bit off-topic, but while the bell housing is on the bench it might
be a good idea to install thread inserts in the threaded holes that
fix the slave cylinder bolts. These tend to get bunged-up with
repeated R&R of the slave cylinder, and it's steel bolts into
aluminium holes. I don't think I'd be comfortable with cutting the
upper bolt's head off either; the slave cylinder is secured by
tension and if any threads are exposed this could cause fretting on
the slave cylinder hole (probably not an issue the way our cars are
driven now, but over a hundred thousands of miles or so).<br>
<br>
Not mentioned so far is the lever that operates the release bearing;
the shaft on which said lever pivots gets worn over time, allowing
some side play. My BJ8's lever had noticeable side play at over 200K
miles; my dad didn't think it was a big deal, but I figured it would
keep me up at nights if I didn't replace it. It ended up being a
bigger job than it should have been, given the parts available from
the 'usual suspect.'<br>
<br>
Shipwright's Disease in action.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/19/2021 10:07 PM, m.g.sharp--- via
Healeys wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Simon,Â
hate to say it, but the clutch should work perfectly after
it is installed, there is no â??break-inâ??. The trouble you
had getting the gâ??box in is troubling. If everything is
aligned it should slip in easily. I presume, when
installing, you put it in gear and rotated the drive flange
to get the shaft splines to align with the clutch plate. Â Â I
would never pull it together by winding it on with bolts.
 Your description that the graunchy noises when shifting are
expensive sounding is likely correct, so it sounds to me
that the gearbox should come out again and a thorough
inspection is warranted.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In
addition to checking that the clutch disc slides on the
first motion shaft splines <u>before </u>assembly, I also
always check that the pilot bush fits correctly on the end
of the shaft. If these fit correctly and the alignment is
good, the gâ??box should slip in easily. Now, you may have to
destroy the bush to get it out of the flywheel, but they are
inexpensive and the peace of mind (never mind the effort to
re&re the gâ??box again) makes it worthwhile to do. The
pilot bearing should be lightly greased before assembly â?? I
use a molybdenum grease, which I also use sparingly on the
splines â?? donâ??t put so much on that it flies off and
contaminates the clutch plate). I agree with Richard that a
spare first motion shaft is a better alignment tool than a
plastic substitute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Also,
ensure that the bell housing to engine bolts are correctly
located. There are two special bolts called â??dowel boltsâ??
(they have their own part number that is different to the
other bolts) that are more precisely machined to locate the
bell housing/gearbox accurately on the rear engine plate.Â
They can be identified by a shallow groove that is machined
into the shank just below the head. They go in the top left
(11 oâ??clock) and bottom right (5:25) holes (looking at the
rear on the motor). See the note on page 97 of the
Originality Guide (2018) for a full description. I donâ??t
think the workshop manual adequately describes these,
thinking it is covered under â??replacement is the reverse of
removalâ??; but you have to be pretty observant to note these
two bolts on removal! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Three
years ago I had an issue with a new Borg&Beck clutch
plate and had my gâ??box in and out 3 times, so I know how you
are feeling, but something is wrong and you need to get it
right. When it is together again, bolt the driverâ??s seat
back in and test drive it before putting the rest of the
interior in; it saves a bit of work if there is a
problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Lastly,
donâ??t cut the head of the top slave cylinder bolt. I can
guarantee you that if this was acceptable engineering
practice the accountants at the factory would have insisted
it be done. The slave cylinder needs to be securely
fastened to the bell housing and one bolt is not
sufficient. I have probably had mine off 4, maybe 5 times
in 45 years of ownership, so if it takes me an extra 10
minutes to remove, so what? If extracting inaccessible
bolts is a big issue, donâ??t buy an English car! (I just had
to re&re the rear drain pipe from the intake manifold â??
that is another fun one!).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Good
luck! Mirek<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>richard mayor via Healeys<br>
<b>Sent:</b> September 19, 2021 7:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Oritt <<a
href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";
moz-do-not-send="true">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] New clutch
query<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My first thought was that if you were
having to force the gearbox when it was 3 to 4 inches away
from home, it may be the spines in the clutch disc and the
input shaft were causing some interference. This should
have been an easy slip fit. Did you lubricate the
spines? Test fit the disc on the input shaft? Â
Installing a gearbox should not be a tedious affair. Or,
you did not get the disc properly aligned using the little
plastic tool. There is a lot of wiggle room for error. Â
I've found that an old input shaft works better than the
plastic ones for getting good alignment.  <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That brings me to my next observation.Â
If for some reason the clutch disc is hanging up on the
input shaft it will not disengage as smoothly as it
should. Is this your problem? It's not clear to me what
you mean when you say "difficult clutch".<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">IÂ have never heard of any need to
break-in a clutch.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 2:15 PM Michael
Oritt via Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#3333FF">Simon--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#3333FF"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#3333FF">I cut
the head off one bolt to make it easier to R&R
the secondary cylinder. I also fashioned a small
door in the extension panel to give access to the
bleed nipple from inside rather than only under the
car.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#3333FF"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#3333FF">Best--Michael
Oritt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 4:23 PM
Simon Lachlan via Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">Youâ??ll recall the Overdrive saga.
Have decided not to commission a TV mini-series
per someoneâ??s advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">1) The overdrive is in and works
very well. I havenâ??t tested the pressure yet â?? I
will â?? but it clicks in and out very
briskly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">2) The new clutch kit is in. Hard
to get the old bits off until I borrowed that
magic tool. Used the black nylon(?) tool from
AHSpares as so much handier than the spare
original shaft. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">3) Putting the gearbox back in was
pretty tedious. It would go in all the way
except for the last 3 or 4 inches. Took it out
again and checked the alignment was 100% which
it was. Put it back in, pushed, shoved and
cursed. In the end we wound it on with long
threaded bolts. I donâ??t want to put in another
clutch. Ever.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">4) Now, finally, the
QUESTIONS:-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">Initially, getting the car into any
gear was very graunchy and really the car would
have been undriveable. Pedal pressure felt the
same as before but nothing was happening except
expensive noise. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">Although there was no evidence of a
loss of fluid â?? why would there be? â?? I bled the
clutch. I have fitted the extension tube so it
wasnâ??t tricky. That did make a difference but
not to the way it was previously.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">So (1) Is it normal for clutches to
be difficult at first? A sort of â??breaking-inâ??
period??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">(2) Iâ??ll bleed it again but am
drawn to getting a longer push rod for the slave
cylinder. Does that make sense? I do have to
push the pedal down pretty far.
Comments?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">(3) Slightly off topic��digging
around in my files, I saw a suggestion to cut
the head off the top bolt that locates the slave
cylinder. Then to Loctite in permanently for use
as a dowel peg. ie that bolt is a bit of a PITA
and one bolt would suffice. Wouldnâ??t it??
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">All advice would be very
welcome,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-GB">Â <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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