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Say, Bob, this is such a complex issue and so much discussion about=0Abl=
eeding over the years. There is no simple solution on any of these=0ABri=
tish cars. The system is minimal for the task required.=0AThe one thing=
about the rusting you mention is actually the "battery=0Aeffect" of two=
dis-similar metals; the alloy cylinder and steel=0Afitting, so the anti=
seize maybe does address that issue thru=0Ainsulation. I have found tha=
t sometimes, unfortunately, only heat will=0Aseparate those components-s=
ame issue with the steel wheel cylinder=0Apiston.=0AI recently wrote thr=
ee articles for the Austin-Healey Magazine titled=0A"Give me a Brake" an=
d the first article, in Feb/Mar issue, deals with=0Athe 100 brakes. The=
second story will be out in the May/June issue=0Aabout masters, and the=
final is about BJ8 boosters.=0AI mentioned a few things in these articl=
es-from bad experience-that=0AI'm sure you also found. I always use a fl=
are nut wrench to try to=0Akeep the flats, and I never attach the cylind=
er hard to its fixing=0Auntil I first cinch up the line...that way I can=
wiggle the unit as it=0Ahand threads so as not to strip it. Those cylin=
ders will strip just to=0Alook at them!=0ASure hope you find the solutio=
n, as that is one of the most fustrating=0Aprocedures on the Healey and=
a good reason why some even sold their=0Arides! Hank=0A=0A=09----------=
-------------------------------From: gradea1@charter.net=0ATo: "Bob Spid=
ell"=0ACc: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE", "Healeys"=0ASent: Sunday April 25 2021=
10:46:12AM=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem=0A=0A Ouh Oh, you=
might be on to something there. The early lines were AF=0Athread, later=
Girling, which could explain the difficulty in=0Afitting.(Taiwan might=
be metric) Don't use teflon tape, it melts with=0Abrake fluid. Use the=
red grease supplied with NOS kits or get some=0Afrom Delco. Anti seize=
as you applied it is ok, but that will only=0Aassist in removing and co=
uld contaminate the fluid, even if carefully=0Aapplied as you did. Use t=
hat on wheel splines. =0A You could be getting air at the threads of tho=
se new cylinders-hard=0Ato see, but if you get any fluid on your finger=
its a sure bet. There=0Amust be an opening to the atmosphere somewhere=
as all suggest. Damn=0Areproduction parts, and even though old and susp=
ect, I like NOS=0AGirling if you can find any. Hank=0A=0A=09------------=
----------------------------- From: "Bob Spidell"=0A To: gradea1@charter=
.net=0A Cc: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE", "Healeys"=0A Sent: Sunday April 25 202=
1 10:23:36AM=0A Subject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem=0A=0A Hank,=0A=
=0A Good point. I'm on record being very 'anti-County,' having had hugel=
y=0Adisruptive failures with their water pumps. The two rears are=0A'no-=
name' so possibly County, and the one front cyl I put in is Moss=0A'Clas=
sic Gold,' so possibly County (IIRC, it said 'Taiwan' on the=0Abox). The=
other three fronts are, AFAIK, original Girling with, yes,=0Aprobably s=
eal kits from Moss (we redid the brakes during restoration,=0Aand IIRC m=
y dad did most of the work*). I'm loathing having to pull a=0Afront drum=
and re-pack, shim etc. again but will do so if no other=0Asolution work=
s (I've already checked the rears for leaks). I did use a=0A'no-name' re=
ar cyl on my BJ8, but so far it's given me no issues (that=0AI know of).=
=0A=0A *Side note: When I went to install one of the new rear cylinders=
the=0Afitting would not go in easily, even though I was extremely caref=
ul=0Anot to cross-thread. Thinking I got a cyl with a bunged thread I=0A=
ordered another, and had the same problem! I finally realized that=0Awhe=
n my dad rebuilt the brake system he used new steel lines, but=0Alikely=
re-used the (steel) fittings (correct fittings are available,=0Abut not=
common). On close inspection, the threads of the fitting were=0Arust-co=
lored, and even when tested on the bench did not want to screw=0Ain as e=
asily as they should have. Even a thin coat of rust presents=0Ahigh resi=
stance to torquing so I've taken to putting a VERY thin=0Aapplication of=
high-temp anti-seize on the threads ONLY (I can hear=0Athe howls of 'he=
resy!' and "you're gonna die!" already ;). I use less=0Athan a BB in siz=
e of anti-seize and put it nowhere near the sealing=0Asurface, so contam=
ination of the fluid, seal failures, etc. is=0Aunlikely (I know of some=
owners who use teflon tape, but I could see=0Athat conceivably posing a=
problem). Not only should this prevent=0Arust-galling of steel-steel th=
reads, it should make the fittings much=0Aeasier to remove, so rounding=
out the nut is less likely. Seizing due=0Ato rust shouldn't be an issue=
with cupro-nickel lines and brass=0Afittings. As usual, the interwebs a=
re in violent disagreement on the=0Asubject (examples):=0A=0A [1]=0A[2]=
https://www.camaros.net/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/=0A[=
3]=0A=0A [4]=0A[5]https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brak=
e-line-fittings.174299/=0A[6]=0A=0A Bob=0A=0AOn 4/25/2021 9:49 AM, grade=
a1@charter.net wrote:=0A Bob-one troublesome word you mentioned in relat=
ion to the wheel=0Acylinders is "new." These must be the County Brand...=
spelled China. If=0Ayou did get lucky, and they are good cylinders, what=
about the other=0Athree for the front? Rebuilt with Moss kits? I have s=
een the problem=0Awith the seals being incorrect for the bore. For insta=
nce, on a Sprite=0Amaster, one push of the pedal stuck the seal in the r=
ear of the casing=0Aand never again to function. Replacement parts today=
are to be suspect=0Ain an obscure issue like you are having. Sad Healey=
tales..Hank=0A=0A=09----------------------------------------- From: "Bo=
b Spidell"=0A To: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE", "Healeys"=0A Cc:=0A Sent: Saturd=
ay April 24 2021 6:45:43PM=0A Subject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem=
=0A=0A (non) progress report:=0A=0A Thinking Bill probably had the expla=
nation, I clamped off the RF flex=0Aline--the wheel I'd replaced the cyl=
inder on--per Michael's suggestion=0Aand, Voila!, a nice hard pedal. Thi=
nking also that I hadn't expelled a=0Abubble, like Bill also suggested,=
I increased the pressure on my=0Apressure bleeding rig and bled all whe=
els again. Still, a nice hard=0Apedal, so I fired up my BJ8 to get it ou=
t of the garage so I could=0Apressure wash the undercarriage of the BN2=
and take it (BJ8) for a=0Awarm-up spin. Halfway around the 'block,' abo=
ut 5 miles from home it=0Astarted running very rough so I pulled into a=
covid-closed restaurant=0Aparking lot and popped the bonnet; coolant al=
l over the passenger side=0Aof the engine bay. It appears the gasket und=
er the brass shut-off=0Avalve for the heater hoses sprung a leak, so a c=
all to AAA was in=0Aorder. After getting the BJ8 flat-bedded home I wash=
ed the 100's=0Aunderside, put on the new wheels and tires and hop in ..=
brake pedal=0Agoes to the floor! Since I could get some brakes if I pum=
ped the pedal=0Aa couple times I took a chance on a short, abridged spin=
around a=0Asmaller block--the new wheels and tires ride fantastic, and=
no=0A'scuttle shake' detected--then parked it.=0A=0A Thanks for all the=
suggestions, folks. I meant to try the=0A'hold-the-pedal-to-the-floor-w=
ith-a-board' technique, but by EOD I was=0Aso beat I forgot. I've had tr=
ouble bleeding brakes on the BJ8, but the=0ABN2 has generally cooperated=
until now. Damned if I can explain why I=0Acan get a good hard pedal, w=
hich proceeds to go soft from just=0Asitting. Good thing I love these ca=
rs.=0A=0A Bob=0A=0AOn 4/23/2021 9:06 PM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE wrote:=0A =
The problem with the double leading edge brakes on the 100s and=0A100-6=
s is that the bleeder screw is at a low point in the system so it=0Atake=
s a little extra effort expel any entrained air. You probably got=0Aa pr=
etty good slug when you changed the wheel cylinder. Probably keep=0Ablee=
ding that wheel and use various techniques until you find the one=0Athat=
actually moves the air out of the bleeder. =0A Bill Lawrence BN1 #55=
4 =0A-------------------------=0AFROM: Healeys on behalf of Bob Spidell=
via Healeys =0ASENT: Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:04 AM=0ATO: Healeys =0A=
SUBJECT: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem Listers,=0A=0A I have a problem=
with my BN2's brakes that is driving (heh) me up the=0A wall. Here's wh=
at I've done:=0A=0A - new shoes and cylinders in both rear wheels=0A - o=
ne new cylinder in one front wheel (there's a total of 4 in the 2=0A fro=
nt wheels)=0A - new master cylinder=0A=0A I hadn't touched the M/C, so a=
fter all the installs I just pressure=0Abled=0A as I usually do (this ha=
s worked well on my BJ8 for decades and a=0Acouple=0A times for the BN2)=
. At first, I got decent pedal then, after a period=0Aof=0A time I lost=
it; the pedal would go to the floor with only slight=0A pressure (proba=
bly from the return springs). Thinking it could only=0Abe=0A the M/C, I=
sprung for a new TRW brand M/C but after installing it and=0A bleeding=
I got the same results. I've put 2 full quarts of Castrol's=0A finest '=
synthetic' DoT4 through the system and tried vacuum bleeding=0Aand=0A ol=
d-fashioned 'pump and hold' method; same result for all methods.=0AI'm=
=0A not losing fluid as far as I can tell, and the pedal will pump up a=
=0Abit=0A with a half-dozen or so strokes, but will go back to the floor=
after=0A some time.=0A=0A Any and all ideas and suggestions accepted an=
d welcomed.=0A=0A TIA,=0A Bob=0A _______________________________________=
________=0A=0A =0A=0ALinks:=0A------=0A[1]=0Ahttps://www.camaros.net/thr=
eads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/=0A[2]=0Ahttps://www.camaros.ne=
t/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/=0A[3]=0Ahttps://www.camar=
os.net/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/=0A[4]=0Ahttps://www.=
hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.174299/=0A[5]=
=0Ahttps://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.=
174299/=0A[6]=0Ahttps://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-l=
ine-fittings.174299/=0A
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<html><body>Say, Bob, this is such a complex issue and so much discussio=
n about bleeding over the years. There is no simple solution on an=
y of these British cars. The system is minimal for the task required.<di=
v><br></div><div>The one thing about the rusting you mention is actually=
the "battery effect" of two dis-similar metals; the alloy cylinder and=
steel fitting, so the anti seize maybe does address that issue thru ins=
ulation. I have found that sometimes, unfortunately, only heat will sepa=
rate those components-same issue with the steel wheel cylinder piston.</=
div><div><br></div><div>I recently wrote three articles for the Austin-H=
ealey Magazine titled "Give me a Brake" and the first article, in =
Feb/Mar issue, deals with the 100 brakes. The second story will b=
e out in the May/June issue about masters, and the final is about BJ8 bo=
osters.</div><div><br></div><div>I mentioned a few things in these artic=
les-from bad experience-that I'm sure you also found. I always use=
a flare nut wrench to try to keep the flats, and I never attach the cyl=
inder hard to its fixing until I first cinch up the line...that way I ca=
n wiggle the unit as it hand threads so as not to strip it. Those cylind=
ers will strip just to look at them!</div><div><br></div><div>Sure hope=
you find the solution, as that is one of the most fustrating procedures=
on the Healey and a good reason why some even sold their rides! Hank<br=
><br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div><p>-----------------------=
------------------</p>From: gradea1@charter.net<br>To: "Bob Spidell"<br>=
Cc: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE", "Healeys"<br>Sent: Sunday April 25 2021 10:46:=
12AM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem<br><br>=0AOuh Oh, you m=
ight be on to something there. The early lines were AF=0Athread, later G=
irling, which could explain the difficulty in=0Afitting.(Taiwan might be=
metric) Don't use teflon tape, it melts=0Awith brake fluid. Use t=
he red grease supplied with NOS kits=0Aor get some from Delco. Anti seiz=
e as you applied it is ok, but=0Athat will only assist in removing and c=
ould contaminate the fluid,=0Aeven if carefully applied as you did. Use=
that on wheel splines.=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>You could be getting ai=
r at the threads of those new=0Acylinders-hard to see, but if you get an=
y fluid on your finger its=0Aa sure bet. There must be an opening to the=
atmosphere somewhere as=0Aall suggest.</div>=0A<div>Damn reproduction p=
arts, and even though old and suspect, I=0Alike NOS Girling if you can f=
ind any. Hank<br><br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div>=0A<p>----=
-------------------------------------</p>=0AFrom: "Bob Spidell"<br>=0ATo=
: gradea1@charter.net<br>=0ACc: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE", "Healeys"<br>=0ASe=
nt: Sunday April 25 2021 10:23:36AM<br>=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Bra=
ke Problem<br><br>=0AHank,<br><br>=0AGood point. I'm on record being ver=
y 'anti-County,' having had=0Ahugely disruptive failures with their wate=
r pumps. The two rears=0Aare 'no-name' so possibly County, and the=
one front cyl I put=0Ain is Moss 'Classic Gold,' so possibly County (II=
RC, it said=0A'Taiwan' on the box). The other three fronts are, AFAIK, o=
riginal=0AGirling with, yes, probably seal kits from Moss (we redid the=
=0Abrakes during restoration, and IIRC my dad did most of the work*).=0A=
I'm loathing having to pull a front drum and re-pack, shim etc.=0Aagain=
but will do so if no other solution works (I've already=0Achecked the r=
ears for leaks). I did use a 'no-name' rear cyl on my=0ABJ8, but so far=
it's given me no issues (that I know of).<br><br>=0A*Side note: When I=
went to install one of the new rear cylinders=0Athe fitting would not g=
o in easily, even though I was extremely=0Acareful not to cross-thread.=
Thinking I got a cyl with a bunged=0Athread I ordered another, and had=
the same problem! I finally=0Arealized that when my dad rebuilt the bra=
ke system he used new=0Asteel lines, but likely re-used the (steel) fitt=
ings (correct=0Afittings are available, but not common). On close inspec=
tion, the=0Athreads of the fitting were rust-colored, and even when test=
ed on=0Athe bench did not want to screw in as easily as they should have=
.=0AEven a thin coat of rust presents high resistance to torquing so=0AI=
've taken to putting a VERY thin application of high-temp=0Aanti-seize o=
n the threads ONLY (I can hear the howls of 'heresy!'=0Aand "you're gonn=
a die!" already ;). I use less than a BB in=0Asize of anti-seize a=
nd put it nowhere near the sealing surface, so=0Acontamination of the fl=
uid, seal failures, etc. is unlikely (I know=0Aof some owners who use te=
flon tape, but I could see that=0Aconceivably posing a problem). Not onl=
y should this prevent=0Arust-galling of steel-steel threads, it should m=
ake the fittings=0Amuch easier to remove, so rounding out the nut is les=
s likely.=0ASeizing due to rust shouldn't be an issue with cupro-nickel=
lines=0Aand brass fittings. As usual, the interwebs are in violent=0Adi=
sagreement on the subject (examples):<br><br><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-fr=
eetext" href=3D"https://www.camaros.net/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-fitt=
ings.462049/">=0A</a><a href=3D"https://www.camaros.net/threads/anti-sei=
ze-on-brake-fittings.462049/"></a><a href=3D"https://www.camaros.net/thr=
eads/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/">https://www.camaros.net/threa=
ds/anti-seize-on-brake-fittings.462049/</a><br><br><a class=3D"moz-txt-l=
ink-freetext" href=3D"https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-b=
rake-line-fittings.174299/">=0A</a><a href=3D"https://www.hotrodders.com=
/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.174299/"></a><a href=3D"https=
://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.174299/"=
>https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/anti-seize-on-brake-line-fittings.17=
4299/</a><br><br>=0ABob<br><br><div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 4/25/20=
21 9:49 AM, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated">gradea1@charter.net</a=
> wrote:<br></div>=0A<blockquote>Bob-one troublesome word you mentioned=
in relation to=0Athe wheel cylinders is "new." These must be the County=
=0ABrand...spelled China. If you did get lucky, and they are good=0Acyli=
nders, what about the other three for the front? Rebuilt=0Awith Mo=
ss kits? I have seen the problem with the seals being=0Aincorrect for th=
e bore. For instance, on a Sprite master, one=0Apush of the pedal=
stuck the seal in the rear of the casing and=0Anever again to function.=
Replacement parts today are to be=0Asuspect in an obscure issue l=
ike you are having. Sad Healey=0Atales..Hank<br><br><p>-----------------=
------------------------</p>=0AFrom: "Bob Spidell"<br>=0ATo: "WILLIAM B=
LAWRENCE", "Healeys"<br>=0ACc:<br>=0ASent: Saturday April 24 2021 6:45:=
43PM<br>=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem<br><br>=0A(non) prog=
ress report:<br><br>=0AThinking Bill probably had the explanation, I cla=
mped off the RF=0Aflex line--the wheel I'd replaced the cylinder on--per=
Michael's=0Asuggestion and, Voila!, a nice hard pedal. Thinking also th=
at I=0Ahadn't expelled a bubble, like Bill also suggested, I increased t=
he=0Apressure on my pressure bleeding rig and bled all wheels again.=0AS=
till, a nice hard pedal, so I fired up my BJ8 to get it out of the=0Agar=
age so I could pressure wash the undercarriage of the BN2 and=0Atake it=
(BJ8) for a warm-up spin. Halfway around the 'block,' about=0A5 miles f=
rom home it started running very rough so I pulled into a=0Acovid-closed=
restaurant parking lot and popped the bonnet; coolant=0Aall over the pa=
ssenger side of the engine bay. It appears the=0Agasket under the brass=
shut-off valve for the heater hoses sprung a=0Aleak, so a call to AAA w=
as in order. After getting the BJ8=0Aflat-bedded home I washed the 100's=
underside, put on the new=0Awheels and tires and hop in .. brake pedal=
goes to the floor! Since=0AI could get some brakes if I pumped the peda=
l a couple times I took=0Aa chance on a short, abridged spin around a sm=
aller block--the new=0Awheels and tires ride fantastic, and no 'scuttle=
shake'=0Adetected--then parked it.<br><br>=0AThanks for all the suggest=
ions, folks. I meant to try the=0A'hold-the-pedal-to-the-floor-with-a-bo=
ard' technique, but by EOD I=0Awas so beat I forgot. I've had trouble bl=
eeding brakes on the BJ8,=0Abut the BN2 has generally cooperated until n=
ow. Damned if I can=0Aexplain why I can get a good hard pedal, which pro=
ceeds to go soft=0Afrom just sitting. Good thing I love these cars.<br><=
br>=0ABob<br><br><div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 4/23/2021 9:06 PM, WI=
LLIAM B=0ALAWRENCE wrote:<br></div>=0A<blockquote>=0A<div style=3D"font-=
family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">=
=0AThe problem with the double leading edge brakes on the 100s and=0A100=
-6s is that the bleeder screw is at a low point in the system so=0Ait ta=
kes a little extra effort expel any entrained air. You=0Aprobably got a=
pretty good slug when you changed the wheel=0Acylinder. Probably keep b=
leeding that wheel and use various=0Atechniques until you find the one t=
hat actually moves the air out=0Aof the bleeder.</div>=0A<div style=3D"f=
ont-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0=
);">=0A<br></div>=0A<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-s=
erif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">=0ABill Lawrence</div>=0A<div sty=
le=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rg=
b(0,0,0);">=0ABN1 #554</div>=0A<hr style=3D"width:98%;"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><font style=3D"font-size:11pt;" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#=
000000"><b>From:</b> Healeys=0A<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><he=
aleys-bounces@autox.team.net></a>=0Aon behalf of Bob Spidell via Heal=
eys <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><healeys@autox.team.net></a=
><br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:04 AM<br><b>To:</b> Healeys=
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><healeys@autox.team.net></a><b=
r><b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] BN2 Brake Problem</font>=0A<div> </div>=
=0A</div>=0A<div class=3D"BodyFragment">=0A<div class=3D"PlainText"><fon=
t size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">Listers,<br><br>=0AI have a=
problem with my BN2's brakes that is driving (heh) me up=0Athe<br>=0Awa=
ll. Here's what I've done:<br><br>=0A- new shoes and cylinders in both r=
ear wheels<br>=0A- one new cylinder in one front wheel (there's a total=
of 4 in the=0A2<br>=0Afront wheels)<br>=0A- new master cylinder<br><br>=
=0AI hadn't touched the M/C, so after all the installs I just pressure=
=0Abled<br>=0Aas I usually do (this has worked well on my BJ8 for decade=
s and a=0Acouple<br>=0Atimes for the BN2). At first, I got decent pedal=
then, after a=0Aperiod of<br>=0Atime I lost it; the pedal would go to t=
he floor with only=0Aslight<br>=0Apressure (probably from the return spr=
ings). Thinking it could only=0Abe<br>=0Athe M/C, I sprung for a new TRW=
brand M/C but after installing it=0Aand<br>=0Ableeding I got the same r=
esults. I've put 2 full quarts of=0ACastrol's<br>=0Afinest 'synthetic' D=
oT4 through the system and tried vacuum=0Ableeding and<br>=0Aold-fashion=
ed 'pump and hold' method; same result for all methods.=0AI'm<br>=0Anot=
losing fluid as far as I can tell, and the pedal will pump up a=0Abit<b=
r>=0Awith a half-dozen or so strokes, but will go back to the floor=0Aaf=
ter<br>=0Asome time.<br><br>=0AAny and all ideas and suggestions accepte=
d and welcomed.<br><br>=0ATIA,<br>=0ABob<br>=0A_________________________=
______________________<br></span></font></div>=0A</div>=0A</blockquote>=
=0A<br></blockquote>=0A<br></div>=0A</div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
--===============7363989697197534967==--
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