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Re: [Healeys] Healeys Digest, Vol 14, Issue 142

To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Healeys Digest, Vol 14, Issue 142
From: David P <frogeye@porterscustom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:18:21 -0600
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
References: <mailman.5.1618682403.26764.healeys@autox.team.net> <1590869023.3456730.1618702579901@mail.yahoo.com> <1959093511.3621729.1618786496615@mail.yahoo.com>
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Current engine thinking is to move the wrist pin closer to the top of 
the piston and to reduce the length of the piston (shorter skirts) and 
zero quench (piston rises above the deck level). The 5th oil control 
ring served the purpose of (oil control) and also to minimize piston 
slap on the cylinder wall as the piston reversed direction leading to 
cylinder wall ovalization and subsequent loss of compression. Dave

On 4/18/2021 4:54 PM, Michael MacLean via Healeys wrote:
> I don't know about the six cylinder engines, but during the rebuild of 
> my BN2 engine I used 3 ring pistons from Moss.  Not exactly the most 
> exclusive examples of piston technology, but the very experienced 
> engine builder that built my shot block for me said they will do just 
> fine.  Heck I don't even remember seeing an oil scraper ring on them.  
> Not an expert, but could the way the bottom ring was ground to shape 
> have an oil scraping purpose?
> Mike MacLean
> Out of my five vehicles, only one has a catalytic converter.  Take 
> that Greta Thunberg.
>
> Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android 
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>     On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 4:37 PM, William Atterbury via Healeys
>     <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>     Hey Ian,
>     The rumor I heard was that the 5th ring was for hone-and-replace
>     rebuilds to reduce oil consumption.  I'll let others comment if
>     these cars were fitted with 4 or 5 rings from the factory (I'm
>     guessing 4).  I rebuilt mine with 4, like the others.  Not a
>     problem for our coddled Healeys.  Heck, I even know of one fellow
>     who only put in three for a hot motor.
>
>     Bill Atterbury
>     BT7
>
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Message: 1
>     Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 19:08:56 +0100
>     From: "Ian Hey" <rianhey@btinternet.com
>     Subject: [Healeys] To fit or not to fit
>     Message-ID: <002201d732eb$915662a0$b40327e0$@btinternet.com>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>     In a recent engine rebuild of a standard BJ7 engine which was
>     fitted with
>     four ring pistons, when I looked at replacement pistons they were
>     pictured
>     with five rings, which did not seem good to me.
>
>     I fitted Omega pistons from Denis Welch.  These have three rings
>     with a
>     total width of 3.2mm compared with 9.8mm for the four rings. (For
>     the oil
>     rings only the width contacting the cylinder bore is measured
>
>     Since friction is in proportion to ring width (possibly due to the
>     lower
>     pressure required to make thinner rings seat against the cylinder
>     wall) this
>     represents a reduction in losses to heat and a power increase (small).
>
>     Another, much more expensive, option for consideration.  I also
>     have no
>     doubts about the quality of the pistons, whereas I am not sure
>     about the
>     four or five ringed replacements.  They seem very cheap to me.
>
>     Ian
>
>     _______________________________________________
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>
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-- 
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 505-352-1378 My World 
go here: WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/


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    <p>Current engine thinking is to move the wrist pin closer to the
      top of the piston and to reduce the length of the piston (shorter
      skirts) and zero quench (piston rises above the deck level). The
      5th oil control ring served the purpose of (oil control) and also
      to minimize piston slap on the cylinder wall as the piston
      reversed direction leading to cylinder wall ovalization and
      subsequent loss of compression. Dave<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/18/2021 4:54 PM, Michael MacLean
      via Healeys wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1959093511.3621729.1618786496615@mail.yahoo.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      I don't know about the six cylinder engines, but during the
      rebuild of my BN2 engine I used 3 ring pistons from Moss.  Not
      exactly the most exclusive examples of piston technology, but the
      very experienced engine builder that built my shot block for me
      said they will do just fine.  Heck I don't even remember seeing an
      oil scraper ring on them.  Not an expert, but could the way the
      bottom ring was ground to shape have an oil scraping purpose?
      <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1618786399393">Mike MacLean </div>
      <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1618786421646">Out of my five
        vehicles, only one has a catalytic converter.  Take that Greta
        Thunberg.<br>
        <br>
        <div id="ymail_android_signature"><a
            id="ymail_android_signature_link"
href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&amp;c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&amp;af_wl=ym&amp;af_sub1=Internal&amp;af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&amp;af_sub3=EmailSignature";
            moz-do-not-send="true">Sent from AT&amp;T Yahoo Mail on
            Android</a></div>
        <br>
        <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 20px 0;">
          <div style="font-family:Roboto, sans-serif; color:#6D00F6;">
            <div>On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 4:37 PM, William Atterbury via
              Healeys</div>
            <div><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" 
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>&lt;healeys@autox.team.net&gt;</a> 
wrote:</div>
          </div>
          <div style="padding: 10px 0 0 20px; margin: 10px 0 0 0;
            border-left: 1px solid #6D00F6;">
            <div id="yiv5269241550">
              <div>
                <div class="yiv5269241550ydpf5e37345yahoo-style-wrap"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                  sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Hey Ian,</div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">The rumor I heard
                        was that the 5th ring was for hone-and-replace
                        rebuilds to reduce oil consumption.  I'll let
                        others comment if these cars were fitted with 4
                        or 5 rings from the factory (I'm guessing 4).  I
                        rebuilt mine with 4, like the others.  Not a
                        problem for our coddled Healeys.  Heck, I even
                        know of one fellow who only put in three for a
                        hot motor.</div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Bill Atterbury</div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">BT7</div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, 
sans-serif;">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Message: 1<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Date: Fri, 16 Apr
                        2021 19:08:56 +0100<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">From: "Ian Hey"
                        &lt;<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
                          ymailto="mailto:rianhey@btinternet.com";
                          target="_blank"
                          href="mailto:rianhey@btinternet.com";
                          style="color:rgb(25, 106,
                          212);text-decoration-line:underline;"
                          
moz-do-not-send="true">rianhey@btinternet.com</a>&gt;<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">To: &lt;<a
                          rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
                          ymailto="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
                          target="_blank"
                          href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
                          style="color:rgb(25, 106,
                          212);text-decoration-line:underline;"
                          
moz-do-not-send="true">healeys@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Subject:
                        [Healeys] To fit or not to fit<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Message-ID:
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" 
href="mailto:002201d732eb$915662a0$b40327e0$@btinternet.com";>&lt;002201d732eb$915662a0$b40327e0$@btinternet.com&gt;</a><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Content-Type:
                        text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">In a recent
                        engine rebuild of a standard BJ7 engine which
                        was fitted with<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">four ring
                        pistons, when I looked at replacement pistons
                        they were pictured<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">with five rings,
                        which did not seem good to me.<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">I fitted Omega
                        pistons from Denis Welch.  These have three
                        rings with a<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">total width of
                        3.2mm compared with 9.8mm for the four rings. 
                        (For the oil<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">rings only the
                        width contacting the cylinder bore is measured</div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Since friction is
                        in proportion to ring width (possibly due to the
                        lower<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">pressure required
                        to make thinner rings seat against the cylinder
                        wall) this<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">represents a
                        reduction in losses to heat and a power increase
                        (small).<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Another, much
                        more expensive, option for consideration.  I
                        also have no<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">doubts about the
                        quality of the pistons, whereas I am not sure
                        about the<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">four or five
                        ringed replacements.  They seem very cheap to
                        me.<br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                        Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Ian</div>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 505-352-1378 My World 
go here: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="http://WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/";>WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/</a></pre>
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