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True - but the current draw would not be subtle. It truly happens occasional=
ly and always lets the smoke out.
Alan - from my iPad
> On 8 Jun 2019, at 05:30, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <ynotink@msn.com> wrote:
>=20
> " I don't think a generator could behave like this..."
>=20
> Actually a generator will act exactly like this if the cutout circuit of t=
he regulator (control box for the purists among us) fails in the closed posi=
tion.
>=20
> Bill Lawrence
> BN1 #554
> From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <b=
spidell@comcast.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2019 3:34 AM
> To: healeys@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Electric Draw
> =20
> OK, folks, I gotta eat crow. I'd never heard of it before, but I got to t=
hinking about it and realized that alternator diodes are a direct path to th=
e battery, and I did some research:
>=20
> " A leaky diode also can allow current to drain out of the battery through=
the alternator when the vehicle is not being driven."
>=20
> - https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/starting-and-charging/=
starters-and-alternators-common-misdiagnosis/
>=20
> In my experience, diodes fail open, sort of like fuses, but if one failed s=
hort--or 'leaked'--it could draw current from the battery. I think the way=
to test for this would be to disconnect the alternator->battery lead and se=
e if the current draw ceases (or charge the battery to a known voltage, disc=
onnect the alternator, and see if the battery remains charged overnight). I=
don't think a generator could behave like this, but I'm gonna think about i=
t before I press 'send' before I've had my second cup of coffee.
>=20
> My apologies to all (including the OP's mechanic).
>=20
> Bob
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 6/7/2019 9:09 AM, Bob Spidell wrote:
>> Uh, I'm not an electrical engineer--but I play one on email lists--but it=
sounds like your mechanic isn't one either (not uncommon). The diodes in a=
n alternator perform the same function as the brushes and commutator in a ge=
nerator; i.e. they rectify the alternating current--produced by rotating an e=
lectromagnet--into DC current, which your battery requires for charging and a=
ll your accessories require to, well, accessorize. Hence, they aren't doing=
squat when the engine isn't running--when there should be no current coming=
to the alternator to energize the rotor--and if you had a short somewhere a=
nd your alternator was getting current with the engine stopped it would like=
ly heat up (see if your alternator feels warm after sitting overnight). Dio=
des can fail by either shorting out or opening up; most alternators have 6 o=
f them and when one fails by opening up you lose one-sixth of your charging a=
bility (I'd have to research it, but as solid state devices--sort of one-thi=
rd of a transistor--they probably mostly fail by opening up as the silicon j=
unctions are relatively fragile). I'm not sure if it's an open or shorted d=
iode that causes it--maybe both--but with a bad diode you will get all kinds=
of radio noise, which varies with engine speed (when I used to fly light ai=
rcraft you could tell when someone had a bad diode with serious noise in rad=
io transmissions).
>>=20
>> Others have offered good suggestions so I'll just add that it's conceivab=
le your ignition switch is worn allowing some current flow when in the 'off'=
position (after all, it's Lucas ;)). See if it feels warm after sitting fo=
r a while (in fact, if you can get to them see if any of the electrical devi=
ces in your car feel warmer than ambient after sitting in the shade). Your b=
attery ground doesn't pull a load--something has to draw current that the gr=
ound cable returns to the battery--so it isn't the problem. A nearly half-a=
mp current draw in a 12V system will produce 6 watts of heat (nearly half of=
what a 60W equivalent CFL light rated at 13W will generate).
>>=20
>> Bob
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On 6/7/2019 6:13 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>> Real Healeys don't have alternators.=F0=9F=A4=A3=F0=9F=A4=A3=F0=9F=A4=A3=
=F0=9F=A4=A3
>>>=20
>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 8:55 AM Per Schoerner, <per@schoerner.se> wrote:
>>> It sounds more like your cutout switch is the culprit here.
>>>=20
>>> Per
>>>=20
>>> Skickat fr=C3=A5n min iPhone
>>>=20
>>> > 7 juni 2019 kl. 14:47 skrev R. Lindsay <050.rpl@gmail.com>:
>>> >=20
>>> > For the past few weeks I have been fighting a parasitic draw on my BJ8=
. It was running about .48 amps and would drain my battery in a day or so. I=
was told by a mechanic that a diode in my alternator must have blown theref=
ore causing the draw. He also mentioned that my ground wires in the boot wer=
e loose which he tightened. I brought the car home, turned off the power in t=
he boot and 2 days later the battery was dead.=20
>>> >=20
>>> > So, here=E2=80=99s what I=E2=80=99ve done. I jumped the battery and st=
arted the car and ran it for 10 minutes. I disconnected the charger and test=
ed the battery - 12.48 volts. I then removed the cutoff switch and bolted th=
e grounding wires together. I tested for a draw and got a zero reading. That=
was last night. I went out this morning (12 hours later) and the battery re=
ads 12.33 volts.=20
>>> >=20
>>> > My questions are 1. Is .15 volts a reasonable drop in voltage for a si=
tting car in 90 degree heat and 2. Can a diode in an alternator work sometim=
es and not at others. If it=E2=80=99s either =E2=80=9Cgood or bad=E2=80=9D a=
ll the time, I guess I need to presume the alternator is not the source of t=
he draw. If a .15 volt loss over 12 hours is reasonable then removing the cu=
t out switch in conjunction with presuming the alternator is good (as it wor=
ks fine now) solved my problem.=20
>>> >=20
>>> > What does the wisdom of this great resource think?
>>> >=20
>>> > Price Lindsay
>>>=20
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Healeys@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/blueheal=
ey@gmail.com
>=20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">True - but the current draw would not be su=
btle. It truly happens occasionally and always lets the smoke out.<div><br><=
div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Alan - from my iPad</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br>On 8 Jun 2019, at 05:30, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <<a href=3D"mailto:=
ynotink@msn.com">ynotink@msn.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
"<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(32, 31, 30); color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-f=
amily: "Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "=
;Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica N=
eue", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)=
; display: inline !important"><span> </span>I
don't think a generator could behave like this..."</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(32, 31, 30); color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-fa=
mily: "Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "=
Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica N=
eue", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)=
; display: inline !important"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(32, 31, 30); color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-fa=
mily: "Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "=
Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica N=
eue", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)=
; display: inline !important">Actually
a generator will act exactly like this if the cutout circuit of the regulat=
or (control box for the purists among us) fails in the closed position.</spa=
n></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(32, 31, 30); color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-fa=
mily: "Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "=
Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica N=
eue", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)=
; display: inline !important"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(32, 31, 30); color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-fa=
mily: "Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "=
Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica N=
eue", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)=
; display: inline !important">Bill
Lawrence</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(32, 31, 30); color: rgb(32, 31, 30); font-fa=
mily: "Segoe UI", "Segoe UI Web (West European)", "=
Segoe UI", -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, "Helvetica N=
eue", sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)=
; display: inline !important">BN1
#554</span></div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Healeys <<a href=3D"=
mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>=
; on behalf of Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspid=
ell@comcast.net</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 8, 2019 3:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net<=
/a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Electric Draw</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style=3D"background-color:#FFFFFF">
<p>OK, folks, I gotta eat crow. I'd never heard of it before, but I go=
t to thinking about it and realized that alternator diodes are a direct path=
to the battery, and I did some research:</p>
<p><i>"</i><i> A leaky diode also can allow current to drain out of the batt=
ery through the alternator when the vehicle is not being driven."</i></p>
<p><i>- </i><a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.knowyou=
rparts.com/technical-resources/starting-and-charging/starters-and-alternator=
s-common-misdiagnosis/">https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/st=
arting-and-charging/starters-and-alternators-common-misdiagnosis/</a></p>
<p>In my experience, diodes fail open, sort of like fuses, but if one failed=
short--or 'leaked'--it could draw current from the battery. I t=
hink the way to test for this would be to disconnect the alternator->batt=
ery lead and see if the current draw ceases
(or charge the battery to a known voltage, disconnect the alternator, and s=
ee if the battery remains charged overnight). I don't think a generato=
r could behave like this, but I'm gonna think about it before I press 'send'=
before I've had my second cup of
coffee.<br>
</p>
<p>My apologies to all (including the OP's mechanic).</p>
<p>Bob</p>
<p><br>
<i></i></p>
<div class=3D"x_moz-cite-prefix">On 6/7/2019 9:09 AM, Bob Spidell wrote:<br>=
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p>Uh, I'm not an electrical engineer--but I play one on email lists--but it=
sounds like your mechanic isn't one either (not uncommon). The diodes=
in an alternator perform the same function as the brushes and commutator in=
a generator; i.e. they rectify the
alternating current--produced by rotating an electromagnet--into DC current=
, which your battery requires for charging and all your accessories require t=
o, well, accessorize. Hence, they aren't doing squat when the engine i=
sn't running--when there should be
no current coming to the alternator to energize the rotor--and if you had a=
short somewhere and your alternator was getting current with the engine sto=
pped it would likely heat up (see if your alternator feels warm after sittin=
g overnight). Diodes can fail
by either shorting out or opening up; most alternators have 6 of them and w=
hen one fails by opening up you lose one-sixth of your charging ability (I'd=
have to research it, but as solid state devices--sort of one-third of a tra=
nsistor--they probably mostly
fail by opening up as the silicon junctions are relatively fragile). I=
'm not sure if it's an open or shorted diode that causes it--maybe both--but=
with a bad diode you will get all kinds of radio noise, which varies with e=
ngine speed (when I used to fly light
aircraft you could tell when someone had a bad diode with serious noise in r=
adio transmissions).</p>
<p>Others have offered good suggestions so I'll just add that it's conceivab=
le your ignition switch is worn allowing some current flow when in the 'off'=
position (after all, it's Lucas ;)). See if it feels warm after sitti=
ng for a while (in fact, if you can
get to them see if any of the electrical devices in your car feel warmer th=
an ambient after sitting in the shade). Your battery ground doesn't pu=
ll a load--something has to draw current that the ground cable returns to th=
e battery--so it isn't the problem.
A nearly half-amp current draw in a 12V system will produce 6 watts of heat=
(nearly half of what a 60W equivalent CFL light rated at 13W will generate)=
.<br>
</p>
<p>Bob</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class=3D"x_moz-cite-prefix">On 6/7/2019 6:13 AM, Michael Salter wrote:<=
br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"auto">Real Healeys don't have alternators.=F0=9F=A4=A3=F0=9F=A4=A3=
=F0=9F=A4=A3=F0=9F=A4=A3</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 8:55 AM Per Sch=
oerner, <<a href=3D"mailto:per@schoerner.se";>per@schoerner.se</a>> wro=
te:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0
.8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
It sounds more like your cutout switch is the culprit here.<br>
<br>
Per<br>
<br>
Skickat fr=C3=A5n min iPhone<br>
<br>
> 7 juni 2019 kl. 14:47 skrev R. Lindsay <<a href=3D"mailto:050.rpl@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">050.rpl@gmail.com</a>>:<br>=
> <br>
> For the past few weeks I have been fighting a parasitic draw on my BJ8.=
It was running about .48 amps and would drain my battery in a day or so. I w=
as told by a mechanic that a diode in my alternator must have blown therefor=
e causing the draw. He also mentioned
that my ground wires in the boot were loose which he tightened. I brought t=
he car home, turned off the power in the boot and 2 days later the battery w=
as dead.
<br>
> <br>
> So, here=E2=80=99s what I=E2=80=99ve done. I jumped the battery and sta=
rted the car and ran it for 10 minutes. I disconnected the charger and teste=
d the battery - 12.48 volts. I then removed the cutoff switch and bolted the=
grounding wires together. I tested for a draw and
got a zero reading. That was last night. I went out this morning (12 hours l=
ater) and the battery reads 12.33 volts.
<br>
> <br>
> My questions are 1. Is .15 volts a reasonable drop in voltage for a sit=
ting car in 90 degree heat and 2. Can a diode in an alternator work sometime=
s and not at others. If it=E2=80=99s either =E2=80=9Cgood or bad=E2=80=9D al=
l the time, I guess I need to presume the alternator is
not the source of the draw. If a .15 volt loss over 12 hours is reasonable t=
hen removing the cut out switch in conjunction with presuming the alternator=
is good (as it works fine now) solved my problem.
<br>
> <br>
> What does the wisdom of this great resource think?<br>
> <br>
> Price Lindsay<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>________=
_______________________________________</span><br><span>Support <a href=3D"h=
ttp://Team.Net">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>htt=
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nbsp;$12.75</span><br><span></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.=
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