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All of the cone surfaces should be lubricated, as well as the splines, =
otherwise you will pretty quickly see fretting of the surfaces. This =
involves transfer of metal from one surface to the other when two =
surfaces are highly loaded (such as by the clamping force of the =
knockoff) and move relative to each other. You will always have some =
small degree of movement. Fretting reduces the fatigue resistance of =
the metal.
=20
Steve Byers
HBJ8L/36666
BJ8 Registry
AHCA Delegate at Large
Havelock, NC USA
=20
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Roger =
Grace
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 6:54 PM
To: J. Armour; healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Splines and Wheels
=20
All good points and noted.
I am now of the opinion that when the spline play appears to be reduced =
by tightening the knock on it is really just clamping it against the =
rear cone. This surely must be a good thing eliminating the play and =
providing some resistance before the splines come into play. So, =
notwithstanding what Dave said about grease I will keep the rear cones =
dry. There should be no movement so need for any lubrication. The =
splines only should be greased to to prevent sticking. See link to MWS =
site on this topic.
Also to assist tightening the knock nut, on will grease the outside cone =
lightly.=20
rg
=20
http://www.mwsint.com/site/cms/contentCategoryView.asp?category=3D214
=20
=20
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 3:17 PM
To: healeys@autox.team.net=20
Subject: [Healeys] Splines and Wheels
=20
Blokes
I firmly believe that only the splines do the transmission of =
acceleration and braking torque. The knock-off clamps the wheel in place =
and the two cones within the wheel hub/splines centralises the wheel. I =
once had a knock-off come off and the wheel still turned with the hub =
and slowed under braking.
Splines require the minimum of clearance to eliminate the fretting =
caused when the wheel rocks back and forward on the hub. You can =
purchase an anti-fretting grease.
I agree that it is almost impossible to eliminate clearance within the =
the spline to spline fit otherwise we would not be able to remove them =
easily.
A loose knock-off allows the wheel to become off centre and then with =
each rotation the wheel will 'walk' or rotate on a different centre to =
the hub/axle centre. The splines with their clearance will not keep the =
wheel centralised due to the built in clearance. This will create =
excessive wear on both sets of splines.
I also agree that the Left and Right hand thread system is to =
counter-act wheels coming loose but I find it hard to accept that this =
system will tighten an already loose knock-off. It is also important to =
tighten wheels with NO weight on them that is with the wheel raised off =
the ground. This allows the wheel to easily centralise on the =
cones/tapers before final hammer tightening. Remember if you do not have =
a flat spot on the top of the splines you have worn or badly made =
splines. Also it is unwise to expect a long life from the splines when =
new are fitted to old (worn)
The manufacturing process of the axle hub =E2=80=93 machined, and the =
softer wheel centre hub splines maybe made with a broaching process =
raises the question of which component will be manufactured more =
accurately. Their fit and clearance is critical to their life. Material =
hardness is also important and lubrication adds value.
Over the years I have seen some radical home-made fixes for worn splines =
down to no splines.
Your comments
_____ =20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/roggrace@telus.net
_____ =20
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6173 / Virus Database: 4457/10964 - Release Date: =
11/07/15
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>All =
of the cone surfaces should be lubricated, as well as the splines, =
otherwise you will pretty quickly see fretting of the surfaces.=C2=A0 =
This involves transfer of metal from one surface to the other when two =
surfaces are highly loaded (such as by the clamping force of the =
knockoff) and move relative to each other.=C2=A0 You will always have =
some small degree of movement.=C2=A0 Fretting reduces the fatigue =
resistance of the metal.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic =
Sans MS";color:#002060'>Steve Byers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic =
Sans MS";color:#002060'>HBJ8L/36666<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic =
Sans MS";color:#002060'>BJ8 Registry<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic =
Sans MS";color:#002060'>AHCA Delegate at Large<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic =
Sans MS";color:#002060'>Havelock, NC USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Comic =
Sans MS";color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Roger Grace<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 09, 2015 6:54 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> J. Armour; healeys@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [Healeys] Splines and Wheels<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:black'>All good points and =
noted.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>I am now of the =
opinion that when the spline play appears to be reduced by tightening =
the knock on it is really just clamping it against the rear cone. This =
surely must be a good thing eliminating the play and providing some =
resistance before the splines come into play. So, notwithstanding what =
Dave said about grease I will keep the rear cones dry. There should be =
no movement so need for any lubrication. The splines only should be =
greased to to prevent sticking. See link to MWS site on this =
topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>Also to assist =
tightening the knock nut, on will grease the outside cone lightly. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:black'>rg<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:black'><a =
href=3D"http://www.mwsint.com/site/cms/contentCategoryView.asp?category=3D=
214" =
title=3D"http://www.mwsint.com/site/cms/contentCategoryView.asp?category=3D=
214">http://www.mwsint.com/site/cms/contentCategoryView.asp?category=3D21=
4</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<a href=3D"mailto:sebring3000@bigpond.com"; =
title=3D"sebring3000@bigpond.com">J. Armour</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Sent:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Saturday, November 7, 2015 3:17 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
To:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
title=3D"healeys@autox.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Subject:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
[Healeys] Splines and =
Wheels<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Blokes<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I firmly =
believe that only the splines do the transmission of acceleration and =
braking torque. The knock-off clamps the wheel in place and the two =
cones within the wheel hub/splines centralises the wheel. I once had a =
knock-off come off and the wheel still turned with the hub and slowed =
under braking.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Splines require =
the minimum of clearance to eliminate the fretting caused when the wheel =
rocks back and forward on the hub. You can purchase an anti-fretting =
grease.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I agree that it =
is almost impossible to eliminate clearance within the the spline to =
spline fit otherwise we would not be able to remove them =
easily.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>A loose =
knock-off allows the wheel to become off centre and then with each =
rotation the wheel will 'walk' or rotate on a different centre to the =
hub/axle centre. The splines with their clearance will not keep the =
wheel centralised due to the built in clearance. This will create =
excessive wear on both sets of =
splines.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I also agree =
that the Left and Right hand thread system is to counter-act wheels =
coming loose but I find it hard to accept that this system will tighten =
an already loose knock-off. It is also important to tighten wheels with =
NO weight on them that is with the wheel raised off the ground. This =
allows the wheel to easily centralise on the cones/tapers before final =
hammer tightening. Remember if you do not have a flat spot on the top of =
the splines you have worn or badly made splines. Also it is unwise to =
expect a long life from the splines when new are fitted to old =
(worn)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>The =
manufacturing process of the axle hub =E2=80=93 machined, and the softer =
wheel centre hub splines maybe made with a broaching process raises the =
question of which component will be manufactured more accurately. Their =
fit and clearance is critical to their life. Material hardness is also =
important and lubrication adds value.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Over the years =
I have seen some radical home-made fixes for worn splines down to no =
splines.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Your =
comments<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=3D2 =
width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>________________=
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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
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