Re: [Fot] TR6 Race Clutch Release Bearing - Annular or Standard Slave Cylinder?

[Ponostyle via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>]

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Yes, leaks are feasible, though I never had a problem. The benefits of =
annular bearings are substantial=E2=80=94self-adjusting, no radial =
thrust. Properly set up they are a very neat solution. But yes, you take =
a chance of leaking.=20

> On Aug 19, 2024, at 6:35=E2=80=AFAM, Robert Lang via Fot =
<fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I'll jump in again...
>=20
> Yes, real production cars have been using annular bearings for a long =
time. No question. Retrofitting these t/o bearings to our cars can have =
issues.
>=20
> You don't have to mess up the dimensions very much to wind up with a =
problem.
>=20
> There aren't any bolt-in setups that I've had my hands on. I'd be =
prone to trust the Vitesse setup (Miata gears in a NEW case and =
bellhousing) as that is a bolt-in. But I haven't had my hands on one, so =
no data point. As I recall, one of the issues with the aftermarket =
setups is matching the input shaft housing to the aftermarket part. I'll =
go out on a limb and suggest that if you're not a machinist or you have =
access to a  really knowlegable machinist, there are ways to screw it =
up.
>=20
> Regarding clutches - not everyone runs a racing clutch. I use OEM =
style clutches because I'm not trying to spin the engine like a rotary =
etc. And I don't build for 3x OEM power. All this is for reliability vs =
max performance. Also, even with the stock setup, there are ways to =
screw it up and folks will blame the parts rather than an improper =
installation... because you can. For example, I've fixed a lot of TR6 =
clutch problems just by using the proper alignment bolts - this occurs =
pretty frequently... probably 30% of the cars that I've worked on.
>=20
> So, part of the discussion is related to how you will be using the =
setup, e.g. "real vintage" or "real racing" and then go from there. =
Racing philosophy also plays into this. And it is possible to make the =
stock stuff work well and reliably without a lot of engineering.
>=20
> Just my "tuppence".
>=20
> Regards.
> Bob Lang
>=20
> On Monday, August 19, 2024 at 09:14:16 AM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot =
<fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> I'm amazed to hear all of these stories of bad experiences.
>=20
> Many production cars and race cars have used these for years.  Saab =
used them for ~40 years.
> Many aftermarket manufacturers make them.  Tilton, QuarterMaster, =
PowerTrain, ...
>=20
> Are people using poor quality units, or are they being installed =
incorrectly?
>=20
> Remember that aftermarket/race clutches often require 50-100% more =
force to disengage than the stock clutch, especially the smaller units.
>=20
> Has anyone observed or measured the twist and bend on the stock cross =
shaft when paired with a race clutch?
> I guess if your bushings are worn enough, then the assembly can =
tolerate this distortion.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> From: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Mike Harmuth via =
Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2024 8:01 AM
> To: Bert Brown <moosehd2@pacbell.net>
> Cc: Friends of Triumph Group Email <fot@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Race Clutch Release Bearing - Hydraulic or =
Standard wSlave Cylinder?
> =20
> Sebring 2020, internal throwout bearing leaking.
>=20
> <P1015303.JPG>
>=20
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 1:14=E2=80=AFAM Bert Brown via Fot =
> I was just at the Monterey Historics this weekend hanging out with 2 =
racer friends and one of their friends pops into our pit space with the =
news that his internal hydraulic release bearing leaked in the Friday =
session and the clutch was inoperable.  He had a Cobra and pulling a =
trans in one of those cars is an absolute bitch!  He wanted to know what =
our experience was with these bearings and if we had a replacement.  =
Everyone said they have had many problems with hydraulic leaks with =
these internal release bearings and "no", they didn't have a spare. =20
>=20
> Everyone's vote at our pit was to use the external linkage and slave =
cylinder.  When I used to go to the track with my car I always carried =
spare hydraulics and the external cylinder on my Spit was a snap to =
change.
>=20
> By the way the Cobra guy couldn't find a replacement at the track and =
loaded his car on his trailer and missed his race.  All because of a =
damn internal hydraulic release bearing that he never thought he would =
have to replace!  Racing is fun!
>=20
> Bert Brown
> ex GP Spitfire
>=20
> On Sunday, August 18, 2024 at 07:59:48 PM PDT, Charly via Fot =
>=20
>=20
> Mark, I have always run the 'stock' style T.O. bearing.  I've run =
several different clutches, from Laycock to Tilton, and have always had =
good luck with it.
> I've known several TR racers who have used the 'hydraulic' type  =
mechanism and have always had problems at the track and have been =
difficult if not impossible to fix.
> My vote is the stock linkage and a Tilton clutch,
> BTW, car is still for sale.
> Charly Mitchel
> TR6 #44
>=20
> On Sun 18/08/24  7:05 PM , Mark Cook via Fot fot@autox.team.net =
> > So, I one of my TR6s has a close ratio transmission with Mcleod =
hydraulic
> > release bearing, which is leaking.  While there, trying to decide on
> > whether to go back to a stock bearing, yoke etc, with an external =
slave
> > cylinder.  For reference, as part of the engine rebuild, going with =
the
> > Racetorations Arrow billet crank, 7 1/4" lightweight flywheel, cover
> > and four paddle clutch disc.
> > Not keen on having to remove the transmission for seal leaks related =
to the
> > hydraulic release bearing.  At the same time not familiar enough to =
know if
> > a hydraulic release bearing's failure rate is any worse than a =
standard
> > release bearing.  Everything I have read makes the hydraulic bearing =
seem
> > more sensitive to initial set up as well.
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark Cook
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > team.net <http://team.net/>
> > http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: =
http://autox.team.net/archive
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
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>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive =
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> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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>=20
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> _______________________________________________
>=20
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>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Yes, leaks are =
feasible, though I never had a problem. The benefits of annular bearings =
are substantial=E2=80=94self-adjusting, no radial thrust. Properly set =
up they are a very neat solution. But yes, you take a chance of =
leaking.&nbsp;<br =
id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Aug 19, 2024, at 6:35=E2=80=AFAM, Robert Lang via =
Fot &lt;fot@autox.team.net&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div><div =
class=3D"ydpd1b2149dyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Hi,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">I'll jump in again...</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Yes, real production cars have been using annular =
bearings for a long time. No question. Retrofitting these t/o bearings =
to our cars can have issues.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">You=
 don't have to mess up the dimensions very much to wind up with a =
problem.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">There aren't any bolt-in setups that =
I've had my hands on. I'd be prone to trust the Vitesse setup (Miata =
gears in a NEW case and bellhousing) as that is a bolt-in. But I haven't =
had my hands on one, so no data point. As I recall, one of the issues =
with the aftermarket setups is matching the input shaft housing to the =
aftermarket part. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that if you're not a =
machinist or you have access to a&nbsp; really knowlegable machinist, =
there are ways to screw it up.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Regarding clutches - not everyone runs a racing =
clutch. I use OEM style clutches because I'm not trying to spin the =
engine like a rotary etc. And I don't build for 3x OEM power. All this =
is for reliability vs max performance. Also, even with the stock setup, =
there are ways to screw it up and folks will blame the parts rather than =
an improper installation... because you can. For example, I've fixed a =
lot of TR6 clutch problems just by using the proper alignment bolts - =
this occurs pretty frequently... probably 30% of the cars that I've =
worked on. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">So, part of the discussion is related =
to how you will be using the setup, e.g. "real vintage" or "real racing" =
and then go from there. Racing philosophy also plays into this. And it =
is possible to make the stock stuff work well and reliably without a lot =
of engineering.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Just my "tuppence".</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Regards.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Bob Lang<br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yahoo_quoted_4810112133" =
class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                        On Monday, August 19, 2024 at 09:14:16 AM EDT, =
Anthony Parker via Fot &lt;fot@autox.team.net&gt; wrote:
                    </div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><br></div>
               =20
               =20
                <div><div id=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302"><div =
dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
I'm amazed to hear all of these stories of bad experiences.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
Many production cars and race cars have used these for years.&nbsp; Saab =
used them for ~40 years.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
Many aftermarket manufacturers make them.&nbsp; Tilton, QuarterMaster, =
PowerTrain, ...</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
Are people using poor quality units, or are they being installed =
incorrectly?</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
Remember that aftermarket/race clutches often require 50-100% more force =
to disengage than the stock clutch, especially the smaller units.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
Has anyone observed or measured the twist and bend on the stock cross =
shaft when paired with a race clutch?</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
I guess if your bushings are worn enough, then the assembly can tolerate =
this distortion.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
12pt;" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302elementToProof">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div id=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%;" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302yqt50719" =
class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302yqt4391177287"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
id=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302divRplyFwdMsg"><font face=3D"Calibri, =
sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;"><b>From:</b> Fot =
&lt;fot-bounces@autox.team.net&gt; on behalf of Mike Harmuth via Fot =
&lt;fot@autox.team.net&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 19, 2024 8:01 AM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>To:</b> Bert Brown &lt;moosehd2@pacbell.net&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Cc:</b> Friends of Triumph Group Email &lt;fot@autox.team.net&gt;<br =
clear=3D"none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] TR6 Race Clutch Release Bearing - Hydraulic or =
Standard wSlave Cylinder?</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Sebring 2020, internal throwout bearing leaking.
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div><span id=3D"cid:ChY41JpxwfxdjfgBNKhb">&lt;P1015303.JPG&gt;</span><br =
clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302x_gmail_attr">On Mon, =
Aug 19, 2024 at 1:14=E2=80=AFAM Bert Brown via Fot &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" =
class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302x_gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I was just at the Monterey Historics this weekend =
hanging out with 2 racer friends and one of their friends pops into our =
pit space with the news that his internal hydraulic release bearing =
leaked in the Friday session and the clutch was inoperable.&nbsp;
 He had a Cobra and pulling a trans in one of those cars is an absolute =
bitch!&nbsp; He wanted to know what our experience was with these =
bearings and if we had a replacement.&nbsp; Everyone said they have had =
many problems with hydraulic leaks with these internal release
 bearings and "no", they didn't have a spare.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Everyone's vote at our pit was to use the external =
linkage and slave cylinder.&nbsp; When I used to go to the track with my =
car I always carried spare hydraulics and the external cylinder on my =
Spit was a snap to change.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">By the way the Cobra guy couldn't find a replacement at =
the track and loaded his car on his trailer and missed his race.&nbsp; =
All because of a damn internal hydraulic release bearing that he never =
thought he would have to replace!&nbsp; Racing is fun!</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Bert Brown</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">ex GP Spitfire</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
<div =
id=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yiv2133546302x_m_7337924335680464926yahoo_quoted_44091926=
95">
<div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42);">
<div>On Sunday, August 18, 2024 at 07:59:48 PM PDT, Charly via Fot =
&lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:
</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Mark, I have always run the 'stock' style T.O. =
bearing.&nbsp; I've run several different clutches, from Laycock to =
Tilton, and have always had good luck with it.<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I've known several TR racers who have used the =
'hydraulic' type&nbsp; mechanism and have always had problems at the =
track and have been difficult if not impossible to fix.<br clear=3D"none">=

</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">My vote is the stock linkage and a Tilton clutch, <br =
clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">BTW, car is still for sale.<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Charly Mitchel<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">TR6 #44<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun 18/08/24&nbsp; 7:05 PM , Mark Cook via Fot <a =
shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">
fot@autox.team.net</a> sent:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; So, I one of my TR6s has a close ratio =
transmission with Mcleod hydraulic<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; release bearing, which is leaking.&nbsp; While =
there, trying to decide on<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; whether to go back to a stock bearing, yoke etc, =
with an external slave<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; cylinder.&nbsp; For reference, as part of the =
engine rebuild, going with the<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Racetorations Arrow billet crank, 7 1/4" =
lightweight flywheel, cover<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; and four paddle clutch disc. <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Not keen on having to remove the transmission for =
seal leaks related to the<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; hydraulic release bearing.&nbsp; At the same time =
not familiar enough to know if<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; a hydraulic release bearing's failure rate is any =
worse than a standard<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; release bearing.&nbsp; Everything I have read =
makes the hydraulic bearing seem<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; more sensitive to initial set up as well.<br =
clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Thoughts?<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Thanks,<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Mark Cook<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; _______________________________________________<br =
clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox."; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.</a><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://team.net/"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">=

http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage</a>: <a shape=3D"rect"=
 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ch"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ch</a><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"mailto:arly@mitchelplumbing.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">arly@mitchelplumbing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">_______________________________________________<br =
clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br =
clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br =
clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br clear=3D"none">=

</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/moosehd2@pacbell.net"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/moosehd2@pacbell.net</a><br =
clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br clear=3D"none">
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer@gmail.com"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer@gmail.com</a><br =
clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div></div>
</div></div><div class=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yqt4391177287" =
id=3D"ydpff2eb6c5yqt60702">_______________________________________________=
<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br =
clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br =
clear=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br =
clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6@yahoo.com"=
 rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6@=
yahoo.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none"></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div><span =
id=3D"cid:ChY41JpxwfxdjfgBNKhb">&lt;P1015303.JPG&gt;</span>_______________=
________________________________<br>fot@autox.team.net<br><br>http://www.f=
ot-racing.com<br><br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Archive: =
http://autox.team.net/archive =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com<br><br><br></=
div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot



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