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This brings to mind a lesson learned the hard way. Diaphragm pressure plates=
need to be mated with the correct configuration throwout bearing. The fing=
ers on the plate want to roll on the throwout bearing. If the fingers are st=
raight, the bearing needs to have a curved surface. If the fingers are curve=
d, then a flat faced throwout bearing will work. If a flat faced bearing is u=
sed with flat fingers, there could be a very sudden movement and engagement a=
s the fingers transition across the face of the bearing from the inside to o=
utside edge.
Depending on the set up and initial orientation of all parts, this may or ma=
y not happen in any particular case.
I did not raise the issue when Nick first asked for opinions, as the Duke of=
Oil=E2=80=99s problem happened all of a sudden.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 22, 2020, at 9:42 PM, Ponostyle via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:=
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFI switched to a radial bearing to solve a similar issue with Peyo=
te. For a while I was using a quartermaster dual plate rally clutch and it w=
as like a switch with the standard throwout bearing. I fiddled with several t=
hings to try to make it work more progressively, but the only thing that rea=
lly helped was ditching the standard setup and going radial. Unfortunately t=
hey take some fiddling since it=E2=80=99s easier to overstroke the clutch an=
d break it, but once you get that sorted it=E2=80=99s much more controllable=
.=20
>=20
>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:38 PM, Nick Black via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrot=
e:
>>=20
>> The crank is good and the thrust washers were perfect (the engine is out f=
or a refresh).
>> The diff has been run for years so I assume everything was happy in it un=
til this clutch fiasco broke it.
>>=20
>> As an olde partner of mine used to say "I've been uptown and downtown, se=
en Tobacco Road twice and thought I seen it all...but I ain't never seen thi=
s"
>>=20
>> Everything I have looked at was well within spec and looked good and I wa=
s pretty sure nothing had been "fixed" so far. As depression had set in I sa=
t and contemplated everything and a good thing too as I noticed what I thoug=
ht was an optical illusion. It appeared as the throwout bearing sleeve (the n=
ose cone on the trans) was pointed down! It was difficult to measure, but at=
the end closest to the pplate it was pointed down about 100 thou toward the=
ground.It "looked" like the gap twixt input shaft and the inside of the sle=
eve was about 1/8" at the top and about 1/4" gap at the bottom!!!
>>=20
>> The sleeve appears to be straight, the input bearing flush to the case an=
d the sleeve tight to the case. So, how would the sleeve not be parallel to t=
he input shaft? I even reseated the input bearing to be sure it was tight t=
o the case and not "cocked". This trans case does not show any cracks and ha=
s been on the car for 20 years without any issues.
>>=20
>> Don't know how this could occur or if it would cause this issue but its n=
ot right. Looks like I need to get another case out of the shed and exchange=
pieces.
>>=20
>>=20
>> I do some of my best work while it looks like I'm just sittin there in No=
rCal
>> Nick
>>=20
>> PS If we ever get back on track this year, we'll see if we caught it and I=
'll let you know.
>> Thanks for thinking about this
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot@autox.team.net
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponost=
yle.com
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol=
.com
>=20
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">This brings to mind a lesson learned the ha=
rd way. Diaphragm pressure plates need to be mated with the correct configur=
ation throwout bearing. The fingers on the plate want to roll on the t=
hrowout bearing. If the fingers are straight, the bearing needs to have a cu=
rved surface. If the fingers are curved, then a flat faced throwout bearing w=
ill work. If a flat faced bearing is used with flat fingers, there could be a=
very sudden movement and engagement as the fingers transition across the fa=
ce of the bearing from the inside to outside edge.<div>Depending on the set u=
p and initial orientation of all parts, this may or may not happen in any pa=
rticular case.</div><div>I did not raise the issue when Nick first asked for=
opinions, as the Duke of Oil=E2=80=99s problem happened all of a sudden.</d=
iv><div>Phil<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Apr 22, 2020, at 9:42 PM, Ponostyle via =
Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" con=
tent=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">I switched to a radial bearing to solve a=
similar issue with Peyote. For a while I was using a quartermaster dual pla=
te rally clutch and it was like a switch with the standard throwout bearing.=
I fiddled with several things to try to make it work more progressively, bu=
t the only thing that really helped was ditching the standard setup and goin=
g radial. Unfortunately they take some fiddling since it=E2=80=99s easier to=
overstroke the clutch and break it, but once you get that sorted it=E2=80=99=
s much more controllable. <br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:38 PM, Nick=
Black via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; class=3D"">fot@auto=
x.team.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div c=
lass=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">The crank is good and the thrust wash=
ers were perfect (the engine is out for a refresh).</div><div dir=3D"ltr" da=
ta-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">The diff has been run for years so I assume e=
verything was happy in it until this clutch fiasco broke it.</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">As an olde partner of mine used to say "I'=
ve been uptown and downtown, seen Tobacco Road twice and thought I seen it a=
ll...but I ain't never seen this"</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false=
" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" cla=
ss=3D"">Everything I have looked at was well within spec and looked good and=
I was pretty sure nothing had been "fixed" so far. As depression had set in=
I sat and contemplated everything and a good thing too as I noticed what I t=
hought was an optical illusion. It appeared as the throwout bearing sleeve (=
the nose cone on the trans) was pointed down! It was difficult to measure, b=
ut at the end closest to the pplate it was pointed down about 100 thou towar=
d the ground.It "looked" like the gap twixt input shaft and the inside of th=
e sleeve was about 1/8" at the top and about 1/4" gap at the bottom!!!</div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">The sleeve appears to be straigh=
t, the input bearing flush to the case and the sleeve tight to the case. So,=
how would the sleeve not be parallel to the input shaft? I even resea=
ted the input bearing to be sure it was tight to the case and not "cocked". T=
his trans case does not show any cracks and has been on the car for 20 years=
without any issues.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">=
<br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">Don't=
know how this could occur or if it would cause this issue but its not right=
. Looks like I need to get another case out of the shed and exchange pieces.=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">I do some of my best work whil=
e it looks like I'm just sittin there in NorCal</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-s=
etdir=3D"false" class=3D"">Nick</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" c=
lass=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D=
"">PS If we ever get back on track this year, we'll see if we caught it and I=
'll let you know.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">Tha=
nks for thinking about this</div></div></div>_______________________________=
________________<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; class=3D=
"">fot@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">http://www.fot-racing=
.com<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br=
class=3D"">Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/fot<br class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/opt=
ions/fot/bill@ponostyle.com<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></di=
v></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><span>__________________________________=
_____________</span><br><span>fot@autox.team.net</span><br><span></span><br>=
<span>http://www.fot-racing.com</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Archive: http://autox.team.net/=
archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage=
: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com</span><br><span=
></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=
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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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